Author Topic: Commitment Ceremony odd update #50  (Read 4382 times)

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lowspark

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Re: Commitment Ceremony odd update #50
« Reply #75 on: July 09, 2014, 10:47:45 AM »
So after getting together with them and doing some planning in the way of "This needs to be low key, etc." I find out last night they are deciding to just get wedding bands and wear them. What the what?

That just feels icky to me, though I won't say a word but..... am I the only person this feels off for?

So they are not doing the commitment ceremony at all anymore?

No. Which just leaves me so confused considering you know we were planning things and I was helping them with ideas and stuff!

I may be misinterpreting here, but this makes me think that your main issue is that you are having a hard time dealing with the cancelation of the ceremony. And that is completely understandable. You have invested not only time and effort into helping them, but you have also invested emotion. It sounds like you were entrenched in the planning of it and getting excited about it. In other words, you had a vested interest in seeing it through.

And now, they've gone and canceled it without so much as asking your opinion!

Now, obviously, it's totally their decision and it make sense that they made it without your input. But that doesn't lessen the emotional letdown you are now feeling.

So the fact that it was a commitment ceremony as opposed to a wedding might be a red herring here. If this were a couple who were planning a wedding, with you helping at the same level, and then they decided to cancel the wedding and just live together, you might be feeling the same exact way.

Yvaine

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Re: Commitment Ceremony odd update #50
« Reply #76 on: July 09, 2014, 10:56:35 AM »
So after getting together with them and doing some planning in the way of "This needs to be low key, etc." I find out last night they are deciding to just get wedding bands and wear them. What the what?

That just feels icky to me, though I won't say a word but..... am I the only person this feels off for?

Why does it bother you so much?

Rings are a symbol of commitment. They don't need to be married to wear them.

No, wedding rings are a symbol of being married. They aren't committing a crime by wearing them, but I think it trivializes marriage when people do this. You are either married or you aren't.

But rings in general can symbolize all sorts of things, and all sorts of relationship stages. If they're going around shouting "These are WEDDING rings! WEDDING! Cuz we're MARRIED!", I can see how that might be obnoxious. But people wear wedding rings, engagement rings, promise rings, etc. There are even rings like the claddagh that can symbolize different relationship stages depending on which finger you wear it on and which direction it's pointed. It's really only marketing that makes us think one kind of ring is "only" for weddings while another is "only" for engagement, etc.  I read the OP's update to mean they're just wearing plain bands and not rubbing it in anyone's face, and who cares?

Lynn2000

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Re: Commitment Ceremony odd update #50
« Reply #77 on: July 09, 2014, 11:24:53 AM »
No. Which just leaves me so confused considering you know we were planning things and I was helping them with ideas and stuff!

I may be misinterpreting here, but this makes me think that your main issue is that you are having a hard time dealing with the cancelation of the ceremony. And that is completely understandable. You have invested not only time and effort into helping them, but you have also invested emotion. It sounds like you were entrenched in the planning of it and getting excited about it. In other words, you had a vested interest in seeing it through.

And now, they've gone and canceled it without so much as asking your opinion!

Now, obviously, it's totally their decision and it make sense that they made it without your input. But that doesn't lessen the emotional letdown you are now feeling.

So the fact that it was a commitment ceremony as opposed to a wedding might be a red herring here. If this were a couple who were planning a wedding, with you helping at the same level, and then they decided to cancel the wedding and just live together, you might be feeling the same exact way.

I wondered about this too. I've had the experience of putting a lot of effort and ideas into helping someone with something, only to have them completely change their mind and scrap the whole thing. It's hard not to take that a bit personally, and wonder if maybe you somehow failed. But I think in 99% of cases it's really because of totally different factors influencing their decision.

