Author Topic: Dear Abby 2/4/14 - Men's Only Club  (Read 15257 times)

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bloo

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Re: Dear Abby 2/4/14 - Men's Only Club
« Reply #165 on: February 13, 2014, 11:30:07 AM »
It's interesting that on the Bunco thread there was almost uniform agreement that the husband was rude for staying in the room and not making himself scarce while the game was ongoing.  I'm not sure what the difference is between that and this.  It is still the club telling someone how to behave in their own home. 

If the issue is the "no skirts", then it is key to separate the phrasing, which we only know about through the wife who appears to be a biased source, from idea that it's a men only club with no women allowed in the house during the meetings. 

I'll put it another way, what if it is a club for survivors of sexual abuse and they want it to be only men or only women?  Would not wanting the spouses of the survivors in the house be rude in that instance?

I think the difference that some people are seeing is that for Bunco, the spouse could be in the house and could even make a brief appearance. Here, the spouse is being told to completely vacate the house for the duration of the meeting.

In addition, the husband in the Bunco thread wasn't just there, he was insinuating his presence into the ongoing conversation in the dining room. In effect, he was not only in the house and in the room, he was making himself a part of the event.

Since I started the bunco thread, I'll just repeat what I have stated which is that I do think the wife is rude. My stance is the same in both threads. Member spouse is rude for agreeing to host knowing the other spouse will be there. Non-member spouse is rude for deliberately staying when the rules of the club say to leave. Club has the right to set the rules and any member who finds them unreasonable or unworkable can try to change them, but failing that, should resign membership in the club.

I agree. A club can make whatever silly rules it wants, and husband and wife would need to communicate how one of them joining the club affects the family and what level of intrusion is acceptable to everyone. The circumstances in the Dear Abby letter simply wouldn't happen in our household because our friends are more couple-oriented in these parts. There are some Girl's Nites but we never hear of Guys' Nite*, which may be a bit unfair as my DH would like to have something similar (although 'no skirts' would not fly and all the men we know would take care of the cleaning, prep and some cooking). I'd be willing to make myself scarce but expected to leave the home? Nah. Not unless I felt like it. But that would be communicated upon consideration of joining such a club or group.

I, personally, find the...rules of 'no skirts' and that the skirts need to do the cooking and cleaning misogynist and silly but if someone else wants to get a club together and participate in that then DH and I are free to not participate if we don't like the rules.

So I guess even something distasteful (to me) is not necessarily rude.

*DH mostly hunts and fishes by himself, but will occasionally join a buddy or a group of buddies to do those things. He doesnt' appear to get together for dinner and/or a movie like my girlfriends occasionally do, though. I think he'd like to. But other friends seem to prefer the company of their spouses or couples-only things. I know for a fact that some of the guys prefer the company of their wives because their wives will give them all kinds of heck if they wanted to do a Guys' Nite. Which is sad.

TootsNYC

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Re: Dear Abby 2/4/14 - Men's Only Club
« Reply #166 on: February 13, 2014, 11:32:33 AM »
Quote
rules of 'no skirts' and that the skirts need to do the cooking and cleaning misogynist and silly

I don't think the part I crossed out *is* a rule of the club.
I think that's the conclusion that the LW has drawn from her objection to the rule.

lady_disdain

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Re: Dear Abby 2/4/14 - Men's Only Club
« Reply #167 on: February 13, 2014, 09:03:11 PM »
Let's see.

There is a club that says its members must wear red dresses and purple hats. But it is rude to tell people how to dress, so the club is rude? No. The members accepted that rule. Since it only affects the club member, it is up to them (except if there is budget concerns over the price of the dress and hat).

There is a club that says everyone must meet in a cafe once a month. If someone can't go to the cafe, then they shouldn't be a member.

A different club organizes outings. If someone can't go to the outings, they shouldn't be a member.

This club asks for an empty house when hosting. If the husband can't offer that, he shouldn't be a member. Simple.

Now, how the husband settles this with his wife is a relationship matter. If he just tells her "get out of the house", he is being rude. If he asks her if she minds leaving for a couple of hours, she can say yes or no. They can make a bargain (she gets a mani-pedi during this time, which her husband pays for from his fun budget). If she agrees and then backs out (without prior warning, like the Bunco husband), then she is being rude.

