Dear Abby 2/4/14 - Men's Only Club

[TootsNYC]

But I think people here are saying (and the club is saying) that she's not the hostess--the club doesn't have a hostess. The club has hosts.

It may be her home, but she's not hosting the club; her husband is.

When my kid has friends over, I'm not hosting them; he is.
I will say, though, that I would refuse to leave the house in most instances.

[Twik]

If you are expected to clean and provide food, you are hosting.

[TootsNYC]

And that's our point--her husband is expected to clean and provide food; If he wants to tap into the skills and efforts of his housemate, that's between the two fo them.

(Also, do most people actually have to clean before people come over? When I didn't have a cleaning lady, that was me, but now that my place is cleaned regularly, it's not like I have to do anything extra.)

[shhh its me]

If you are expected to clean and provide food, you are hosting.

Thats exactly the point , if the organizer actually said "SO your wife needs to cook and clean and if I find out you did the cooking you're out of the club." that would be crazy. If the husbands ask their wife's to cook and clean , heck even if they demand it it doesn't make the organizer rude. It's also possible the the wife's  don't take issue with it.

There is also the assumption the wives are being asked to leave. I know plenty of people in their 50-70s who are not home or with their spouses at least 6 evening a month.  They have hobbies , other interests , friends and family they like to visit solo. There is no reason to 100% conclude that most of these meeting aren't on the night the wives are  already planning to be out playing bunco ;p

[DavidH]

I agree, this would be bizarre, "if the organizer actually said 'SO your wife needs to cook and clean and if I find out you did the cooking you're out of the club.' that would be crazy."  I, and I think most of us envision, the expectation is some sort of snacks and a reasonably clean house with the provider of that left unspecified. In this case, only the men are expected to host, it couldn't be more explicit, since the women can't even be in the house.

If the husband has an arrangement where he says to his wife, my friends are coming over, you need to cook and clean, then that's a relationship choice.  Most of the people I know would find a foot united with their nether regions if they said any variation of, my friends are coming over, you need to cook and clean for them and not be present while they are here. 

[meronym]

If you are expected to clean and provide food, you are hosting.

Thats exactly the point , if the organizer actually said "SO your wife needs to cook and clean and if I find out you did the cooking you're out of the club." that would be crazy. If the husbands ask their wife's to cook and clean , heck even if they demand it it doesn't make the organizer rude. It's also possible the the wife's  don't take issue with it.

There is also the assumption the wives are being asked to leave. I know plenty of people in their 50-70s who are not home or with their spouses at least 6 evening a month.  They have hobbies , other interests , friends and family they like to visit solo. There is no reason to 100% conclude that most of these meeting aren't on the night the wives are  already planning to be out playing bunco ;p

We can only go by the letter, which says "He made a rule that women are not allowed in their own homes when their husbands host a meeting -- "no skirts allowed." Therefore, even though the wife prepares everything for her husband's meeting, she's told to slip out of the house before anyone arrives."

Therefore, from this line, it sounds like the organizer himself came up with and is insisting on this rule. It's an obnoxious rule but, since he can't actually enforce it, I wouldn't call it rude. If the LW doesn't agree with the "rule" she doesn't have to follow it. If her husband tries to enforce it, well that's a relationship issue which doesn't follow normal etiquette.

ETA: Some people in this thread have indicated that they think the Lw is biased and be making the organizer sound worse than he is. So maybe he's not making a rule about who preps but that's how the LW has chosen to spin the situation. However, we kind of have to assume that she's being honest.

[meronym]

(Also, do most people actually have to clean before people come over? When I didn't have a cleaning lady, that was me, but now that my place is cleaned regularly, it's not like I have to do anything extra.)

Yes, most people have to clean their own homes. I don't think the majority of people have a cleaner.

But nice little brag there.   

