Author Topic: Parking Over-Reaction, More informed #38, Update #63  (Read 10545 times)

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MindsEye

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Re: Parking Over-Reaction
« Reply #30 on: February 20, 2014, 02:53:19 PM »

In the OP it says that the assigned spots are marked by numbers painted on the concrete bumpers in front of the spaces.  (I assume that the visitor's spaces have no such numbers or have the word "visitor" painted on their bumpers.)  If the OP's DH was able to find the number of the house that the spot belonged to by (I assume) kicking the snow off of the bumper, then the friend should have done something similar to make sure that he was not parking in an assigned spot. 

That was exactly my point.  The OP's DH knew to kick the snow off to look at the curb for the number, because he lived there.  Kevin, a visitor, did not.  I meant it was unfair to have the same expectations of residents and of visitors.

I'm thinking DH sees Kevin drive in, goes to car window says "Visitor parking is at the end of that section over there."  Watches Kevin drive to the right section.  Because this space is right next to the visitors' spaces (circumstance #1), Kevin seems to be going to the right place.  Because it's dark (circumstance #2) DH can't see precisely which space Kevin pulls into.  Because there's snow on the curb (circumstance #3), Kevin can't see the curb in that space is marked differently and because Kevin doesn't live there (circumstance #4), he'd have no way to know the visitors' spots end right there, nor that he should be kicking snow off and checking the curb. Possibly the DH should have been poor diligent in pointing that out; I'm sure he will be in the future. But had the neighbor's spot not been adjacent to the visitors's spot, there wouldn't have been any confusion.  Had it been noon, DH would likely have noticed that Kevin was driving into an illegal spot and stopped him.  Had it not been snowy, Kevin would have seen the difference in curb markings.  But these things piled up, and Kevin made a mistake.  It just... happens sometimes.  People have a way of being human.


I am not sure what you are saying... Are you arguing that Kevin shouldn't have had to check that he was correctly parked and shouldn't have been penalized for taking someone else's spot?  That because Kevin was a visitor he should be excused because he didn't know better?

Yeah, people are human and "it happens", but... so what?  Mistakes aren't consequence-free.

Like I said, if I had been the neighbor and Kevin parked in my spot, I would just have had his car towed.

lowspark

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Re: Parking Over-Reaction
« Reply #31 on: February 20, 2014, 02:55:34 PM »
I do wonder what the neighbour is supposed to do, if towing the car is an over-reaction?  Should he take someone else's spot and just add to the problem, drive around and find a road spot and walk back to his building even if that is blocks away?

I might be more annoyed at this issue than others because when I did live in a building a neighbour's friend would take my spot and there would be no where to put my car as visitor parking was typically full and there were no side streets to park on.  In my case, it was daytime so I would kind of put my car right near the manager's office and go in and complain.  The tenant would then be phoned and they moved the car; however I knew who was doing it.  One time they did say "well it was only an hour we used your spot, you can home too early".  If my situation had occurred late at night I would have the car towed immediately, I wouldn't even wait 5 minutes.

I can see the double parking as an okay option if no one else is inconvenienced.  So if the neighbour double parked and blocked his spot and that of his wife, and other traffic could still get by I don't see the problem really.  Yeah, it wouldn't be nice to have to go home by cab and pick up your car the next day but imagine what it is like to come home after work/outing and not be able to park in your own spot.  I have no sympathy for the friend at all.

Regarding the bolded, they're going to have to do that anyway. Unless they call from the car and stay in the car and wait for the tow truck to show up.

I'm not coming in on either side. I, personally, would probably not call a tow truck, only because I would really hate to have my own car towed for what I can see was most likely an unintentional mistake. But I can't blame someone for doing it as I can also sympathize with the person whose parking spot is constantly being taken by people who don't belong.

Of course, we're not able to advise the spot's owner here, but in his place, I'd do something to make sure the spot was more clearly marked and I'd feel a lot less conscience-stricken about calling the tow truck if it were indeed painfully obvious not to park in that space.

Virg

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Re: Parking Over-Reaction
« Reply #32 on: February 20, 2014, 05:11:04 PM »
fountainof wrote:

"I do wonder what the neighbour is supposed to do, if towing the car is an over-reaction?"

I don't think towing the car would be an overreaction, but parking him in, then not accepting the first apology and refusing to move his car is.  The point is that, after he decided not to have the offending vehicle towed, all the other stuff he did became pointless chest-thumping because the rational decision is to act within his rights (have it towed) or do nothing abnormal.

"I can see the double parking as an okay option if no one else is inconvenienced.  So if the neighbour double parked and blocked his spot and that of his wife, and other traffic could still get by I don't see the problem really."

I can't get on board with this.  The neighbor had a reasonable option available, which is to have the car towed.  Blocking in the car is not reasonable because of this, and on top of that it's petty.  He's not rude to be angry that his space is taken, nor to take reasonable action to fix it himself, but he was rude to react the way he did when he had other options.