My friend Amy and I used to have a lot of fun researching baby names for her hypothetical children. This was after she was married but before she was pregnant. I really like names so I was bringing all my resources and knowledge to bear on it. Then when she actually got pregnant, I think it kind of became less fun and more real, plus, you know, she felt she ought to consult her DH for his opinion ;) and he turned out to be surprisingly stubborn. So she and I didn't really talk about it anymore, and by the time I heard about the name contenders they were already at the "shortlist going to the hospital" stage, so I didn't feel like constructive criticism of them was welcome. And actually I don't particularly like the names she chose for her kids. But, when you pull back and look at the big picture, I'm being rather silly, because of course she and her DH are going to make the best decision for them, and there's no reason in the world why any of my ideas should be given weight just for being my ideas. It was just disappointing, because at the time I was like, "Yeah, this is something I know about, that I'm good at, that I can help her with!" and then that turned out to not be the case in the end.
~Lynn2000

Sophia

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Re: Commitment Ceremony odd update #50
« Reply #78 on: July 09, 2014, 11:59:38 AM »
Seems to me that are basically declaring themselves common-law married.  I would treat them as a married couple.

Margo

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Re: Commitment Ceremony odd update #50
« Reply #79 on: July 09, 2014, 12:10:25 PM »
So after getting together with them and doing some planning in the way of "This needs to be low key, etc." I find out last night they are deciding to just get wedding bands and wear them. What the what?

That just feels icky to me, though I won't say a word but..... am I the only person this feels off for?

Why does it bother you so much?

Rings are a symbol of commitment. They don't need to be married to wear them.

No, wedding rings are a symbol of being married. They aren't committing a crime by wearing them, but I think it trivializes marriage when people do this. You are either married or you aren't.

I find this an interesting perspective on two counts - firstly - rings are symbolic of lots of things, and it's only a wedding ring if someone choses to describe it as such. I was also interested to see that in the marriage service* rings are not essential, and if used, the Minister says "let these rings be to N and N a symbol of unending love and faithfulness" so although there are also parts of the ceremony which refer to wearing those specific rings as a sign of their marriage, the rings themselves are explicitly stated to be as symbols of love and faithfulness, not of marriage.

Of course, people can assign all sorts of symbolism to all sorts of things, so that does not stop wedding rings also being a symbol of marriage, but I don't think they can be said to be exclusively a symbol of marriage.

I  also struggle to see how it would trivialise marriage for people to wear wedding rings even if they are not legally married. Would you also consider that it triavializes marriage if someone continued to wear their wedding ring after being divorced or widowed? Or while separated? Or if someone wears their mother or father's wedding ring in memory of them?

I'm genuinely interested in why you feel that it would trivialise marriage.

(My own view tends to be that you ( general, not personal) can trivialise your *own* marriage by the way you behave, how you treat your spouse etc, but for me, if people who are not legally married try to adopt the outward appearance of marriage, that does precisely the opposite. You don't try to appear married unless you think of marriage as important.



(*Church of England, which is the one I'm most familiar with - others may vary)

gellchom

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Re: Commitment Ceremony odd update #50
« Reply #80 on: July 09, 2014, 01:00:43 PM »
So after getting together with them and doing some planning in the way of "This needs to be low key, etc." I find out last night they are deciding to just get wedding bands and wear them. What the what?

That just feels icky to me, though I won't say a word but..... am I the only person this feels off for?

So they are not doing the commitment ceremony at all anymore?

No. Which just leaves me so confused considering you know we were planning things and I was helping them with ideas and stuff!

I may be misinterpreting here, but this makes me think that your main issue is that you are having a hard time dealing with the cancelation of the ceremony. And that is completely understandable. You have invested not only time and effort into helping them, but you have also invested emotion. It sounds like you were entrenched in the planning of it and getting excited about it. In other words, you had a vested interest in seeing it through.

And now, they've gone and canceled it without so much as asking your opinion!

Now, obviously, it's totally their decision and it make sense that they made it without your input. But that doesn't lessen the emotional letdown you are now feeling.

So the fact that it was a commitment ceremony as opposed to a wedding might be a red herring here. If this were a couple who were planning a wedding, with you helping at the same level, and then they decided to cancel the wedding and just live together, you might be feeling the same exact way.

And that makes me think that the cancellation might be coloring the OP's feeling about the whole thing.  Sort of as if the couple had originally been treating the commitment ceremony as something serious and meaningful, a real transition to a different stage of life and status, even if not legally, and the OP, as their friend, was taking it seriously, too. 