[lowspark]

I went back and reread the letter. LW says,

even though the wife prepares everything for her husband's meeting, she's told to slip out of the house before anyone arrives

To me that sounds like that's the arrangement the LW and her husband have not something the club founder has said. It sounds like in their house the wife is the one who does the preparing when guests are coming and now she's incensed that she is doing all this and not getting to stay while the meeting is going on.

Then she says,

My husband agrees that this is ridiculous and is considering quitting the club

Here's the conversation I imagine:
Husband: The men's club is coming over tonight. You'll need to prepare for them.
LW: But I don't want to leave the house. Organizer is a chauvinist.
Husband:  Oh yeah, I agree, I could quit the club but I've made friends with these guys. I feel bad about it but it's all the organizer's fault! He's got us bamboozled.
LW: Grumble grumble
Husband: Heh heh heh (evil laugh)

So yeah, I see this as a matter between husband and wife. She doesn't want to leave the house and he doesn't want to quit. In her place I'd probably just tell him to do his own "preparing", whatever that entails, and I'd go out and _______. (Fill in the blank with whatever you like to do. Shop, go to the movies, etc.)

ETA: Even though I alluded to this, I meant to say that "preparing" is what she says in the letter without expanding on what that actually entails. Could be a clean up from top to bottom and gourmet snacks or it could just mean making sure there are clean towels in the bathroom or whatever. So we don't actually know how much work is involved in "preparing".

[TootsNYC]

(Also, do most people actually have to clean before people come over? When I didn't have a cleaning lady, that was me, but now that my place is cleaned regularly, it's not like I have to do anything extra.)

Yes, most people have to clean their own homes. I don't think the majority of people have a cleaner.

But nice little brag there.   

That wasn't my point at all. That's kind of insulting, winkie aside.

My point is, don't most people have to clean their homes "just because"?

Do they really have to do some sort of special cleaning just become a few people are coming over?

If you keep your home reasonably clean at all times, you shouldn't have to.

And if, like me, you're a slob, it's not really fair to complain that "suddenly you have to clean your house." You have to clean your home sometime.

The cleaning lady was mentioned to say that I have been both a slob and a person whose home is cleaned regularly. Now that it's cleaned regularly, my DH and I wouldn't have to do anything particularly difficult if his friends came over.
    In the old days, I would have--but that would be because I didn't do it earlier, not because of the gathering.

I don't think it's fair to complain that you have to clean your home.

[TootsNYC]

If you are expected to clean and provide food, you are hosting.

Thats exactly the point , if the organizer actually said "SO your wife needs to cook and clean and if I find out you did the cooking you're out of the club." that would be crazy. If the husbands ask their wife's to cook and clean , heck even if they demand it it doesn't make the organizer rude. It's also possible the the wife's  don't take issue with it.

There is also the assumption the wives are being asked to leave. I know plenty of people in their 50-70s who are not home or with their spouses at least 6 evening a month.  They have hobbies , other interests , friends and family they like to visit solo. There is no reason to 100% conclude that most of these meeting aren't on the night the wives are  already planning to be out playing bunco ;p

We can only go by the letter, which says "He made a rule that women are not allowed in their own homes when their husbands host a meeting -- "no skirts allowed." Therefore, even though the wife prepares everything for her husband's meeting, she's told to slip out of the house before anyone arrives."

Therefore, from this line, it sounds like the organizer himself came up with and is insisting on this rule. It's an obnoxious rule but, since he can't actually enforce it, I wouldn't call it rude. If the LW doesn't agree with the "rule" she doesn't have to follow it. If her husband tries to enforce it, well that's a relationship issue which doesn't follow normal etiquette.

ETA: Some people in this thread have indicated that they think the Lw is biased and be making the organizer sound worse than he is. So maybe he's not making a rule about who preps but that's how the LW has chosen to spin the situation. However, we kind of have to assume that she's being honest.

The "therefore" is the letter writer's, not the organizer's. I read that very line as *her* conclusion. (Just as your own sentence that begins with "Therefore" reflects your own logic and deductions.) His rule is, "no skirts allowed during the meeting."

