Author Topic: Spinoff of 'but it's not like it's work'  (Read 3809 times)

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Garden Goblin

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Spinoff of 'but it's not like it's work'
« on: February 20, 2014, 11:20:48 PM »
I do tech stuff.  Computers, networks, websites, that kind of thing.

I also play den leader / assistant cubmaster for my kid's troop.  We were discussing potential activities.

I have an acquaintance that does pottery, and occasionally gives pottery lessons.  As it happens, she's also taken a couple of my computer classes and was recently talking to me about how she'd like to do some upgrades (video card, RAM, and getting rid of 8 and going back to 7) and was thinking of getting a website.  She started to ask me about my rates but we got interrupted.

I'd like to make her an offer - she comes in and teaches the boys some basic pottery skills (we would pay for clay and other materials) and fires their creations (assuming they create anything that can be fired).  In return, I do the computer upgrades.  If the teaching the pottery skills includes showing them some wheel work, I also build her website.  There are 6 boys, and there is constant parental supervision at their level.

What's the best way to go about broaching this subject?  Does it sound like a fair deal?

Minmom3

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Re: Spinoff of 'but it's not like it's work'
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2014, 11:41:44 PM »
I think it's great!  That doesn't mean she'll take you up on it, but you're offering a barter that she is welcome to accept, negotiate, or deny.  You are NOT assuming that she'll do it.  Big, big difference.  I think you're good!
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bopper

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Re: Spinoff of 'but it's not like it's work'
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2014, 11:43:52 PM »
"Acquaintance, you were mentioning having me help you with some computer issues the other day. We never really got to finish that conversation.  What do you think about possibly bartering for my help with your computer? I could help you with the upgrades and a basic website and you could teach my cub scouts about basic pottery and help them make an item and fire it.  We would pay for materials, but you would provide your time, procuring the materials and firing of the items.  You don't have to answer now..think about it and let me know if that would work for you."


I think what you are asking seems very reasonable.  She would probably be spending less or equal time than you.

Outdoor Girl

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Re: Spinoff of 'but it's not like it's work'
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2014, 09:49:02 AM »
Bartering is a perfectly legitimate way to go about getting something accomplished.

I love to bake; if someone wanted me to bake something for them but didn't want to pay cash, I'd be perfectly happy if they did some task for me that I don't like to, or can't, do.  Like clean my house, for example.

I like bopper's wording.
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Lynn2000

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Re: Spinoff of 'but it's not like it's work'
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2014, 11:05:52 AM »
I think it's a perfectly legitimate thing to ask about. I would try to have some numbers and limits available for my part, and listen when she gives numbers and limits for her part, and then try to work out a deal we both think is fair. If both parties agree I don't see how it would be wrong.

Since you're tech savvy I presume you also know about what stuff could go wrong and thus cost more/take longer on your end. Like, you build her a website, but what if she wants you to maintain it, update it each week, etc.? Whereas it seems to me that the pottery stuff is really a one-time thing. So maybe keep that in mind, too, and just be very clear on what you're both offering and for how long.
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SamiHami

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Re: Spinoff of 'but it's not like it's work'
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2014, 11:11:37 AM »
I had a good friend that had very, very little money but he was often able to obtain cool things/services through barter. It's a great way for both parties to get something they want without the fuss and bother of money changing hands. It's a great idea and I hope you and she are able to come to an agreement.

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Onyx_TKD

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Re: Spinoff of 'but it's not like it's work'
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2014, 04:22:20 PM »
I do tech stuff.  Computers, networks, websites, that kind of thing.

I also play den leader / assistant cubmaster for my kid's troop.  We were discussing potential activities.

I have an acquaintance that does pottery, and occasionally gives pottery lessons.  As it happens, she's also taken a couple of my computer classes and was recently talking to me about how she'd like to do some upgrades (video card, RAM, and getting rid of 8 and going back to 7) and was thinking of getting a website.  She started to ask me about my rates but we got interrupted.

I'd like to make her an offer - she comes in and teaches the boys some basic pottery skills (we would pay for clay and other materials) and fires their creations (assuming they create anything that can be fired).  In return, I do the computer upgrades.  If the teaching the pottery skills includes showing them some wheel work, I also build her website.  There are 6 boys, and there is constant parental supervision at their level.

What's the best way to go about broaching this subject?  Does it sound like a fair deal?

One thing you should consider is what you'll do if she isn't interested in bartering. If she is not willing to do the pottery lesson, are you still prepared to work on her computer upgrades and give her a quote?

Even if she is interested in the barter, I think you should be ready to discuss monetary value in the form of normal rates for your computer work and her pottery lessons. If you don't already know the cost of her pottery lessons, make sure you're mentally prepared for them being substantially higher than you expected. As the other thread shows, the last thing you want to do is leave her thinking you undervalue her work. If you suggest your barter idea and find out that her lessons cost 4 times what you thought, have a script prepared to either rework the barter offer or gracefully drop the pottery part and just give her a quote so you aren't fumbling for words in the moment.

jmarvellous

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Re: Spinoff of 'but it's not like it's work'
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2014, 04:58:13 PM »
I'm a fan of bartering. I do agree with others that the relative value of your/her time commitment/monetary loss bears thinking about. If you'd normally charge $1,000 (or $50?) or take 40 hours (2?) to build a site, is a pottery class for other people's kids really worth it to you? (Not saying I know the answer, but it's a good idea to fill in your own blanks.)