But then they decide they aren't going to have the commitment ceremony -- not because they are breaking up or have decided they aren't ready for a permanent commitment: they apparently consider themselves just as committed without the ceremony, evidenced by their decision to wear those rings.  So now how meaningful ever was the commitment ceremony to them -- even though they expected people, including the OP, to take it? 

That's what would make me feel a little jerked around if I were in the OP's place, or perhaps not jerked around, but less likely to take their professions of what is meaningful  quite as seriously, as they seem inclined to change their mind about it at whim.  Including, in this case, rings.

I mean, suppose it were a regular wedding that a couple canceled, but then decided to wear rings.  I have to admit that I would find that peculiar, and wonder how much marriage ever meant to them in the first place.

mime

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Re: Commitment Ceremony odd update #50
« Reply #81 on: July 09, 2014, 01:54:53 PM »

And that makes me think that the cancellation might be coloring the OP's feeling about the whole thing.  Sort of as if the couple had originally been treating the commitment ceremony as something serious and meaningful, a real transition to a different stage of life and status, even if not legally, and the OP, as their friend, was taking it seriously, too. 

But then they decide they aren't going to have the commitment ceremony -- not because they are breaking up or have decided they aren't ready for a permanent commitment: they apparently consider themselves just as committed without the ceremony, evidenced by their decision to wear those rings.  So now how meaningful ever was the commitment ceremony to them -- even though they expected people, including the OP, to take it? 

That's what would make me feel a little jerked around if I were in the OP's place, or perhaps not jerked around, but less likely to take their professions of what is meaningful  quite as seriously, as they seem inclined to change their mind about it at whim.  Including, in this case, rings.

I mean, suppose it were a regular wedding that a couple canceled, but then decided to wear rings.  I have to admit that I would find that peculiar, and wonder how much marriage ever meant to them in the first place.

That makes sense to me. It is like they said "we feel that this is really important -- will you celebrate with us?" then later said (by thier decisions) "welllll, it wasn't so important after all."

I'd be likely to just figure that these friends are not-so-traditional in their approach, and that they're trying to figure out how they 'fit in' among everyone else's rules and norms, and are having a bit of trouble doing so.   :-\

turnip

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Re: Commitment Ceremony odd update #50
« Reply #82 on: July 09, 2014, 02:09:44 PM »
So to sum up - it's rude for the friends to have a commitment ceremony but having suggested that they might want one it is now rude for them to change their minds?  This board has put these poor friends in a lose/lose situation! ;-)

Possibly they floated the idea of a commitment ceremony among their social group and got much of the same response that the idea got here - that it's improper an offensive to have an imitation wedding ceremony if you are not legally married.   Backing off of that idea they've decided to wear simple rings - and are still getting flack!

If I was their friend I'd tell them life is too short to please everyone, and do whatever they wish.

gellchom

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Re: Commitment Ceremony odd update #50
« Reply #83 on: July 09, 2014, 02:31:47 PM »
So to sum up - it's rude for the friends to have a commitment ceremony but having suggested that they might want one it is now rude for them to change their minds?  This board has put these poor friends in a lose/lose situation! ;-)

Possibly they floated the idea of a commitment ceremony among their social group and got much of the same response that the idea got here - that it's improper an offensive to have an imitation wedding ceremony if you are not legally married.   Backing off of that idea they've decided to wear simple rings - and are still getting flack!

If I was their friend I'd tell them life is too short to please everyone, and do whatever they wish.
Where are you getting that?  I don't think anybody said either having or cancelling the commitment ceremony was "rude."  I certainly didn't.  As far as I am concerned, it's "win-win."

Nor did I hear of anyone giving them flak about their rings.  Having a reaction or being confused isn't giving someone flak.

They can, and should, and will, do whatever they wish.  Their loved ones will support them even if they think it's strange.  People can have opinions, or think something looks a little funny, without condemning them as rude or giving them flak -- with nothing more than an indulgent, loving smile.

turnip

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Re: Commitment Ceremony odd update #50
« Reply #84 on: July 09, 2014, 02:36:06 PM »
So to sum up - it's rude for the friends to have a commitment ceremony but having suggested that they might want one it is now rude for them to change their minds?  This board has put these poor friends in a lose/lose situation! ;-)

Possibly they floated the idea of a commitment ceremony among their social group and got much of the same response that the idea got here - that it's improper an offensive to have an imitation wedding ceremony if you are not legally married.   Backing off of that idea they've decided to wear simple rings - and are still getting flack!