The letter writer is the one who is drawing conclusions.

[DavidH]

Completely agree Toots, if we go only by the letter writer:

She states, "He made a rule that women are not allowed in their own homes when their husbands host a meeting -- 'no skirts allowed'."   

Her next sentence is, "Therefore, even though the wife prepares everything for her husband's meeting, she's told to slip out of the house before anyone arrives." She says nothing about whether or not there is a rule requiring preparation or who is required to do it. 

[TurtleDove]

(Also, do most people actually have to clean before people come over? When I didn't have a cleaning lady, that was me, but now that my place is cleaned regularly, it's not like I have to do anything extra.)

Yes, most people have to clean their own homes. I don't think the majority of people have a cleaner.

But nice little brag there.   

I don't have a cleaner and I don't have to clean my house before people come over. "Clean" is a mostly perpetual state in my house.

Yep.  I didn't see TootsNYC's post as a brag but as a question. I keep my house clean for myself and for my family because, well, we deserve to live in a nice clean house.  Guests also enjoy my clean house, but it's not like I live in filth unless and until guests come over. 

[shhh its me]

If you are expected to clean and provide food, you are hosting.

Thats exactly the point , if the organizer actually said "SO your wife needs to cook and clean and if I find out you did the cooking you're out of the club." that would be crazy. If the husbands ask their wife's to cook and clean , heck even if they demand it it doesn't make the organizer rude. It's also possible the the wife's  don't take issue with it.

There is also the assumption the wives are being asked to leave. I know plenty of people in their 50-70s who are not home or with their spouses at least 6 evening a month.  They have hobbies , other interests , friends and family they like to visit solo. There is no reason to 100% conclude that most of these meeting aren't on the night the wives are  already planning to be out playing bunco ;p

We can only go by the letter, which says "He made a rule that women are not allowed in their own homes when their husbands host a meeting -- "no skirts allowed." Therefore, even though the wife prepares everything for her husband's meeting, she's told to slip out of the house before anyone arrives."

Therefore, from this line, it sounds like the organizer himself came up with and is insisting on this rule. It's an obnoxious rule but, since he can't actually enforce it, I wouldn't call it rude. If the LW doesn't agree with the "rule" she doesn't have to follow it. If her husband tries to enforce it, well that's a relationship issue which doesn't follow normal etiquette.

ETA: Some people in this thread have indicated that they think the Lw is biased and be making the organizer sound worse than he is. So maybe he's not making a rule about who preps but that's how the LW has chosen to spin the situation. However, we kind of have to assume that she's being honest.

The bolded "therefore" is the LW opinion/conclusion.  It's a totally different sentence "the organizer insist that the wifes do all the cooking and cleaning and then leave the home.".

Rule = no wife's in home during meeting  does not equal (how do I do the = with the / through it?) wives cook for meeting and then must leave.

There are probable 100s of reasons a spouse may want to host alone (what 2- 4 times a year. I'm going to guess the club has at least 6-12 members so each hosts once every 6-3 months) abuse support groups , veterans groups , AA type groups , menopause  groups, prostrate cancer survivors ,  lingerie parties , make-up parties , botox parties , poker nights , any lecture for a private group , discussing a legal or financial plan for the ski club ,  romance novel book club , discussing an invention idea , foodies , football fanatics ,  WOW nights , political activism , the Justin Beiber fan club any of these things might make a group say no non-members and some are men's only some woman's some mixed gender.   IF you don't like the club rules don't join the club or change the rules.   

[lowspark]

Again, we have no idea what "prepare" entails. I kinda doubt the members of the club, even the organizer, are giving the house the white glove test.

I mean, it's a group of guys. Most likely they'd be happy with some store-bought chips, dips & beer or similar.

[TootsNYC]

Well, that's a little stereotyping as well.

But true--we have no idea what "prepare" entails, and I would bet each member is entitled to define it as they would like. Especially the "clean for a certain value of 'clean' " idea.