Author Topic: Daycare photos - where's my child?  (Read 7364 times)

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lollylegs

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Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
« Reply #45 on: February 12, 2014, 06:45:22 PM »
I'm reminded a little of the candy jar thread. This is a nice little extra that your daycare centre is providing and you're complaining that they're doing it wrong. I think it would be nice of you to give them a light, sorry I was a bit silly, apology.

That's an interesting perspective - all of my friends children are in different daycare centres (different brands, philosophies, locations) and they all get a daily email with photos of the kids and telling them what they've been doing.  The exact style and content vary, of course.   I believe they do keep some paper records in the room as well on the kids, but I've never seen them.    The book tells us what activities the children have done today and pictures of them engaging in those activities, the email also tells us what lunch was served.   Is the email book an Australian thing??      (Actually somewhat related, one of my friend's daughter just started daycare at a different centre and is really, really struggling with separation anxiety - she literally cries all day - and my friend said to me a couple of weeks ago "You know it's not been a good day when there's no picture of your child in the email!"  Because in her case, her child was crying so much that she didn't participate in any activities and wasn't playing at all, she just sat and cried all day.   She wasn't upset about her child not being in the pictures, because she knew why and was dealing with a much bigger problem, but clearly she thought it was an abnormal thing for a child not to be included!)

Yes, I'm aware the most Australian daycare centres are doing this now, my son's daycare does it as well. Just like many workplaces have a candy jar, but it's still not something that the daycare centre or the office is required to provide. And this is why it reminds me of the other thread - it's become such a commonplace thing in your mind that you're seeing it as part of the essential service and overreacting when your son isn't included, instead of being grateful for all the other days that you have received photos of your children.

Yes, they know their kids, but it sounds like they grab the camera and take pics through out the day.  They are not going to remember who they took a pic of, and compare that with who the other teachers took.  Seeing as how it's never happened before, I think it's just something disappointing that you need to let go.

They upload all the photos onto the laptop, then go through and pick ones to use for the report.   So they can see the big picture of what they have before putting it together.     

Yes, I will obviously let it go, as was always my intention.   This was most definitely a retrospective question!     (And yes, I know it's a trivial matter.   All of my etiquette questions are trivial matters.  My real problems I deal with in real life not on the internet  :)). 

Have you ever worked in childcare? I only ask because you keep impressing on us how easy it should be for the daycare providers to include pictures of everyone but, speaking as a former daycare provider, it's not. It's really not. As a mother yourself, you should know how often your child does something cute but by the time you get the camera and take a snap he's stopped being cute and is now facing away, crying, picking his nose, etc. Now imagine doing that with twelve kids.

So you take your pictures all day long, not really paying attention to how many you've got of whom because you've got twelve kids to look after, meals to prepare, nappies to change, cleaning, paperwork, tantrums, naps, and then you upload all the photos and maybe you notice that today you didn't get a picture of Cellach's kid but hey, you've included him every other day so it should be okay, you don't have the time to try and get another photo now. Or maybe you don't even notice because you've got a bunch of other stuff to do and it's not like you're putting together a professional yearbook, it's just an overview of the day so parents get an idea of what their children have been doing. It happens. It doesn't mean anything.

If you're concerned that it means your child has had a bad day, then ask the providers if he had a bad day. But pointing out that your child wasn't included... I'm sure that it really was light and breezy, the way that you brought it up, but I know how lesser complaints than this can turn into big deals and if I were the provider, I might be worried that you were going to make this into a thing. Which is why I think it would be a kindness to say, "I was a bit silly yesterday, sorry."

JenJay posted before me and her wording is perfect.

whatsanenigma

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Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
« Reply #46 on: February 12, 2014, 06:46:04 PM »
Re the crying - I'd like to offer you a little hug because it sounds like you had a rough, emotional day, and I've been there. Stoopid pregnancy hormones!

