Author Topic: Dear Abby 2/4/14 - Men's Only Club  (Read 15244 times)

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Hmmmmm

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Re: Dear Abby 2/4/14 - Men's Only Club
« Reply #150 on: February 11, 2014, 05:50:08 PM »
I think there were two instances of rudeness: the husband, by asking his wife to leave when it obviously upsets her, and the organiser for making the rule in the first place. I don't think 'well the husbands knew and they joined anyway' cancels it out because it was a rude rule to make in the first place. Suppose the rule was, we go out to a non-smoking restaurant and smoke cigars. Yes, the people who willingly participate are rude, but so is the person who set the rule.

Unless you're helping me pay my mortgage, you do not get to ask tell me to leave my house.

I disagree with your reasoning and conclusions, mostly because the person asking the wife to leave the house *does* help her pay the mortgage.

Yes, but the rest of the club does not. And the club is the one who made the rule - not the husband. And therein lies the problem, and why I believe in my opinion, that it is not solely a relationship issue, but poor etiquette on the part of the club.

So Melicious, is your point that the rule is in fact rude? Is your position that it is rude to try to enforce a condition on how someone uses their home?

Iris

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Re: Dear Abby 2/4/14 - Men's Only Club
« Reply #151 on: February 11, 2014, 05:57:13 PM »
Fwiw I asked DH about this and he thought the idea of a men's club that meet in the houses of members and expected exclusive use of them was weird. In his experience the men go out to a bar or do an activity (fishing etc). From his perspective he felt the club organiser WAS rude. Just another perspective.
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TootsNYC

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Re: Dear Abby 2/4/14 - Men's Only Club
« Reply #152 on: February 11, 2014, 05:58:51 PM »
I think there were two instances of rudeness: the husband, by asking his wife to leave when it obviously upsets her, and the organiser for making the rule in the first place. I don't think 'well the husbands knew and they joined anyway' cancels it out because it was a rude rule to make in the first place. Suppose the rule was, we go out to a non-smoking restaurant and smoke cigars. Yes, the people who willingly participate are rude, but so is the person who set the rule.

Unless you're helping me pay my mortgage, you do not get to ask tell me to leave my house.

I disagree with your reasoning and conclusions, mostly because the person asking the wife to leave the house *does* help her pay the mortgage.

Yes, but the rest of the club does not. And the club is the one who made the rule - not the husband. And therein lies the problem, and why I believe in my opinion, that it is not solely a relationship issue, but poor etiquette on the part of the club.

So Melicious, is your point that the rule is in fact rude? Is your position that it is rude to try to enforce a condition on how someone uses their home?

But that's not what this rule is. This is a rule about how members shall host the club. If you can't meet the conditions, you don't join.

melicious

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Re: Dear Abby 2/4/14 - Men's Only Club
« Reply #153 on: February 11, 2014, 05:59:10 PM »
I think there were two instances of rudeness: the husband, by asking his wife to leave when it obviously upsets her, and the organiser for making the rule in the first place. I don't think 'well the husbands knew and they joined anyway' cancels it out because it was a rude rule to make in the first place. Suppose the rule was, we go out to a non-smoking restaurant and smoke cigars. Yes, the people who willingly participate are rude, but so is the person who set the rule.

Unless you're helping me pay my mortgage, you do not get to ask tell me to leave my house.

I disagree with your reasoning and conclusions, mostly because the person asking the wife to leave the house *does* help her pay the mortgage.

Yes, but the rest of the club does not. And the club is the one who made the rule - not the husband. And therein lies the problem, and why I believe in my opinion, that it is not solely a relationship issue, but poor etiquette on the part of the club.

So Melicious, is your point that the rule is in fact rude? Is your position that it is rude to try to enforce a condition on how someone uses their home?

Actually I've decided to bow out of this thread. It's getting too contentious for me and keeps going in circles. I've already decided my position on this and it's not going to change.

VorFemme

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Re: Dear Abby 2/4/14 - Men's Only Club
« Reply #154 on: February 11, 2014, 06:07:28 PM »
I'd put on a purple dress, a BIG red hat, and call some friends to see if they wanted to join me someplace....

Or drive 55 miles across Houston to visit my sister (overnight trip, if it's the weekend).

Or go fabric shopping....

