Author Topic: Pot, Meet the Kettle  (Read 7242 times)

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TurtleDove

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Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
« Reply #30 on: February 02, 2014, 08:05:07 PM »
POD Millionaire Maria.

JenJay

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Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
« Reply #31 on: February 02, 2014, 08:32:15 PM »
The whole thing put me off about her giving advice to anyone is how she has so little respect for herself. Justin is a train wreck, too, don't get me wrong.

OK, some of you have argued that she is doing all of this stuff in her career - but riding a wrecking ball nude in a video, and that whole twerking thing was just... so sad. So go ahead, Justin, and party at home, but running around naked and simulating sex in public is OK because it's her *career*?

How do you know she doesn't respect herself? Just because she doesn't travel by the same moral compass as you doesn't mean she doesn't respect herself.

I agree. And actually she seems to respect herself quite a bit. I get that "It's okay if you don't like me, I'm still going to be who I am." vibe from her. I can't relate to her choices but I don't condemn her for them. I don't think she's out to hurt anybody, unlike a lot if the "It's all about me so give me what I want." garbage you see so much of in a lot of celebrities.

Yvaine

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Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
« Reply #32 on: February 02, 2014, 08:35:44 PM »
If the former: I'm not familiar with the song itself, but I guess I just generally view songs as fiction. I don't assume what is described actually represents the singer's (or songwriter's) own life in any way, unless there's clear evidence otherwise. For me, writing/singing in the first person is a stylistic choice, not a indication that the singer/songwriter actually experienced what is described. I assume that a lot of songwriters, like authors, write what they think will be interesting or popular among their fans, or what will support their "image," not necessarily having anything to do with their own experiences. So for me, a reference to "partying with Molly" just indicates that she thinks her fans will like that. Unless there was outside evidence that she does drugs herself or it was a detailed description of the drug's effects, I wouldn't take it as a strong indication that she actually does drugs.

This. I don't tend to assume the "point-of-view character" of a song is an exact analog of the songwriter and that everything the character does is something the writer has also done. It's more like a first-person narrator in a novel IMO. But then I've met people who think all fiction is true too.  ;D I used to write some villain-point-of-view fiction and occasionally a reader thought I was admitting to doing some awful things personally.

JenJay

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Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
« Reply #33 on: February 02, 2014, 08:39:41 PM »
The whole thing put me off about her giving advice to anyone is how she has so little respect for herself. Justin is a train wreck, too, don't get me wrong.

OK, some of you have argued that she is doing all of this stuff in her career - but riding a wrecking ball nude in a video, and that whole twerking thing was just... so sad. So go ahead, Justin, and party at home, but running around naked and simulating sex in public is OK because it's her *career*?

How do you know she doesn't respect herself? Just because she doesn't travel by the same moral compass as you doesn't mean she doesn't respect herself.

I agree. And actually she seems to respect herself quite a bit. I get that "It's okay if you don't like me, I'm still going to be who I am." vibe from her. I can't relate to her choices but I don't condemn her for them. I don't think she's out to hurt anybody, unlike a lot if the "It's all about me so give me what I want." garbage you see so much of in a lot of celebrities.

I completely agree. Sometimes, in fact, I think she may respect herself a tad too much. She may do well to realize that not all of her ideas are good ones. lol

LOL  ;D

Ceallach

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Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
« Reply #34 on: February 03, 2014, 03:10:44 AM »
The whole thing put me off about her giving advice to anyone is how she has so little respect for herself. Justin is a train wreck, too, don't get me wrong.

OK, some of you have argued that she is doing all of this stuff in her career - but riding a wrecking ball nude in a video, and that whole twerking thing was just... so sad. So go ahead, Justin, and party at home, but running around naked and simulating sex in public is OK because it's her *career*?

Personally no, I don't think it's OK.   I don't think what a lot of celebrities do for their career is OK, I think a lot of it is disgusting.  But I love that we live in free countries where they can do such things, and those who want to watch that type of entertainment can do so without persecution. 

So no I don't think it's OK, but I do think it's different to public illegal activity which endangers the lives of those around him. 
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MamaMootz

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Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
« Reply #35 on: February 03, 2014, 09:24:37 AM »
It smacks of self-disrespect to me that she thinks the way to get famous is to get naked in a video and simulate sex at an award show. Does she think she's all that and a bag of chips? Clearly. But you actually can have a career and get PR without performing a porno act at the VMA's. She is too young to figure that out.

Yes, I guess that's my opinion but she's also setting a bad example for girls who may idolize her.