Make sure both sides' expectations are spelled out up front, and that you know the cost of clay and such so you can be sure your troop is OK with paying it.

Garden Goblin

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Re: Spinoff of 'but it's not like it's work'
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2014, 11:26:07 AM »
One thing you should consider is what you'll do if she isn't interested in bartering. If she is not willing to do the pottery lesson, are you still prepared to work on her computer upgrades and give her a quote?

Yep, at my normal rates.

Quote
If you don't already know the cost of her pottery lessons, make sure you're mentally prepared for them being substantially higher than you expected. As the other thread shows, the last thing you want to do is leave her thinking you undervalue her work. If you suggest your barter idea and find out that her lessons cost 4 times what you thought, have a script prepared to either rework the barter offer or gracefully drop the pottery part and just give her a quote so you aren't fumbling for words in the moment.

I'm not wholly unfamiliar with doing pottery.  I've taken a few lessons and am familiar with various techniques, I'm just not very good at that particular skill.  If she quotes me 4 times what I think they should cost, I'll do my best not to laugh.  I could, if it came down to it, show the kids how to do pinch pots myself, but she could show them a greater range of ideas than I could and be better about correcting techniques.

I'm a fan of bartering. I do agree with others that the relative value of your/her time commitment/monetary loss bears thinking about. If you'd normally charge $1,000 (or $50?) or take 40 hours (2?) to build a site, is a pottery class for other people's kids really worth it to you? (Not saying I know the answer, but it's a good idea to fill in your own blanks.)

I have different levels of website that I'm willing to do.  The level I'm planning on offering is about 8-10 hours worth of work and expects her to already have some artwork/pictures she wants to use.   Basically, a day of my time for a day of hers, since teaching the wheel is a lot more involved then just teaching kids how to make pinch pots.

TootsNYC

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Re: Spinoff of 'but it's not like it's work'
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2014, 02:35:22 PM »
If she's at all amenable, you might each of you write out what you'd charge anyone else for the service in question, and then simply figure out where they line up.

Point out that you'll both feel more comfortable if neither of you feels like they're doing someone a favor but rather you're entitled to the full service, and also feel obligated to provide the full service.

GreenEyedHawk

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Re: Spinoff of 'but it's not like it's work'
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2014, 02:58:57 PM »
It sounds like a pretty fair exchange to me, time-wise.  If it were me, I'd be willing to at least entertain the idea.
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Garden Goblin

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Re: Spinoff of 'but it's not like it's work'
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2014, 11:36:41 AM »
Talked with her last night.  I barely had raised the idea of the class when I got a flat no, she doesn't work with children.  Actually, the wording she used involved 'hyper little brats' and trailed off into a rant that children have no appreciation for art and its sad how kids these days don't want to learn anything that doesn't revolve around video games and it makes her angry that kids today know nothing about old fashioned craftsmanship.   

Considering one of the 'hyper little brats' is mine, I think my tech support rates may have just gone up a tad.  Also, I may have broken my irony meter.

AmethystAnne

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Re: Spinoff of 'but it's not like it's work'
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2014, 12:36:49 PM »
She shot herself in the foot.

I guess I don't qualify to take one of her classes. I'm almost 60, but don't feel like a grown up yet. I like video games and romp with the grandkids at the drop of a hat.

kherbert05

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Re: Spinoff of 'but it's not like it's work'
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2014, 01:19:16 PM »
Talked with her last night.  I barely had raised the idea of the class when I got a flat no, she doesn't work with children.  Actually, the wording she used involved 'hyper little brats' and trailed off into a rant that children have no appreciation for art and its sad how kids these days don't want to learn anything that doesn't revolve around video games and it makes her angry that kids today know nothing about old fashioned craftsmanship.   

Considering one of the 'hyper little brats' is mine, I think my tech support rates may have just gone up a tad.  Also, I may have broken my irony meter.
YIKES - I used to work at the a children's museum associated with a fine arts museum that had ceramics as its main perminate collection.

Kids that want to be there love ceramics. I took a class that had kids mid elementary school up to adults. It was the adults we had to tell to be quiet, so we could hear the instructor not the kids. The kids were even respectful and polite when they had to wait with me in the main studio while the adults watched on particular color of glaze be mixed. The instructor wasn't comfortable having them there because one of the ingredients was potentially toxic. (He was using a hood and other safety equipment just the idea of young kids small bodies and potential poison) He told me in I wasn't allowed in either (We were friends and he was worried because he knew about bad reactions to other things)

When we did pit firings the kids were right there. We actually had 2 pits going. One to fire the ceramics and one to roast hot dogs and make s'mores. Kids could do anything the adults could do as long as their parent/guardian said ok.
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bopper

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Re: Spinoff of 'but it's not like it's work'
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2014, 04:52:27 PM »
She may be right in the majority of the kids might not like pottery that much, but there might be that one kid who does. Also, if they are never exposed to new things, how can they know if they don't like it?

One time with girl scouts we had an outing to a ski slope. All the girls were signed up for some lessons or could already ski.  After the lessons, some of the kids just wanted to play in the snow or just sit or whatever. But one girl really liked it so I took her on the bunny slope and we worked on turns and what not.  If someone hadn't taken the time to expose them to a new activity, she never would have known she liked it!

That said, if she knows she doesn't like working with kids then it is probably best she doesn't!