But I wouldn't be cleaning the house and fixing snacks for his club before I left unless he'd helped clean house and fix food for one of my groups in the past (we almost always eat out - too many different women coming from around Houston to bring food).  Unless the group leader is having the dinner at her place or a central location (recreation center) where we can set up a pot luck. 
Let sleeping dragons be.......morning breath......need I say more?

gellchom

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Re: Dear Abby 2/4/14 - Men's Only Club
« Reply #155 on: February 11, 2014, 09:59:20 PM »
Suppose instead of the empty house rule, the club had a "Smoke Free" rule, and some of the members are married to smokers.

Is the club rude to have that rule?  It affects what others, who didn't have a say in the rule, can do in their own homes.

Is the wife rude if she smokes in or near the meeting room?
« Last Edit: February 11, 2014, 10:01:36 PM by gellchom »

turnip

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Re: Dear Abby 2/4/14 - Men's Only Club
« Reply #156 on: February 11, 2014, 11:47:45 PM »
The club is not rude.

The wife is not rude either.  "No" is a complete sentence, we sometimes say on this site.  Her husband said ( effectively ) "Honey, can you leave the house on X night for my club?".  She said "No, I can't".  There is no way to make that rude, whatever marital repercussions there may be.

LifeOnPluto

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Re: Dear Abby 2/4/14 - Men's Only Club
« Reply #157 on: February 12, 2014, 05:58:28 AM »
Suppose instead of the empty house rule, the club had a "Smoke Free" rule, and some of the members are married to smokers.

Is the club rude to have that rule?  It affects what others, who didn't have a say in the rule, can do in their own homes.

Is the wife rude if she smokes in or near the meeting room?

For me, "house rights" trump "club rules".

Yes, it would be kind and gracious if the wife refrained from smoking when the club was present. And she'd certainly be rude if she deliberately blew smoke in their faces, and talked about how wonderful nicotine was. But the simple act of smoking in her own home wouldn't be rude, IMO.

Corvid

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Re: Dear Abby 2/4/14 - Men's Only Club
« Reply #158 on: February 12, 2014, 08:40:25 AM »
I'd want more information before I decided whether or not this club's expectation is even reasonable.  What exactly is the burden on the wife to be out of the house?

What does an evening meeting actually mean?  Is it from, say, 7 o'clock to 9 o'clock?  Or is it 7 o'clock until 11 or 12 o'clock?  One is treating myself to dinner out and maybe browsing the mall, the other is having to amuse myself until after my bedtime when the only things still open are the 24 hour grocery stores and gas stations, bars, and the late night fast food joints.

What is the weather like?  Where I am, we're smack in the middle of the coldest, snowiest winter in eons.  Once the sun goes down, the temps drop below 0 Farenheit and it's miserably cold.  The roads are bad.  Visibility is poor at night because everything looks gray or grayish-white in the dark because of the snow drifts and the snow on the road and often it's been snowing as well.  I would not be pleased with anyone who thought I needed to be out in that because No Girl Cooties Allowed.

Are there comfortable and enjoyable options for the wife if she leaves the house?  Are there places that she can go and enjoy herself, or is this community in the middle of nowhere and unless she wants to hang out at the gas station, she has to drive an hour?

And not least, is leaving her own home to indulge an exclusionary men's club against the wife's own philosophies and moral code?

DavidH

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Re: Dear Abby 2/4/14 - Men's Only Club
« Reply #159 on: February 12, 2014, 01:57:39 PM »
It's interesting that on the Bunco thread there was almost uniform agreement that the husband was rude for staying in the room and not making himself scarce while the game was ongoing.  I'm not sure what the difference is between that and this.  It is still the club telling someone how to behave in their own home. 

If the issue is the "no skirts", then it is key to separate the phrasing, which we only know about through the wife who appears to be a biased source, from idea that it's a men only club with no women allowed in the house during the meetings. 

I'll put it another way, what if it is a club for survivors of sexual abuse and they want it to be only men or only women?  Would not wanting the spouses of the survivors in the house be rude in that instance? 


Hmmmmm

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Re: Dear Abby 2/4/14 - Men's Only Club
« Reply #160 on: February 12, 2014, 02:00:58 PM »
It's interesting that on the Bunco thread there was almost uniform agreement that the husband was rude for staying in the room and not making himself scarce while the game was ongoing.  I'm not sure what the difference is between that and this.  It is still the club telling someone how to behave in their own home. 

If the issue is the "no skirts", then it is key to separate the phrasing, which we only know about through the wife who appears to be a biased source, from idea that it's a men only club with no women allowed in the house during the meetings. 

I'll put it another way, what if it is a club for survivors of sexual abuse and they want it to be only men or only women?  Would not wanting the spouses of the survivors in the house be rude in that instance?