I don't think you owe the daycare providers an apology, but it might be nice to say something like "Sorry if I overreacted about the photo situation. I was worried that DS had a bad day and didn't participate in any of the fun. I realize he was probably just busy in another area when each picture was taken. I really love the daily recaps, thank you for sending them!"

I agree with this. 

Ceallach

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Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
« Reply #47 on: February 12, 2014, 06:57:43 PM »
Re the crying - I'd like to offer you a little hug because it sounds like you had a rough, emotional day, and I've been there. Stoopid pregnancy hormones!

I don't think you owe the daycare providers an apology, but it might be nice to say something like "Sorry if I overreacted about the photo situation. I was worried that DS had a bad day and didn't participate in any of the fun. I realize he was probably just busy in another area when each picture was taken. I really love the daily recaps, thank you for sending them!"

It was quite absurd, thanks for the hug.

I was toying with the idea of saying something to the receptionist this morning, seeing it was her I emailed, but she didn't mention it so I hesitated.   She was very friendly and lovely as always, we stopped and chatted about a couple of things.    The "room leader" (head teacher) who is responsible for the book does the later start so wasn't there, but it's her I think I should say something to, because really it's almost as if I was complaining about her which isn't fair.   I normally talk to her a fair bit at pick-up so I will say something to her about how I was a bit disappointed at the time and worried about what he'd been doing all day, but I do understand that it isn't always easy to get them all in there so I will try to be more understanding. 

Oh and they definitely know how much I love the books - I will often say things like "I loved that photo on Monday!" or "That activity looked so fun" etc.    And when the book is a bit later being sent out (I normally pick up DS around 4:30) I'll ask excitedly on the way out what time the books are being sent.    They get a lot of positive feedback and thanks from me on a regular basis.   When they had an email glitch for a couple of days and couldn't do daybooks, the room leader would show me the photos of my son on the laptop at pick-up instead (they weren't doing that for everybody it was because they knew I wanted to see the pictures!)   :)   
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TootsNYC

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Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
« Reply #48 on: February 12, 2014, 07:00:05 PM »

...it seemed a very tiny thing to make sure there's at least a glimpse of each child. ...
As I said, I think that's asking a lot more than you think it is, to ask them to do that every day.

It's really more work than you think--it would take a quick "photo dump" and turn it into a longer, structured chore.
You said the receptionist sends it earlier or later, "depending on how busy she is." So, if she gets busy enough to have to put off the sending of that email, then she is too busy to have to stop and run down a checklist for every single kid in every single class for the daycare.
   I have done things like this, checking against a list to be sure everyone is there--believe me, it is WAY more work than you realize.


Also: those pics aren't really intended so much to show you your child; you know what he looks like. They're to show you what the center is doing during the day.  And you have info that you can then use to ask your child: "I saw you guys played with trucks today, how was it?"  "Did you like the bananas for snack?"

I have that same disappointment when my kid doesn't show up in the pictures. But it doesn't mean anything, and it's not fair to ask.

Hugs, and also--a compliment!!


Look at you--you had a little twinge that told you something was off with your choice.

I was just feeling uneasy about having mentioned it at all, which it seems from this thread was the appropriate way to be feeling!!       


 That's some good instincts! And this is one of those "practice" situations. Next time, when you think it through, you'll make a decision that -doesn't- leave you with a twinge.


I say let this totally drop; I don't think an apology is necessary. Sort of a "least said, soonest mended" thing.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2014, 07:07:57 PM by TootsNYC »

Ceallach

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Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
« Reply #49 on: February 12, 2014, 07:07:28 PM »
I'm reminded a little of the candy jar thread. This is a nice little extra that your daycare centre is providing and you're complaining that they're doing it wrong. I think it would be nice of you to give them a light, sorry I was a bit silly, apology.