Virg

shhh its me

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Re: Parking Over-Reaction
« Reply #33 on: February 20, 2014, 05:24:13 PM »
fountainof wrote:

"I do wonder what the neighbour is supposed to do, if towing the car is an over-reaction?"

I don't think towing the car would be an overreaction, but parking him in, then not accepting the first apology and refusing to move his car is.  The point is that, after he decided not to have the offending vehicle towed, all the other stuff he did became pointless chest-thumping because the rational decision is to act within his rights (have it towed) or do nothing abnormal.

"I can see the double parking as an okay option if no one else is inconvenienced.  So if the neighbour double parked and blocked his spot and that of his wife, and other traffic could still get by I don't see the problem really."

I can't get on board with this.  The neighbor had a reasonable option available, which is to have the car towed.  Blocking in the car is not reasonable because of this, and on top of that it's petty.  He's not rude to be angry that his space is taken, nor to take reasonable action to fix it himself, but he was rude to react the way he did when he had other options.

Virg

I think this poster meant , it ok to block your own household's second car in.

I would say its "understandable" to block them in if you left they a contact number and were willing to move the car even at 3 am.  I would see it as not being as harsh as I'm legally able to be.  IF you're blocked in , you're inconvenienced for 10-15 minutes if I call a tow truck you're out the fees and a car until the impound lot is open to return it.

I don't think it would be wrong to call a tow truck though. I also concede my compromise would be "wrong"

dirtyweasel

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Re: Parking Over-Reaction
« Reply #34 on: February 20, 2014, 06:40:56 PM »


The thing is, illegal parkers think, "it's just once, for a little while," and then they get upset when they are bawled out or towed because "they" only did it "once."  Well, you and the other dozen or more people that month who think that it's okay to park on private property, in marked spaces, handicapped spaces, and so on. 


POD to this.  I have people park in my spot all the time and I've had two people towed out of my spot in the two years that I've lived in my apartment complex.  Of course, it's very easy to tell the difference between resident and non-resident parking because resident parking is covered with large numbers on the top and non-resident parking is uncovered.  There is also a very large sign that leads into our parking lot that spells this out.  Despite all this I still get people that get mad and/or befuddled that I would "dare" call a tow company to have their car towed since they didn't think I was home or they didn't know.  The problem is...this happens multiple times a month and parking is almost non-existent so if I can't park in my spot I'll probably have to park a few blocks away.

I've also been on the other side of the fence...I accidentally parked in someone's spot a few years ago and they left me a polite note letting me know that this was resident parking.  Never did that again and I appreciated that they didn't tow my car.  One other time I accidentally parked in my neighbor's parking spot and she had my car towed.  Definitely never did that again and I didn't begrudge her for doing it seeing as we have a huge problem with people parking in our spots.   



Salvage3

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Re: Parking Over-Reaction
« Reply #35 on: February 20, 2014, 07:03:24 PM »
Sorry, but I am more sympathetic to the OP's neighbor.  We have had a few other stories on here over the years about residents parking in other residents' parking spaces, and the reaction --in my estimation --was quite different than I am seeing here.

Also, I had several years of experience in being the person who had to authorize (required in our state) the towing of un-allowed cars from a parking lot.  This lot had signs just about anywhere I could find a space to post them, and the photos of the signs allowed us to win all appeals (also allowed) of the towed individuals.

We don't know the OP's neighbor, and we don't know if he has had recurring problems.  He may have reached his limit on being polite.

I am a little curious as to the size of these spaces, in that he apparently could park behind the offending vehicle and yet other cars could get around him.

Sadly, I think it's inherent on the OP to be a little more proactive in making sure visitors are where they are allowed; and I realize that can be an inconvenience when you are preparing for the visitors and events.

LifeOnPluto

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Re: Parking Over-Reaction
« Reply #36 on: February 20, 2014, 09:22:24 PM »
I do wonder what the neighbour is supposed to do, if towing the car or double parking is an over-reaction?  Should he take someone else's spot and just add to the problem, drive around and find a road spot and walk back to his building even if that is blocks away?  What if there are no spots should he just wait in his car all night?

I might be more annoyed at this issue than others because when I did live in a building a neighbour's friend would take my spot and there would be no where to put my car as visitor parking was typically full and there were no side streets to park on.  In my case, it was daytime so I would kind of put my car right near the manager's office and go in and complain.  The tenant would then be phoned and they moved the car; however I knew who was doing it.  One time they did say "well it was only an hour we used your spot, you can home too early".  If my situation had occurred late at night I would have the car towed immediately, I wouldn't even wait 5 minutes.