Is anything she's doing out right illegal? No. But I still don't think she's the right person to give anyone advice, career or otherwise. And I understand that Jay Leno ASKED her. Doesn't mean that the advice itself is worth a hill of beans.
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Winterlight

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Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
« Reply #36 on: February 03, 2014, 09:40:54 AM »
Her advice is worth as much as anyone else who gets asked. I'd be more surprised if she didn't get questions on him- he's the current scandal.

I am no Miley apologist. I don't listen to her music. But she's managed to get to 21 and not get arrested, and for a child star today that seems like an accomplishment.
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Five things observe with care,
To whom you speak,
Of whom you speak,
And how, and when, and where.
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TurtleDove

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Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
« Reply #37 on: February 03, 2014, 09:42:42 AM »
It smacks of self-disrespect to me that she thinks the way to get famous ......

Well, she already was famous. She is tweaking (twerking??) :) her image.  Personally, I don't think she is lacking in self-respect at all.  She has a great voice and is likely to have a long career.  And I do not think it is an entertainer's job to be an example for anyone else.  It is the parents who should be teaching their kids.

Yvaine

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Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
« Reply #38 on: February 03, 2014, 09:45:04 AM »
It smacks of self-disrespect to me that she thinks the way to get famous ......

Well, she already was famous. She is tweaking (twerking??) :) her image.  Personally, I don't think she is lacking in self-respect at all.  She has a great voice and is likely to have a long career.  And I do not think it is an entertainer's job to be an example for anyone else.  It is the parents who should be teaching their kids.

And I really think the only reason people are shocked by Miley, in particular, is that she started out as a child star and I think people wanted her to stay a kid forever. Lots of other stars bare as much skin but nobody cares because we "got to know them" as adults, so there was never that cognitive dissonance factor. People wanted her to stay Hannah Montana...well, Hannah Montana was a fictional character.

rose red

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Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
« Reply #39 on: February 03, 2014, 11:03:48 AM »
It smacks of self-disrespect to me that she thinks the way to get famous ......

Well, she already was famous. She is tweaking (twerking??) :) her image.  Personally, I don't think she is lacking in self-respect at all.  She has a great voice and is likely to have a long career.  And I do not think it is an entertainer's job to be an example for anyone else.  It is the parents who should be teaching their kids.

I don't like her voice and have thought that ever since her innocent Hanna Montana days when I happily watched the show.  But I agree it's not her job to be a role model.  As a kid, I had crushes on wholesome celebrities who later went on to be, well, less wholesome.  I wasn't stupid not to realise the changes and blindly start to break laws just because they did.  They weren't raising me; my parents were.

Erich L-ster

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Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
« Reply #40 on: February 03, 2014, 11:09:55 AM »

JenJay

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Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
« Reply #41 on: February 03, 2014, 11:50:33 AM »
It smacks of self-disrespect to me that she thinks the way to get famous is to get naked in a video and simulate sex at an award show. Does she think she's all that and a bag of chips? Clearly. But you actually can have a career and get PR without performing a porno act at the VMA's. She is too young to figure that out.

Yes, I guess that's my opinion but she's also setting a bad example for girls who may idolize her.

Is anything she's doing out right illegal? No. But I still don't think she's the right person to give anyone advice, career or otherwise. And I understand that Jay Leno ASKED her. Doesn't mean that the advice itself is worth a hill of beans.

This attitude actually makes me furious. No one ever says that male artists who simulate sex on stage or on screen need to have more respect for themselves. In fact, people usually say they need to have more respect for women. The message that sends to young women is enormous. It teaches them that their sexuality is "dirty" and inappropriate. It tells them that sexuality is a male trait and if they want to have respect for themselves, they need to hide that side of themselves, lest anyone think they're one of "those" girls.

Personally, I think Miley looks ridiculous. I don't enjoy her music and her style leaves a lot to be desired. But as a mother of a daughter, it ticks me off that so much of the criticism leveled at Miley has to do with the sexual nature of her performances. Women being sexual is not any more inappropriate or disgusting than men being sexual. Do I think Miley's behavior sends a positive message to young girls? I don't know. It actually seems pretty harmless compared to the rest of the music industry. But the message being sent here, the one I don't want my daughter to pick up, is the idea that female sexuality is unacceptable.

Yup. After that awards show thing she did with Robin Thicke, which I didn't see firsthand but read about after, I got so incredibly ticked off at all the people who said "Poor Robin, he must have felt so awkward!" Excuse me? Watch 30 seconds of his most popular video, look up the lyrics and read along, then tell me again that he was uncomfortable.