That's an interesting perspective - all of my friends children are in different daycare centres (different brands, philosophies, locations) and they all get a daily email with photos of the kids and telling them what they've been doing.  The exact style and content vary, of course.   I believe they do keep some paper records in the room as well on the kids, but I've never seen them.    The book tells us what activities the children have done today and pictures of them engaging in those activities, the email also tells us what lunch was served.   Is the email book an Australian thing??      (Actually somewhat related, one of my friend's daughter just started daycare at a different centre and is really, really struggling with separation anxiety - she literally cries all day - and my friend said to me a couple of weeks ago "You know it's not been a good day when there's no picture of your child in the email!"  Because in her case, her child was crying so much that she didn't participate in any activities and wasn't playing at all, she just sat and cried all day.   She wasn't upset about her child not being in the pictures, because she knew why and was dealing with a much bigger problem, but clearly she thought it was an abnormal thing for a child not to be included!)

Yes, I'm aware the most Australian daycare centres are doing this now, my son's daycare does it as well. Just like many workplaces have a candy jar, but it's still not something that the daycare centre or the office is required to provide. And this is why it reminds me of the other thread - it's become such a commonplace thing in your mind that you're seeing it as part of the essential service and overreacting when your son isn't included, instead of being grateful for all the other days that you have received photos of your children.

Yes, they know their kids, but it sounds like they grab the camera and take pics through out the day.  They are not going to remember who they took a pic of, and compare that with who the other teachers took.  Seeing as how it's never happened before, I think it's just something disappointing that you need to let go.

They upload all the photos onto the laptop, then go through and pick ones to use for the report.   So they can see the big picture of what they have before putting it together.     

Yes, I will obviously let it go, as was always my intention.   This was most definitely a retrospective question!     (And yes, I know it's a trivial matter.   All of my etiquette questions are trivial matters.  My real problems I deal with in real life not on the internet  :)). 

Have you ever worked in childcare? I only ask because you keep impressing on us how easy it should be for the daycare providers to include pictures of everyone but, speaking as a former daycare provider, it's not. It's really not. As a mother yourself, you should know how often your child does something cute but by the time you get the camera and take a snap he's stopped being cute and is now facing away, crying, picking his nose, etc. Now imagine doing that with twelve kids.

So you take your pictures all day long, not really paying attention to how many you've got of whom because you've got twelve kids to look after, meals to prepare, nappies to change, cleaning, paperwork, tantrums, naps, and then you upload all the photos and maybe you notice that today you didn't get a picture of Cellach's kid but hey, you've included him every other day so it should be okay, you don't have the time to try and get another photo now. Or maybe you don't even notice because you've got a bunch of other stuff to do and it's not like you're putting together a professional yearbook, it's just an overview of the day so parents get an idea of what their children have been doing. It happens. It doesn't mean anything.

If you're concerned that it means your child has had a bad day, then ask the providers if he had a bad day. But pointing out that your child wasn't included... I'm sure that it really was light and breezy, the way that you brought it up, but I know how lesser complaints than this can turn into big deals and if I were the provider, I might be worried that you were going to make this into a thing. Which is why I think it would be a kindness to say, "I was a bit silly yesterday, sorry."

JenJay posted before me and her wording is perfect.

I've done nannying and babysitting, but no I haven't worked in childcare.   When I was younger I spent full days nannying for a family of 6 kids under the age of 8 including toddler twins and an infant (and yes, it was the chaos it sounds).    I'm not in any way suggesting their job is easy and I don't need a lecture on the challenges they face.   Like I said, I'm a parent who has never demanded anything - I let them set the routine, and do what they need to do to make the day work.   I definitely understand that they need to be trusted to get on with it, because it's challenging wrangling that many kids.   Each teacher has 3-4 toddlers each in their care, each eating and sleeping at different times. And they manage to do art activities and music activities every single day!  It's a big job.