However, if his wife refuses point blank to leave the house to him for a few hours, then he can't fulfill the requirements to be a member of the club. So sorry.

lollylegs

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Re: Dear Abby 2/4/14 - Men's Only Club
« Reply #168 on: February 14, 2014, 12:59:46 AM »
Let's see.

There is a club that says its members must wear red dresses and purple hats. But it is rude to tell people how to dress, so the club is rude? No. The members accepted that rule. Since it only affects the club member, it is up to them (except if there is budget concerns over the price of the dress and hat).

Nope, it's more like the rule that is that the member's spouses must wear red dresses and purple hats.

VorFemme

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Re: Dear Abby 2/4/14 - Men's Only Club
« Reply #169 on: February 14, 2014, 08:54:42 AM »
Let's see.

There is a club that says its members must wear red dresses and purple hats. But it is rude to tell people how to dress, so the club is rude? No. The members accepted that rule. Since it only affects the club member, it is up to them (except if there is budget concerns over the price of the dress and hat).

There is a club that says everyone must meet in a cafe once a month. If someone can't go to the cafe, then they shouldn't be a member.

A different club organizes outings. If someone can't go to the outings, they shouldn't be a member.

This club asks for an empty house when hosting. If the husband can't offer that, he shouldn't be a member. Simple.

Now, how the husband settles this with his wife is a relationship matter. If he just tells her "get out of the house", he is being rude. If he asks her if she minds leaving for a couple of hours, she can say yes or no. They can make a bargain (she gets a mani-pedi during this time, which her husband pays for from his fun budget). If she agrees and then backs out (without prior warning, like the Bunco husband), then she is being rude.

However, if his wife refuses point blank to leave the house to him for a few hours, then he can't fulfill the requirements to be a member of the club. So sorry.

Purple dresses & red hats for the majority of members - the red dresses & purple hats are the leaders of the group or celebrating their birthday that month - at least in the group that I know of (by belonging to it).

Most of us wear purple tops and neutral skirts or pants - as head to toe purple makes even a skinny woman look like she might be a close relative of Barney the Dinosaur!

And there are events, once in a while, that spouses or other family members can come along to - but not all events are open to those who aren't at least eligible for membership but might want to try the event before joining....
« Last Edit: February 14, 2014, 08:57:40 AM by VorFemme »
Let sleeping dragons be.......morning breath......need I say more?

Pandora

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Re: Dear Abby 2/4/14 - Men's Only Club
« Reply #170 on: February 14, 2014, 01:44:08 PM »
My DH would be told to hire the Merry Maids and visit Stew Leanard's for his snack trays.

Pandora

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Re: Dear Abby 2/4/14 - Men's Only Club
« Reply #171 on: February 14, 2014, 02:11:03 PM »
Two words come to my mind!  "Stepford Wives"... the original 1975 version  >:D

Sorry  >:D

 Not exactly, the wife would have to stay there and play waitress.

 

lady_disdain

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Re: Dear Abby 2/4/14 - Men's Only Club
« Reply #172 on: February 14, 2014, 06:35:40 PM »
Let's see.

There is a club that says its members must wear red dresses and purple hats. But it is rude to tell people how to dress, so the club is rude? No. The members accepted that rule. Since it only affects the club member, it is up to them (except if there is budget concerns over the price of the dress and hat).

Nope, it's more like the rule that is that the member's spouses must wear red dresses and purple hats.

Did you read the entire post? I was going through all sort of club rules that could be seen as impolite (telling people how to dress, where to go, etc). I address the spouse issue at the end.

TootsNYC

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Re: Dear Abby 2/4/14 - Men's Only Club
« Reply #173 on: February 14, 2014, 06:38:26 PM »
Let's see.

There is a club that says its members must wear red dresses and purple hats. But it is rude to tell people how to dress, so the club is rude? No. The members accepted that rule. Since it only affects the club member, it is up to them (except if there is budget concerns over the price of the dress and hat).

Nope, it's more like the rule that is that the member's spouses must wear red dresses and purple hats.

