Author Topic: Dear Abby 2/4/14 - Men's Only Club  (Read 17161 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Hmmmmm

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 6714
Re: Dear Abby 2/4/14 - Men's Only Club
« Reply #105 on: February 11, 2014, 12:10:30 PM »
Quote
So it's rude for her to ignore the rule, but also rude for her to ask that the rule be changed? So what exactly is the LW supposed to do? Suck it up and comply, even though she had no say in making it?

As others have said, what she is supposed to do is to discuss with her husband her discomfort -- and I'm not saying it's unreasonable, even though I wouldn't find it more than a minor inconvenience -- that his membership in this club requires her to leave the house on the evenings he hosts.  Then they can decide whether (1) he will quit (2) she will accommodate or (3) he will ask if the rule can be changed.

But the problem is that her husband is doing something that bothers her, not that the club rules are rude or unfair to her.

Otherwise, it's like saying that no clubs may ever exist that have any rules or requirements that affect any non-members.

I agree she should absolutely do this. But what the husband refuses? What if he tells her "Too bad, I like this club. The guys are coming over at 6pm. Make yourself scarce."

Is it still rude if she ignores the rule in this instance?

If the husband knows he can not follow the rules of the club for what ever reason he should resign. Having the members attend at his home and not following the rules is rude on his part. And if the reason he can't follow the rules is because his wife won't leave then that is a relationship issue amongst them.

gellchom

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2334
Re: Dear Abby 2/4/14 - Men's Only Club
« Reply #106 on: February 11, 2014, 02:32:28 PM »
To answer you, LifeOnPluto, I agree with the majority: if her husband does not quit the club, then when it is his turn to host, yes, she would be rude not to leave. 

And her husband would be rude to the club if he agreed to let her stay.

Lowspark's post analogizing to the Bunco string is perfect.

turnip

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 595
Re: Dear Abby 2/4/14 - Men's Only Club
« Reply #107 on: February 11, 2014, 02:43:59 PM »
To answer you, LifeOnPluto, I agree with the majority: if her husband does not quit the club, then when it is his turn to host, yes, she would be rude not to leave. 

And her husband would be rude to the club if he agreed to let her stay.

Lowspark's post analogizing to the Bunco string is perfect.

I simply don't think she can be rude for not doing something she never agreed to do.  If my husband signs me up for things without my approval or consent, then I'm not going to do them.   Let him refuse to host or find a clubhouse or something - it is just not on her.

 There may be marital repercussions, of course, but we're just discussing rudeness.  It is not rude to be in your home, and it is not rude to be in your home even if someone else has guaranteed that you will not be there.

TurtleDove

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 6284
Re: Dear Abby 2/4/14 - Men's Only Club
« Reply #108 on: February 11, 2014, 02:51:06 PM »
To answer you, LifeOnPluto, I agree with the majority: if her husband does not quit the club, then when it is his turn to host, yes, she would be rude not to leave. 

And her husband would be rude to the club if he agreed to let her stay.

Lowspark's post analogizing to the Bunco string is perfect.

I simply don't think she can be rude for not doing something she never agreed to do.  If my husband signs me up for things without my approval or consent, then I'm not going to do them.   Let him refuse to host or find a clubhouse or something - it is just not on her.

 There may be marital repercussions, of course, but we're just discussing rudeness.  It is not rude to be in your home, and it is not rude to be in your home even if someone else has guaranteed that you will not be there.

This is why this is a marital issue and not an etiquette issue.  Because it does not reflect well on the DH to defy the rules he agree do in joining the club, and that is what the wife is insisting he do by refusing to vacate the house during the club meeting.

Vall

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 796
Re: Dear Abby 2/4/14 - Men's Only Club
« Reply #109 on: February 11, 2014, 02:53:01 PM »
To answer you, LifeOnPluto, I agree with the majority: if her husband does not quit the club, then when it is his turn to host, yes, she would be rude not to leave. 

And her husband would be rude to the club if he agreed to let her stay.

Lowspark's post analogizing to the Bunco string is perfect.