If I was their friend I'd tell them life is too short to please everyone, and do whatever they wish.
Where are you getting that?  I don't think anybody said either having or cancelling the commitment ceremony was "rude."  I certainly didn't.  As far as I am concerned, it's "win-win."

Nor did I hear of anyone giving them flak about their rings.  Having a reaction or being confused isn't giving someone flak.

They can, and should, and will, do whatever they wish.  Their loved ones will support them even if they think it's strange.  People can have opinions, or think something looks a little funny, without condemning them as rude or giving them flak -- with nothing more than an indulgent, loving smile.

OK - no one said it was rude.  But you, specifically, said that you'd feel jerked around and less likely to take them seriously.  I suppose I extrapolated "I'd feel jerked around" to "They were rude" but it didn't seem like a far leap to me.   It it's a 'win-win' then why are you still expressing so many negative feelings about the whole thing?

Quote
That's what would make me feel a little jerked around if I were in the OP's place, or perhaps not jerked around, but less likely to take their professions of what is meaningful  quite as seriously, as they seem inclined to change their mind about it at whim.  Including, in this case, rings.

lowspark

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Re: Commitment Ceremony odd update #50
« Reply #85 on: July 09, 2014, 02:36:33 PM »
So to sum up - it's rude for the friends to have a commitment ceremony but having suggested that they might want one it is now rude for them to change their minds?  This board has put these poor friends in a lose/lose situation! ;-)

Possibly they floated the idea of a commitment ceremony among their social group and got much of the same response that the idea got here - that it's improper an offensive to have an imitation wedding ceremony if you are not legally married.   Backing off of that idea they've decided to wear simple rings - and are still getting flack!

If I was their friend I'd tell them life is too short to please everyone, and do whatever they wish.

I certainly didn't say either one was rude. I hadn't even commented on this thread until my speculation on OP's feelings about the cancellation of the ceremony.

Just to emphasize, my comments were about the OP's feelings, not about whether or not it was rude to cancel.


gellchom

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Re: Commitment Ceremony odd update #50
« Reply #86 on: July 09, 2014, 02:55:45 PM »
So to sum up - it's rude for the friends to have a commitment ceremony but having suggested that they might want one it is now rude for them to change their minds?  This board has put these poor friends in a lose/lose situation! ;-)

Possibly they floated the idea of a commitment ceremony among their social group and got much of the same response that the idea got here - that it's improper an offensive to have an imitation wedding ceremony if you are not legally married.   Backing off of that idea they've decided to wear simple rings - and are still getting flack!

If I was their friend I'd tell them life is too short to please everyone, and do whatever they wish.
Where are you getting that?  I don't think anybody said either having or cancelling the commitment ceremony was "rude."  I certainly didn't.  As far as I am concerned, it's "win-win."

Nor did I hear of anyone giving them flak about their rings.  Having a reaction or being confused isn't giving someone flak.

They can, and should, and will, do whatever they wish.  Their loved ones will support them even if they think it's strange.  People can have opinions, or think something looks a little funny, without condemning them as rude or giving them flak -- with nothing more than an indulgent, loving smile.

OK - no one said it was rude.  But you, specifically, said that you'd feel jerked around and less likely to take them seriously.  I suppose I extrapolated "I'd feel jerked around" to "They were rude" but it didn't seem like a far leap to me.   It it's a 'win-win' then why are you still expressing so many negative feelings about the whole thing?

Quote
That's what would make me feel a little jerked around if I were in the OP's place, or perhaps not jerked around, but less likely to take their professions of what is meaningful  quite as seriously, as they seem inclined to change their mind about it at whim.  Including, in this case, rings.
   
Like Lowspark, I was writing only about the OP's feelings and reactions, not about the couple's behavior.  In other words, we are talking about how we would feel in the OP's position, not what we think the couple should do. 

In the OP's place, my reaction would be to find it confusing and perhaps kind of flighty or a little capricious.  That's not the same as "rude."