I disagree. Because I do not believe that the club's rules are that the wives must cook and clean. I just don't.

I think the letter writer is drawing that conclusion herself. The structure and word choice of her letter make me think so.
   And I have a hard time thinking that it would even OCCUR to any club organizer, let alone that the entire group of guys would say OK. They might say OK to the idea of being able to hang out in a female-free zone, but I just do not believe that the clubs rule is: "Your wife has to cook and clean to prepare the party space for us."

shhh its me

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Re: Dear Abby 2/4/14 - Men's Only Club
« Reply #174 on: February 14, 2014, 06:51:41 PM »
Let's see.

There is a club that says its members must wear red dresses and purple hats. But it is rude to tell people how to dress, so the club is rude? No. The members accepted that rule. Since it only affects the club member, it is up to them (except if there is budget concerns over the price of the dress and hat).

Nope, it's more like the rule that is that the member's spouses must wear red dresses and purple hats.

I disagree. Because I do not believe that the club's rules are that the wives must cook and clean. I just don't.

I think the letter writer is drawing that conclusion herself. The structure and word choice of her letter make me think so.
   And I have a hard time thinking that it would even OCCUR to any club organizer, let alone that the entire group of guys would say OK. They might say OK to the idea of being able to hang out in a female-free zone, but I just do not believe that the clubs rule is: "Your wife has to cook and clean to prepare the party space for us."

Well if there was a club with those rules (ie your wife needs to cook for us then leave) a husband who joined , would very likely have this type of attitude in general.

lollylegs

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Re: Dear Abby 2/4/14 - Men's Only Club
« Reply #175 on: February 14, 2014, 09:09:44 PM »
Let's see.

There is a club that says its members must wear red dresses and purple hats. But it is rude to tell people how to dress, so the club is rude? No. The members accepted that rule. Since it only affects the club member, it is up to them (except if there is budget concerns over the price of the dress and hat).

Nope, it's more like the rule that is that the member's spouses must wear red dresses and purple hats.

Did you read the entire post? I was going through all sort of club rules that could be seen as impolite (telling people how to dress, where to go, etc). I address the spouse issue at the end.

Yes, I read the entire post. I read the part where you said it's between the husband and wife. Your analogy is still flawed.

Let's see.

There is a club that says its members must wear red dresses and purple hats. But it is rude to tell people how to dress, so the club is rude? No. The members accepted that rule. Since it only affects the club member, it is up to them (except if there is budget concerns over the price of the dress and hat).

Nope, it's more like the rule that is that the member's spouses must wear red dresses and purple hats.

I disagree. Because I do not believe that the club's rules are that the wives must cook and clean. I just don't.

I think the letter writer is drawing that conclusion herself. The structure and word choice of her letter make me think so.
   And I have a hard time thinking that it would even OCCUR to any club organizer, let alone that the entire group of guys would say OK. They might say OK to the idea of being able to hang out in a female-free zone, but I just do not believe that the clubs rule is: "Your wife has to cook and clean to prepare the party space for us."

I'm not talking about the cooking and cleaning part, I'm talking about the wife having to leave the house part. I'm enjoying the conversation and the differing opinions but I'm firmly convinced that it's rude to make rules about when people are and aren't allowed in their own house.

Mary Lennox

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Re: Dear Abby 2/4/14 - Men's Only Club
« Reply #176 on: February 14, 2014, 09:53:12 PM »
I would love to see a Women Only group start up with all the wives who meet at the same time at a different house.

"Sorry dear, no time to cook for your meeting. I'm off to my own meeting."

At least that would solve the "no skirts" rule!

Vall

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Re: Dear Abby 2/4/14 - Men's Only Club
« Reply #177 on: February 15, 2014, 08:10:05 AM »
If the club actually had a rule that all wives of members must cook and clean for the meetings, wouldn't the club also need a rule that all members must be married?  Unless this is a couples-only retirement home, there are probably men there who are divorced, widowed, or who never married.

Even if they do have this requirement (and I think this is very doubtful), I think the only rude part about it is that the husband voluntarily chose to join the club, after being told the rules.  The rule would only effect the wife if the husband voluntarily chooses to join the club.  The club is not inflicting the rule on the wife--the husband would be responsible for inflicting the rule on his wife by joining.