I can see the double parking as an okay option if no one else is inconvenienced.  So if the neighbour double parked and blocked his spot and that of his wife, and other traffic could still get by I don't see the problem really.  Yeah, it wouldn't be nice to have to go home by cab and pick up your car the next day but imagine what it is like to come home after work/outing and not be able to park in your own spot.  I have no sympathy for the friend at all..

Quote
What exactly would get you off the hook, if you'd made an honest mistake?
Actually hearing the apology from the person who made the error, not the OP's DH.  I also would want some understanding of how significant an error it was as coming home and not having a parking space is a huge issue.  The OP and her DH seem to think the double parking is a big issue but the mistake that inconveniences someone is no big deal.

If there are guest spots available, the owner of the spot should park there. Yes, technically the owner would be within their rights just to get the offending car towed, but if there are heaps of other spots available, this seems a bit mean-spirited to me.

If there are no other spots available (and street parking is non-existent, etc) I personally think it's fine for the owner to call a tow truck, or block them in. And for the latter option, I think the owner is fine *not* moving their car until a reasonable hour (ie I don't think they should have to get out of bed at 3am to move their car to "free" the offending vehicle).

The rudeness by the OP's neighbour lies in the fact that he deliberately kept blocking the friend's car the following morning, even when there were spots available. Plus shouting and swearing at the OP's DH when he tried to apologise.

The second bolded point is interesting however. If the neighbour genuinely feels he is owed a personal apology by Kevin, does Kevin have an obligation to apologise? Ie, would Kevin be rude if he refused?

sweetonsno

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Re: Parking Over-Reaction
« Reply #37 on: February 20, 2014, 09:49:10 PM »

If there are guest spots available, the owner of the spot should park there. Yes, technically the owner would be within their rights just to get the offending car towed, but if there are heaps of other spots available, this seems a bit mean-spirited to me.

If there are no other spots available (and street parking is non-existent, etc) I personally think it's fine for the owner to call a tow truck, or block them in. And for the latter option, I think the owner is fine *not* moving their car until a reasonable hour (ie I don't think they should have to get out of bed at 3am to move their car to "free" the offending vehicle).

The rudeness by the OP's neighbour lies in the fact that he deliberately kept blocking the friend's car the following morning, even when there were spots available. Plus shouting and swearing at the OP's DH when he tried to apologise.

The second bolded point is interesting however. If the neighbour genuinely feels he is owed a personal apology by Kevin, does Kevin have an obligation to apologise? Ie, would Kevin be rude if he refused?

I'm not sure I agree that the owner of the spot should park in the guest parking. In my condo complex (come to think of it, in the last couple of apartment complexes I lived in, too), residents can get towed for using visitor parking. That may or may not be the case here, but I don't think the spot owner should be obligated to risk getting towed himself.

Regarding your concluding question, I do think it is rude to refuse to apologize for wronging someone, even if it was inadvertent. That said, the neighbor would be out of line to require groveling.

LadyR

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Re: Parking Over-Reaction
« Reply #38 on: February 20, 2014, 10:57:46 PM »
OP here. I'm surprised so many people are siding with the neighbour.

To answer some questions:
A) the parking is set up odd. The row Kevin is set up like this

1 | 2 | V | V | V | V | V | V |
The numbers are written on the curbs but there is a big sign that says <--visitors-->, indicating that row is visitor parking. In the summer it is much easier to see the curb signs, but in the winter only the big visitor sign is easy to see.
B) It was dark when Kevin arrived and snowy. There was no way he could see that there were #s on the curb. He assumed the whole row was visitors. DH went and uncovered the curb when he saw that Kevin was blocked in.
C) Another friend went to his car an hour before Kevin left and the car was not there. When Kevin left there were several empty visitors spots. There are no penalties for residents parking in visitors spots.
D) The neighbour parked his car so only Kevin was blocked in. The next morning his wife left and there other spot was open, but he left his car where it was.
E) I checked our condo rules and we are not supposed to lease our spots. We are also not supposed to tow, but instead report offending cars to management along with license plate #s for them to ahmdle it (I assume if the same car offends mulitple times, management will have it towed).

I had no sympathy for the guy because of his extreme over-reaction and how aggressive he was with DH. I was also sympathetic with Kevin, because he had never been to our place before and was supposed to ne leaving early to go home, 10 hours away. Because of what I consider an honest mistake, his journey was delayed 7 hours.

In the future we will check more carefully. We looked out, saw Kevin's car and misjudged with the snow and the dark, assuming it was a Visitor spot. I now know to actually go outside and make sure.



sweetonsno

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Re: Parking Over-Reaction
« Reply #39 on: February 21, 2014, 12:04:11 AM »
In the future we will check more carefully. We looked out, saw Kevin's car and misjudged with the snow and the dark, assuming it was a Visitor spot. I now know to actually go outside and make sure.

I think this is your best bet. As hosts, I think it's your responsibility to make sure that your guests are obeying the rules, whether that means observing "quiet hours" or parking in the designated areas.