I simply don't think she can be rude for not doing something she never agreed to do.  If my husband signs me up for things without my approval or consent, then I'm not going to do them.   Let him refuse to host or find a clubhouse or something - it is just not on her.

 There may be marital repercussions, of course, but we're just discussing rudeness.  It is not rude to be in your home, and it is not rude to be in your home even if someone else has guaranteed that you will not be there.
I don't think it would be rude of the wife if she were to let the club know with plenty of notice that it wasn't going to be possible for her to leave their home when her husband hosts.  That way, the club can make an informed decision about whether to let her husband host or whether they even want to keep him as a member.  After informing the club first, I don't think she would be rude to stay.

TurtleDove

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 6284
Re: Dear Abby 2/4/14 - Men's Only Club
« Reply #110 on: February 11, 2014, 02:55:57 PM »
I don't think it would be rude of the wife if she were to let the club know with plenty of notice that it wasn't going to be possible for her to leave their home when her husband hosts.  That way, the club can make an informed decision about whether to let her husband host or whether they even want to keep him as a member.  After informing the club first, I don't think she would be rude to stay.

I think it would be rude to involve the club in a marital issue.  This should be handled by the husband - either he works it out with his wife, or he works it out with the club, but the wife should not be going to the club on behalf of her husband. 

eee

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 101
Re: Dear Abby 2/4/14 - Men's Only Club
« Reply #111 on: February 11, 2014, 02:57:58 PM »
To answer you, LifeOnPluto, I agree with the majority: if her husband does not quit the club, then when it is his turn to host, yes, she would be rude not to leave. 

And her husband would be rude to the club if he agreed to let her stay.

Lowspark's post analogizing to the Bunco string is perfect.

I simply don't think she can be rude for not doing something she never agreed to do.  If my husband signs me up for things without my approval or consent, then I'm not going to do them.   Let him refuse to host or find a clubhouse or something - it is just not on her.

 There may be marital repercussions, of course, but we're just discussing rudeness.  It is not rude to be in your home, and it is not rude to be in your home even if someone else has guaranteed that you will not be there.

I agree with you. It's the husband's problem if he's promised the club his wife will do something she has not agreed to do. If someone suggested I was rude for being in my own house I'd laugh in their face.

melicious

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 321
Re: Dear Abby 2/4/14 - Men's Only Club
« Reply #112 on: February 11, 2014, 03:00:36 PM »
To answer you, LifeOnPluto, I agree with the majority: if her husband does not quit the club, then when it is his turn to host, yes, she would be rude not to leave. 

And her husband would be rude to the club if he agreed to let her stay.

Lowspark's post analogizing to the Bunco string is perfect.

I simply don't think she can be rude for not doing something she never agreed to do.  If my husband signs me up for things without my approval or consent, then I'm not going to do them.   Let him refuse to host or find a clubhouse or something - it is just not on her.

 There may be marital repercussions, of course, but we're just discussing rudeness.  It is not rude to be in your home, and it is not rude to be in your home even if someone else has guaranteed that you will not be there.

Exactly. Why does the club rules trump the wife's right to be in her own home? They're not paying the mortgage, so IMO they have no say. If it's that important to them to have "no skirts", as they so charmingly put it, then I agree - it's on them to find another location. I'm baffled as to why the wife should comply to being kicked out of her own home because it's the club rules.

Vall

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 796
Re: Dear Abby 2/4/14 - Men's Only Club
« Reply #113 on: February 11, 2014, 03:06:36 PM »
I don't think it would be rude of the wife if she were to let the club know with plenty of notice that it wasn't going to be possible for her to leave their home when her husband hosts.  That way, the club can make an informed decision about whether to let her husband host or whether they even want to keep him as a member.  After informing the club first, I don't think she would be rude to stay.

I think it would be rude to involve the club in a marital issue.  This should be handled by the husband - either he works it out with his wife, or he works it out with the club, but the wife should not be going to the club on behalf of her husband.
I absolutely agree that it should be handled by the husband.  But if he chooses not to inform the club prior to his hosting that his wife will be there, I think it would be polite for her to give them a heads up.