When I made the point you are referring to it wasn't to suggest that "it's easy" it was just to point out that if they're already assigning a teacher to sit down and carefully select 12 or more photos from the computer surely it doesn't take much longer to check that the ones you select cover all the kids, instead of covering all but 1 kid.   I still believe that's a valid point.  (Although, as others have mentioned, if there are NO photos of that kid it might not be possible to rectify at that point). 
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QueenfaninCA

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Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
« Reply #50 on: February 12, 2014, 07:10:45 PM »
I find it interesting a few people are commenting on how many kids there are and how hard it would be to keep track.   I pop in and out twice per day (drop off and pick up) and yet I know the names of nearly every single child in that room.   The ones I don't know it's because they are brand new in the past couple of weeks!   (Start of the year, new kids).    Given the low staff turnover and that they spend all day with them I'd be surprised if they couldn't tell from a glance who was who and who was missing.   They don't run a routine in that room, the kids each have their own schedule based on their needs, yet the teachers know exactly who needs to sleep, who needs to eat, who needs a bottle etc.     So they definitely know their kids!   (And yes, I agree that given they're doing all that you could argue that they then don't have as much time to devote to the book.  But my point is that they *do* devote extensive time to the book, despite doing all of these other things).   Oh well, will be interesting to see what happens today!

The time it takes to check has almost nothing to do with how well they know the kids. If more than five kids are involved it simply doesn't work to glance at the pictures to makes sure everyone is in at least one of them. You actually have to have a list of all kids (on paper or in your brain) and go through the pictures kid by kid to check.

TootsNYC

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Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
« Reply #51 on: February 12, 2014, 07:11:03 PM »

When I made the point you are referring to it wasn't to suggest that "it's easy" it was just to point out that if they're already assigning a teacher to sit down and carefully select 12 or more photos from the computer surely it doesn't take much longer to check that the ones you select cover all the kids, instead of covering all but 1 kid.   I still believe that's a valid point.  (Although, as others have mentioned, if there are NO photos of that kid it might not be possible to rectify at that point).

It would make that task about 6 times longer. Right now, it's probably about 2 minutes, including boot-up time.
And they're considering things even then--are the right activities represented, did they get the tent the kids made, do they have a group to maximize the chances of all the kids included, did they spot any particularly nice ones, done.

Believe me, it is not as quick an add-on as you think. Every day? Your kid will be in there tomorrow, and you'll be picking him up in just a few hours.

lollylegs

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Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
« Reply #52 on: February 12, 2014, 07:14:18 PM »
I've done nannying and babysitting, but no I haven't worked in childcare.   When I was younger I spent full days nannying for a family of 6 kids under the age of 8 including toddler twins and an infant (and yes, it was the chaos it sounds).    I'm not in any way suggesting their job is easy and I don't need a lecture on the challenges they face.   Like I said, I'm a parent who has never demanded anything - I let them set the routine, and do what they need to do to make the day work.   I definitely understand that they need to be trusted to get on with it, because it's challenging wrangling that many kids.   Each teacher has 3-4 toddlers each in their care, each eating and sleeping at different times. And they manage to do art activities and music activities every single day!  It's a big job.

When I made the point you are referring to it wasn't to suggest that "it's easy" it was just to point out that if they're already assigning a teacher to sit down and carefully select 12 or more photos from the computer surely it doesn't take much longer to check that the ones you select cover all the kids, instead of covering all but 1 kid.   I still believe that's a valid point.  (Although, as others have mentioned, if there are NO photos of that kid it might not be possible to rectify at that point). 

And as a few of us have pointed out, yes, it does take that much longer and requires time and effort that the providers might not have.

The thing is, you keep saying that it's not a big deal but then when someone says that you're overreacting or provides a reason why your child might have been forgotten, you've got a counterpoint about how he should have been included. It kind of feels like you're posting for validation.

Oh and they definitely know how much I love the books - I will often say things like "I loved that photo on Monday!" or "That activity looked so fun" etc.    And when the book is a bit later being sent out (I normally pick up DS around 4:30) I'll ask excitedly on the way out what time the books are being sent.    They get a lot of positive feedback and thanks from me on a regular basis.   When they had an email glitch for a couple of days and couldn't do daybooks, the room leader would show me the photos of my son on the laptop at pick-up instead (they weren't doing that for everybody it was because they knew I wanted to see the pictures!)   :)   

I'm happy to see this - so often these things become a thankless task where you never receive a thank you but the parents will let you know when they're not happy about something! So it's good that you do let them know how much you appreciate their efforts.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2014, 07:17:40 PM by lollylegs »

Ceallach

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Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
« Reply #53 on: February 12, 2014, 07:15:22 PM »
...that not every child gets a photo in there every day ...