LifeOnPluto

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Re: Dear Abby 2/4/14 - Men's Only Club
« Reply #178 on: February 16, 2014, 01:54:47 AM »
Let's see.

There is a club that says its members must wear red dresses and purple hats. But it is rude to tell people how to dress, so the club is rude? No. The members accepted that rule. Since it only affects the club member, it is up to them (except if there is budget concerns over the price of the dress and hat).

Nope, it's more like the rule that is that the member's spouses must wear red dresses and purple hats.

Did you read the entire post? I was going through all sort of club rules that could be seen as impolite (telling people how to dress, where to go, etc). I address the spouse issue at the end.

Yes, I read the entire post. I read the part where you said it's between the husband and wife. Your analogy is still flawed.

Let's see.

There is a club that says its members must wear red dresses and purple hats. But it is rude to tell people how to dress, so the club is rude? No. The members accepted that rule. Since it only affects the club member, it is up to them (except if there is budget concerns over the price of the dress and hat).

Nope, it's more like the rule that is that the member's spouses must wear red dresses and purple hats.

I disagree. Because I do not believe that the club's rules are that the wives must cook and clean. I just don't.

I think the letter writer is drawing that conclusion herself. The structure and word choice of her letter make me think so.
   And I have a hard time thinking that it would even OCCUR to any club organizer, let alone that the entire group of guys would say OK. They might say OK to the idea of being able to hang out in a female-free zone, but I just do not believe that the clubs rule is: "Your wife has to cook and clean to prepare the party space for us."

I'm not talking about the cooking and cleaning part, I'm talking about the wife having to leave the house part. I'm enjoying the conversation and the differing opinions but I'm firmly convinced that it's rude to make rules about when people are and aren't allowed in their own house.

I agree. Perhaps the clothes analogy could have been better expressed as "spouses must NOT wear the colour blue when the Club is meeting". But such a rule would still be rude.

Hmmmmm

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Re: Dear Abby 2/4/14 - Men's Only Club
« Reply #179 on: February 16, 2014, 10:27:02 AM »
Let's see.

There is a club that says its members must wear red dresses and purple hats. But it is rude to tell people how to dress, so the club is rude? No. The members accepted that rule. Since it only affects the club member, it is up to them (except if there is budget concerns over the price of the dress and hat).

Nope, it's more like the rule that is that the member's spouses must wear red dresses and purple hats.

Did you read the entire post? I was going through all sort of club rules that could be seen as impolite (telling people how to dress, where to go, etc). I address the spouse issue at the end.

Yes, I read the entire post. I read the part where you said it's between the husband and wife. Your analogy is still flawed.

Let's see.

There is a club that says its members must wear red dresses and purple hats. But it is rude to tell people how to dress, so the club is rude? No. The members accepted that rule. Since it only affects the club member, it is up to them (except if there is budget concerns over the price of the dress and hat).

Nope, it's more like the rule that is that the member's spouses must wear red dresses and purple hats.

I disagree. Because I do not believe that the club's rules are that the wives must cook and clean. I just don't.

I think the letter writer is drawing that conclusion herself. The structure and word choice of her letter make me think so.
   And I have a hard time thinking that it would even OCCUR to any club organizer, let alone that the entire group of guys would say OK. They might say OK to the idea of being able to hang out in a female-free zone, but I just do not believe that the clubs rule is: "Your wife has to cook and clean to prepare the party space for us."

I'm not talking about the cooking and cleaning part, I'm talking about the wife having to leave the house part. I'm enjoying the conversation and the differing opinions but I'm firmly convinced that it's rude to make rules about when people are and aren't allowed in their own house.

But so many people wouldn't have an issue with the rule. So I don't find having a rule that only club members may be present in the home when the club is meeting is rude.

The rudeness comes when a family member joins a club with this rule when the other family members do not agree with the rule. So the husband is rude for joining a club with the rule since his wife doesn't want to leave. The wife is wrong for wanting to change a club rule for a group yo whom she doesn't belong.

But I'll never see how the rule is wrong.