I feel the same way about Miley as you do but if I had to choose between having my 13yo DD listen to any one of her songs or that one of his I'll take Miley every time. At least she sings about her own sexuality and not "knowing" someone who seems to be a "good girl" actually really "wants it". The thing that irritates me about his song isn't that the woman he sings about apparently enjoys sex, it's that it's supposed to be a secret that he's calling her out on.

Miley reminds me of Charles Barkley (I believe it was?) when some people said he wasn't a good role model and his answer was basically well yeah, I'm not a role model, I'm an athlete. It's your job to set the example for your kids, not mine.

JenJay

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Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
« Reply #42 on: February 03, 2014, 11:52:40 AM »


Did you see the one where someone actually split each picture in half and swapped them? They really do look a LOT alike! Then again I seem to recall a study where someone did that with a lot of celebrities and it was interesting to see how what's considered "attractive" is actually a fairly narrow set of characteristics that a lot of "attractive" people shared.

GlitterIsMyDrug

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Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
« Reply #43 on: February 03, 2014, 11:57:55 AM »
When I think of Miley I think "Yep, when I was in my early 20s I did a lot of crazy stupid stuff, I just didn't have cameras on me when I did it", so I give the girl a lot of leeway. I think in 10 years, or less (it was less for me), she's gonna look at this time and think "Why did I do that? Why did I think that was cool?", I did. Seriously, there are some stories that float around about things I did back then that leave me wondering what the heck was going through my head. And the truth is, nothing was. I had no real responsibilities, though I didn't have her bank account, I didn't have to answer to my mom anymore, I could do what I wanted. So I did. Then I got bored of that and grew up. I doubt I'm the only reformed party girl.

Like Miley, I also never got in trouble with the law. Sure, I went out, partied, danced on tables, made out with people in bathrooms, had a good old time. Then I got in a cab and went home. Never got behind the wheel of a car after partying. Never drove a Lambo at 25mph (no seriously, why even bother Justin? If you're gonna get a Lambo don't drive it like it's a Prius), egged someones house, or caused my neighbors to call the cops on me.

I feel like Miley is doing the wild and crazy thing. I feel like Justin is doing the I'm above it all because I'm famous thing. I know I saw his mom on the View awhile back and her reaction to his behavior was basically "Oh well, he's gonna do what he's gonna do", because he's the paycheck.

lollylegs

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Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
« Reply #44 on: February 03, 2014, 05:01:41 PM »
It smacks of self-disrespect to me that she thinks the way to get famous is to get naked in a video and simulate sex at an award show. Does she think she's all that and a bag of chips? Clearly. But you actually can have a career and get PR without performing a porno act at the VMA's. She is too young to figure that out.

Yes, I guess that's my opinion but she's also setting a bad example for girls who may idolize her.

Is anything she's doing out right illegal? No. But I still don't think she's the right person to give anyone advice, career or otherwise. And I understand that Jay Leno ASKED her. Doesn't mean that the advice itself is worth a hill of beans.

This attitude actually makes me furious. No one ever says that male artists who simulate sex on stage or on screen need to have more respect for themselves. In fact, people usually say they need to have more respect for women. The message that sends to young women is enormous. It teaches them that their sexuality is "dirty" and inappropriate. It tells them that sexuality is a male trait and if they want to have respect for themselves, they need to hide that side of themselves, lest anyone think they're one of "those" girls.

Personally, I think Miley looks ridiculous. I don't enjoy her music and her style leaves a lot to be desired. But as a mother of a daughter, it ticks me off that so much of the criticism leveled at Miley has to do with the sexual nature of her performances. Women being sexual is not any more inappropriate or disgusting than men being sexual. Do I think Miley's behavior sends a positive message to young girls? I don't know. It actually seems pretty harmless compared to the rest of the music industry. But the message being sent here, the one I don't want my daughter to pick up, is the idea that female sexuality is unacceptable.

Yes yes yes! Get out of my head  :)

MamaMootz, I think your issue is with Miley and not with what she's said. And like I said earlier, you don't have to like Miley Cyrus. A lot of people don't. But this attitude that she doesn't respect herself and that she's doing a disservice to women everywhere by flaunting her sexuality is actually what's doing a disservice to women everywhere.

I'm interested in hearing what you think about Justin Beiber's DUI charges, after four pages of how much you disapprove of Miley's completely legal activities.