This is very likely true--you don't check every day to be sure everyone else's kid is in there, do you?

Quote
... he's never not been in there at all before...
There's a first time for everything. And, you don't know how often other kids have "not been in there at all."

Quote
...it seemed a very tiny thing to make sure there's at least a glimpse of each child. ...
As I said, I think that's asking a lot more than you think it is, to ask them to do that every day.

It's really more work than you think--it would take a quick "photo dump" and turn it into a longer, structured chore.
You said the receptionist sends it earlier or later, "depending on how busy she is." So, if she gets busy enough to have to put off the sending of that email, then she is too busy to have to stop and run down a checklist for every single kid in every single class for the daycare.
   I have done things like this, checking to be sure everyone is there--believe me, it is WAY more work than you realize.
Quote
I don't think any other kids were left out based on a quick headcount.  (I just checked specifically to give you an idea of the context).   

But you don't know what has happened on other days with other kids.

I do think you shouldn't have called. And I don't think you should have persisted in mentioning anything after they said, "Don't worry, not every kid makes it in every day."

Also: those pics aren't really intended so much to show you your child; you know what he looks like. They're to show you what the center is doing during the day.  And you have info that you can then use to ask your child: "I saw you guys played with trucks today, how was it?"  "Did you like the bananas for snack?"

I have that same disappointment when my kid doesn't show up in the pictures. But it doesn't mean anything, and it's not fair to ask.

I'm not sure if you've read through the whole thread as a few of your points don't make much sense to me.   Sure I can ask my 12 month old if he liked the bananas but he's probably going to make some unintelligible noises and throw a ball at me.... needs to work on those communication skills still.   ;)   Not a great source of information.   And no I don't expect the receptionist to match the photos off against a list... all she does is send the email, she has nothing to do with the actual book being put together.   This is done by the head teacher, she uploads all of the photos to her laptop and then goes through and selects the ones she wants to use.  She knows all 12 children, which is the max number in that room on any day.   (This centre doesn't offer casual days so there is no variation in who attends unless they are away/sick.   The exact same kids are there on the same days, we pay for the same fixed days regardless). 

Also, I'm very glad you said I shouldn't have called... seeing I didn't call.    There were no phone calls involved in this situation.   They sent me an email, I replied to the email.   It is a much more minor situation than most posters seem to think. 
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TootsNYC

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Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
« Reply #54 on: February 12, 2014, 07:16:09 PM »
and you shouldn't have emailed.

sorry to get the verbs wrong.

And you can talk to your child about what's in the pictures even if he can't answer.

Ceallach

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Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
« Reply #55 on: February 12, 2014, 07:32:14 PM »
I've done nannying and babysitting, but no I haven't worked in childcare.   When I was younger I spent full days nannying for a family of 6 kids under the age of 8 including toddler twins and an infant (and yes, it was the chaos it sounds).    I'm not in any way suggesting their job is easy and I don't need a lecture on the challenges they face.   Like I said, I'm a parent who has never demanded anything - I let them set the routine, and do what they need to do to make the day work.   I definitely understand that they need to be trusted to get on with it, because it's challenging wrangling that many kids.   Each teacher has 3-4 toddlers each in their care, each eating and sleeping at different times. And they manage to do art activities and music activities every single day!  It's a big job.

When I made the point you are referring to it wasn't to suggest that "it's easy" it was just to point out that if they're already assigning a teacher to sit down and carefully select 12 or more photos from the computer surely it doesn't take much longer to check that the ones you select cover all the kids, instead of covering all but 1 kid.   I still believe that's a valid point.  (Although, as others have mentioned, if there are NO photos of that kid it might not be possible to rectify at that point). 