Tabby Uprising

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 451
Re: Dear Abby 2/4/14 - Men's Only Club
« Reply #114 on: February 11, 2014, 03:22:57 PM »
I thought an important distinction between the bunco situation and this one was that the husbands and children of the bunco members were only to make themselves scarce and not actually vacate the house.  It was reiterated throughout that thread that the husband was perceived to be rude because he inserted himself into the group, not because he didn't vacate the house entirely.

That's a big distinction to me, "giving space" vs. "being gone". 

So yes, if you want to be in the club you must accept (or vote to change) the group rules.  If the wife does not want to literally vacate her house, tells her husband and is ignored then certainly that's a relationship issue.  At the same time though, if the husband ignores her and hosts the group anyway, he's knowingly breaking their rules. 

It's messy for the group if it comes to that sure, but I can't call someone rude for not wanting to leave their own home when they made that desire known to their spouse. It's a huge overreach of etiquette (in my opinion) to say this wife would be rude for not leaving her home when she made her needs clear.  Her needs, even if ignored by her husband, trump guest comfort in this situation.

If my husband joined a group that mandated wives babysit children of the other members on their host night, I'd say "no way".  I wouldn't do it.  Full stop.  If he goes ahead and joins the group, hosts an evening at our house, I am not rude for not babysitting the other member children. 

pierrotlunaire0

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4310
  • I'm the cat's aunt!
Re: Dear Abby 2/4/14 - Men's Only Club
« Reply #115 on: February 11, 2014, 03:25:14 PM »
To answer you, LifeOnPluto, I agree with the majority: if her husband does not quit the club, then when it is his turn to host, yes, she would be rude not to leave. 

And her husband would be rude to the club if he agreed to let her stay.

Lowspark's post analogizing to the Bunco string is perfect.

I simply don't think she can be rude for not doing something she never agreed to do.  If my husband signs me up for things without my approval or consent, then I'm not going to do them.   Let him refuse to host or find a clubhouse or something - it is just not on her.

 There may be marital repercussions, of course, but we're just discussing rudeness.  It is not rude to be in your home, and it is not rude to be in your home even if someone else has guaranteed that you will not be there.

Exactly. Why does the club rules trump the wife's right to be in her own home? They're not paying the mortgage, so IMO they have no say. If it's that important to them to have "no skirts", as they so charmingly put it, then I agree - it's on them to find another location. I'm baffled as to why the wife should comply to being kicked out of her own home because it's the club rules.

I think it keeps coming back to the spouse (here husband) that belongs to the club.  If the husband wants to belong to the club, and if he agrees to abide by club rules, then that is why the club's rules trump the wife's.  Does he have the right as co-owner to strip her of her rights?  No, but that is why this really is no longer an etiquette issue, but a relationship one.  Now maybe the husband is waffling, and pretending that this has absolutely nothing to do with him, when it has everything to do with him.  The club is a decoy, and the husband needs to decide: which is more important -- kicking my wife out of her home, or hanging with my friends?
I have enough lithium in my medicine cabinet to power three cars across a sizeable desert.  Which makes me officially...Three Cars Crazy

melicious

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 321
Re: Dear Abby 2/4/14 - Men's Only Club
« Reply #116 on: February 11, 2014, 03:29:51 PM »
To answer you, LifeOnPluto, I agree with the majority: if her husband does not quit the club, then when it is his turn to host, yes, she would be rude not to leave. 

And her husband would be rude to the club if he agreed to let her stay.

Lowspark's post analogizing to the Bunco string is perfect.

I simply don't think she can be rude for not doing something she never agreed to do.  If my husband signs me up for things without my approval or consent, then I'm not going to do them.   Let him refuse to host or find a clubhouse or something - it is just not on her.

 There may be marital repercussions, of course, but we're just discussing rudeness.  It is not rude to be in your home, and it is not rude to be in your home even if someone else has guaranteed that you will not be there.

Exactly. Why does the club rules trump the wife's right to be in her own home? They're not paying the mortgage, so IMO they have no say. If it's that important to them to have "no skirts", as they so charmingly put it, then I agree - it's on them to find another location. I'm baffled as to why the wife should comply to being kicked out of her own home because it's the club rules.