I think the majority agree that the wife staying would be rude. And if she is unwilling to accommodate her husband's request to leave the home then he needs to withdraw from the group.

lowspark

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Re: Dear Abby 2/4/14 - Men's Only Club
« Reply #161 on: February 12, 2014, 02:34:34 PM »
It's interesting that on the Bunco thread there was almost uniform agreement that the husband was rude for staying in the room and not making himself scarce while the game was ongoing.  I'm not sure what the difference is between that and this.  It is still the club telling someone how to behave in their own home. 

If the issue is the "no skirts", then it is key to separate the phrasing, which we only know about through the wife who appears to be a biased source, from idea that it's a men only club with no women allowed in the house during the meetings. 

I'll put it another way, what if it is a club for survivors of sexual abuse and they want it to be only men or only women?  Would not wanting the spouses of the survivors in the house be rude in that instance?

I think the difference that some people are seeing is that for Bunco, the spouse could be in the house and could even make a brief appearance. Here, the spouse is being told to completely vacate the house for the duration of the meeting.

In addition, the husband in the Bunco thread wasn't just there, he was insinuating his presence into the ongoing conversation in the dining room. In effect, he was not only in the house and in the room, he was making himself a part of the event.

Since I started the bunco thread, I'll just repeat what I have stated which is that I do think the wife is rude. My stance is the same in both threads. Member spouse is rude for agreeing to host knowing the other spouse will be there. Non-member spouse is rude for deliberately staying when the rules of the club say to leave. Club has the right to set the rules and any member who finds them unreasonable or unworkable can try to change them, but failing that, should resign membership in the club.

DavidH

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Re: Dear Abby 2/4/14 - Men's Only Club
« Reply #162 on: February 12, 2014, 02:45:23 PM »
I am 100% in agreement with you lowspark.  Once the non-member spouse knows the deal and they should be asked about this well before people start showing up, they should either talk with their spouse and decide not to host, or agree that their spouse can host and both of them will follow the rules.  The middle ground of hosting and not following the rules is rude on both of their parts. 

MrTango

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Re: Dear Abby 2/4/14 - Men's Only Club
« Reply #163 on: February 12, 2014, 03:49:31 PM »
It's interesting that on the Bunco thread there was almost uniform agreement that the husband was rude for staying in the room and not making himself scarce while the game was ongoing.  I'm not sure what the difference is between that and this.  It is still the club telling someone how to behave in their own home. 

If the issue is the "no skirts", then it is key to separate the phrasing, which we only know about through the wife who appears to be a biased source, from idea that it's a men only club with no women allowed in the house during the meetings. 

I'll put it another way, what if it is a club for survivors of sexual abuse and they want it to be only men or only women?  Would not wanting the spouses of the survivors in the house be rude in that instance?

I think the majority agree that the wife staying would be rude. And if she is unwilling to accommodate her husband's request to leave the home then he needs to withdraw from the group.

The wife agreeing to leave the house but then changing her mind and staying would be rude.  If the wife doesn't agree in the first place, then I don't think she's at all rude to refue to leave her home.

Yes, it's also her husband's home.  That doesn't mean that his wishes can trump hers or that her wishes can trump his.  This is a relationship issue between the husband and wife, and that's where the issue needs to be dealt with.

If LadyTango tried to insist that she was going to take over the house and kick me out for a while so her friends could meet there, without asking for my opinion on the matter, and without giving me the opportunity to decline to be kicked out of my own house, I would be seriously rethinking our relationship.  On the other hand, if she asked me before making the commitment and gave me the opportunity to voice my objections or concerns, It's pretty likely that I'd be okay with it and even willing to help her prepare the house for her visitors.

I am 100% in agreement with you lowspark.  Once the non-member spouse knows the deal and they should be asked about this well before people start showing up, they should either talk with their spouse and decide not to host, or agree that their spouse can host and both of them will follow the rules. The middle ground of hosting and not following the rules is rude on both of their parts.

Agreed.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2014, 03:59:44 PM by MrTango »

TurtleDove

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Re: Dear Abby 2/4/14 - Men's Only Club
« Reply #164 on: February 12, 2014, 04:10:05 PM »
If LadyTango tried to insist that she was going to take over the house and kick me out for a while so her friends could meet there, without asking for my opinion on the matter, and without giving me the opportunity to decline to be kicked out of my own house, I would be seriously rethinking our relationship

Yep.  And the problem would be with Lady Tango, and not with the friends.