And as a few of us have pointed out, yes, it does take that much longer and requires time and effort that the providers might not have.

The thing is, you keep saying that it's not a big deal but then when someone says that you're overreacting or provides a reason why your child might have been forgotten, you've got a counterpoint about how he should have been included. It kind of feels like your posting for validation.

Oh and they definitely know how much I love the books - I will often say things like "I loved that photo on Monday!" or "That activity looked so fun" etc.    And when the book is a bit later being sent out (I normally pick up DS around 4:30) I'll ask excitedly on the way out what time the books are being sent.    They get a lot of positive feedback and thanks from me on a regular basis.   When they had an email glitch for a couple of days and couldn't do daybooks, the room leader would show me the photos of my son on the laptop at pick-up instead (they weren't doing that for everybody it was because they knew I wanted to see the pictures!)   :)   

I'm happy to see this - so often these things become a thankless task where you never receive a thank you but the parents will let you know when they're not happy about something! So it's good that you do let them know how much you appreciate their efforts.

It's a discussion forum, I'm simply engaging in the discussion.    I think I've given plenty of mea culpa on some points posters have raised which I realised were valid.  Other points I don't fully agree with.    Am I required to pick one side 100%?     I appreciate all of the feedback but it doesn't have to be all or nothing.   And no, I am not looking for validation.   Given the majority of the thread has been firmly in the "you were wrong" camp, I would probably have run away after the first page if validation was what I was seeking.   I really wish it didn't have to come down to that after all of this dialogue.

I do agree that some of the points that were already addressed/discussed earlier in the discussion have been raised again and we are now going in circles, so I have been repeating myself which I know from experiences is tiresome for those following the thread.   

Thanks everybody for your comments!   Like I said, this is a very, very minor situation.  But etiquette covers the minor day-to-day social interactions we have, so that's why I posted it here.   
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TootsNYC

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Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
« Reply #56 on: February 12, 2014, 07:33:51 PM »
Quote
Thanks everybody for your comments!   Like I said, this is a very, very minor situation.  But etiquette covers the minor day-to-day social interactions we have, so that's why I posted it here.   

Yeah, I think this is one of those situations in which something that is mostly interesting is posted for discussion, and sometimes it's seen as having a bigger impact on the OP than it really did.

Sharnita

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Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
« Reply #57 on: February 12, 2014, 07:39:58 PM »
I definitely wouldn't depend on these photos as evidence that your child is happy.  If you have persistant concerns about how to figure determine this, talk to whomever you need to talk to in order to identify a reliable measure.

Ceallach

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Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
« Reply #58 on: February 12, 2014, 07:40:27 PM »
Quote
Thanks everybody for your comments!   Like I said, this is a very, very minor situation.  But etiquette covers the minor day-to-day social interactions we have, so that's why I posted it here.   

Yeah, I think this is one of those situations in which something that is mostly interesting is posted for discussion, and sometimes it's seen as having a bigger impact on the OP than it really did.

Absolutely!    I think we often react by thinking "Why is this such a big deal that they're bothering to write about it or discuss it at length?"    :)    ...sometimes the answer is just "I really don't want to get stuck into reading the criteria for our new quality standard and start writing the audit report, hanging out on eHell to discuss what happened yesterday is much more interesting...."
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Ceallach

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Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
« Reply #59 on: February 12, 2014, 07:43:26 PM »
I definitely wouldn't depend on these photos as evidence that your child is happy.  If you have persistant concerns about how to figure determine this, talk to whomever you need to talk to in order to identify a reliable measure.

It is but one cog in the wheel of things that reassure me, and I have no overall concerns.   I assure you if I had any concerns regarding his care I would be raising them with the appropriate persons, not posting about it on the internet.  Actually, if I had concerns about his care or wellbeing I wouldn't even be on the internet - I'd be with him.
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