I don't think anybody is suggesting that the neighbor was right to yell and curse, only that his annoyance at having his spot taken was legitimate.

TootsNYC

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Re: Parking Over-Reaction
« Reply #40 on: February 21, 2014, 12:10:41 AM »

Frankly, given that sounds to me like it was actually pretty easy for your DH to determine what townhouse the spot your friend parked in belonged to I am not sure that "there was NO clear way of telling that that was someon's assigned spot".  I think that your friend was responsible for making 100% sure that he was parking in a visitor's space, especially since you made a point of explaining to him where the visitor's spots were and how he had to be sure to park in one.  That is was dark and snowy really isn't much of an excuse for not double-checking.

Actually, if I lived in a townhouse/apartment setup like this, I would consider it *my* responsibility to walk outside and vet my guests' parking spaces.

My responsibility toward them, AND my responsibility toward my neighbors.

I see that the OP felt a similar responsibility and was thrown by the snow, etc., since the usual habit was to check visually. And she's smart enough to check.

kudeebee

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Re: Parking Over-Reaction, More informed #38
« Reply #41 on: February 21, 2014, 01:37:12 AM »
Sounds like the complex needs to put up signs that mark the designated spots and not just signs for visitor spots.  (didn't read every  post so this may have already been said)

Sounds like a huge overreaction on neighbor's part, given the weather and snow.

SoCalVal

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Re: Parking Over-Reaction
« Reply #42 on: February 21, 2014, 01:56:10 AM »
In the future we will check more carefully. We looked out, saw Kevin's car and misjudged with the snow and the dark, assuming it was a Visitor spot. I now know to actually go outside and make sure.

I think this is your best bet. As hosts, I think it's your responsibility to make sure that your guests are obeying the rules, whether that means observing "quiet hours" or parking in the designated areas.

I don't think anybody is suggesting that the neighbor was right to yell and curse, only that his annoyance at having his spot taken was legitimate.

This is my feeling.  I don't think the neighbor has the right to be retaliatory about it (although I have to admit I did the same thing -- blocking someone in -- once one evening when I was very ill from the flu and rushing to get on a plane the next morning for a business trip only to find a neighbor's guest taking an obvious tenant spot parking space since all-covered parking was tenant-parking only -- I had to leave a few hours later so I had to move my car but, given my car was mysteriously trashed a week or so later, I'm pretty sure the culprit saw his/her car blocked in; not saying I was in the right, but I remember being very ill, having no choice about traveling, it was extremely cold outside and I just wasn't going to search for parking at that late hour, especially when I had to leave early in the morning for the airport).

Anyway, knowing the parking issues at OP's community, my feeling is the residents need to be hyper-vigilant about where their guests park to ensure that it doesn't inconvenience other residents by resident parking accidentally being used.  I would've been pretty upset, just like the guy (reporting does nothing, though, as I've done that before and before my once blocking-someone-in incident).  I have to admit, though, that my one-time blocking someone in, I hope, taught both the other tenants and that guest not to park in tenant parking going forward.



Coley

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Re: Parking Over-Reaction, More informed #38
« Reply #43 on: February 21, 2014, 07:41:55 AM »
I understand the neighbor's frustration with the situation, but I don't agree with his behavior. I think it was inappropriate for him to yell and curse at your DH. I also don't think it was appropriate for him to block Kevin's car.

I think it's a red herring whether spots can be leased. Regardless, a guest parked in a non-visitor spot when he should not have parked there, which inconvenienced a resident of the complex.

Kevin made an honest mistake. Your DH apologized to the neighbor. You've said you will check more thoroughly in the future to make sure guests park appropriately. That's all you can do. I don't think you should concern yourself with whether the neighbor accepts the apology or behaves rudely in response to the apology. That's up to him. Don't internalize his behavior.

tinkytinky

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Re: Parking Over-Reaction, More informed #38
« Reply #44 on: February 21, 2014, 10:06:56 AM »
OP, you said that there is one parking spot available for each townhome/apartment and he is leasing the second spot from neighbor. What are the normal parking arrangements for people who own two vehicles? one in the assigned spot and street parking/visitor parking for the other? (just curious). It seems he is acting this way because he knows that he can't go to management to have the car moved because that isn't his assigned spot. The most he could do is go to the neighbor to have her complain to management. But he doesn't want her doing that, because she doesn't have a car. He's stuck. If he complains, he could lose his parking spot. I think he over reacted and could have handled this better. He could have wrote a note with his phone number/house number and they parked in a private spot and please let him know so he could park in his spot (unless after a certain time of night). He could have parked in the visitor parking himself, even if he was upset about having to do it. He could have cleared the spot beforehand so it was obvious that it was reserved parking.

I understand being upset about it, but being so blatantly rude when he is not following the rules himself is not ok.


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