I think it keeps coming back to the spouse (here husband) that belongs to the club.  If the husband wants to belong to the club, and if he agrees to abide by club rules, then that is why the club's rules trump the wife's.

Except the club's rules interfere with her right to be on her own property. And that's where the etiquette breach lies. The club, IMO, does not have the right to tell the wife to leave her own home because of their rules. They don't own the house.

TurtleDove

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 6284
Re: Dear Abby 2/4/14 - Men's Only Club
« Reply #117 on: February 11, 2014, 03:40:15 PM »
Except the club's rules interfere with her right to be on her own property. And that's where the etiquette breach lies. The club, IMO, does not have the right to tell the wife to leave her own home because of their rules. They don't own the house.

What you are missing is that the husband *does* own the house and he has invited the club into his house. THe club is not doing anything wrong.  If anyone is, it is the husband.

pierrotlunaire0

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4310
  • I'm the cat's aunt!
Re: Dear Abby 2/4/14 - Men's Only Club
« Reply #118 on: February 11, 2014, 03:41:53 PM »
Except the club's rules interfere with her right to be on her own property. And that's where the etiquette breach lies. The club, IMO, does not have the right to tell the wife to leave her own home because of their rules. They don't own the house.

What you are missing is that the husband *does* own the house and he has invited the club into his house. THe club is not doing anything wrong.  If anyone is, it is the husband.

I totally agree with Turtledove. 
I have enough lithium in my medicine cabinet to power three cars across a sizeable desert.  Which makes me officially...Three Cars Crazy

Tabby Uprising

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 451
Re: Dear Abby 2/4/14 - Men's Only Club
« Reply #119 on: February 11, 2014, 03:44:02 PM »
To answer you, LifeOnPluto, I agree with the majority: if her husband does not quit the club, then when it is his turn to host, yes, she would be rude not to leave. 

And her husband would be rude to the club if he agreed to let her stay.

Lowspark's post analogizing to the Bunco string is perfect.

I simply don't think she can be rude for not doing something she never agreed to do.  If my husband signs me up for things without my approval or consent, then I'm not going to do them.   Let him refuse to host or find a clubhouse or something - it is just not on her.

 There may be marital repercussions, of course, but we're just discussing rudeness.  It is not rude to be in your home, and it is not rude to be in your home even if someone else has guaranteed that you will not be there.

Exactly. Why does the club rules trump the wife's right to be in her own home? They're not paying the mortgage, so IMO they have no say. If it's that important to them to have "no skirts", as they so charmingly put it, then I agree - it's on them to find another location. I'm baffled as to why the wife should comply to being kicked out of her own home because it's the club rules.

I think it keeps coming back to the spouse (here husband) that belongs to the club.  If the husband wants to belong to the club, and if he agrees to abide by club rules, then that is why the club's rules trump the wife's.  Does he have the right as co-owner to strip her of her rights?  No, but that is why this really is no longer an etiquette issue, but a relationship one.  Now maybe the husband is waffling, and pretending that this has absolutely nothing to do with him, when it has everything to do with him.  The club is a decoy, and the husband needs to decide: which is more important -- kicking my wife out of her home, or hanging with my friends?

I disagree with that.  Both member and non-member are impacted by this rule and both need to consent.  If one spouse doesn't consent her needs aren't automatically usurped by the club.  Why would they?  She didn't agree to it. Her husband ignored her needs and flaunted club rules.  If the members are annoyed by this, it's on him not her. 

Having to leave one's own home is a big request.  Whether it's reasonable or not comes down to an individual basis, but it's a big request. It really needs consent of both partners and I can't agree that one partner is rude to stay in their own home when they made it known from the start they would do so.  Being in one's own home is such a fundamental thing. If you want to be in your home, how can that be usurped by anyone else who doesn't live there?

The club isn't doing anything wrong by having the rule or by coming to the house.  But she is not doing anything wrong by being in her own home when that's the stance she had from the start.  It doesn't make her rude. 

Blah, I can't get my thoughts around expressing it properly!