News: There is a new Ehell Kindness Project!  Check it out in the "Extending the Hand of Kindness" folder or here: http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=139832.msg3372084#msg3372084

• November 29, 2015, 03:38:52 PM

### Author Topic: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)  (Read 16283 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

#### TurtleDove

• Member
• Posts: 6855
##### Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
« Reply #90 on: March 20, 2014, 04:31:05 PM »
I really don't care what anyone wants to give anyone else, so long as they do not label a recipient who is not thrilled with an un-asked for gift as entitled SS.  As I have always said, if a giver is perfectly happy that the recipient gave the gift away and will never use it, great!

#### TootsNYC

• Member
• Posts: 34271
##### Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
« Reply #91 on: March 20, 2014, 04:39:12 PM »
well, I think they can by mildly, personally disappointed.

But to be upset, or to think less of the recipient, I agree that's not fair or cool or whatever.

#### purple

• Member
• Posts: 687
##### Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
« Reply #92 on: March 20, 2014, 09:29:38 PM »
I think there is sometimes a conflict over gift expectations, as camlan says, and it can be hard to see when you (general) have tipped over the line--you're so excited about getting specific things, or being able to take a trip you couldn't afford on your own, or something like that, and then someone goes and gives you something that does not fit with this plan. We're only human, it can be hard to take a step back and realize, "No, I should be grateful for this gift, no matter what it is." (I do think there are mean-spirited, dismissive gifts that one does not need to be grateful for, but I don't think that's the case here.)

For example, my friend Amy put things on her wedding registry and baby shower registry, and she wanted those things, not something similar, not a cheaper version, not a different color. She's pragmatic and decisive, she researched everything before deciding on it, and she truly didn't understand why someone would get her something different. She wanted sage green towels in brand X, someone gave her chocolate brown towels in brand Y. Why? Obviously they didn't realize that the color, brand, and store were selected very carefully, and that she will immediately take the brown towels back to the store without even unfolding them. I think I accompanied her on at least 3 trips to return things to stores, before the wedding even took place. And returning something to a store is not always the fastest or most pleasant experience, and you start thinking more about the time and inconvenience and gas, and "Why couldn't they have just given me something from my list?! Was that really so hard?!"

But of course, once you get too far down that path, I think you're in danger of becoming rude. I suppose if you always keep it to yourself, or at least don't let the giver know, you're functionally still good. But if it bleeds out into how you think about the person--"I really wanted X, why couldn't they just do that?"--that can be bad.

The bolded is something I cannot stand.
You throw the party / wedding that _you_ (general) can afford and you (general) take the honeymoon that _you_ (general) can afford.

I don't want to see a cash bar and a honeymoon registry because you (general) have decided that you (general) want to have a party or go on a holiday that you need me to subsidise.

I'm quite generous when it comes to wedding gifts.  I don't mind parting with a bit of cash for a HC, but once they start telling me to give them this or that, it's the quickest way to make me tighten my purse strings.

I've never understood this line of reasoning. If a couple registers for china and linens and  a bunch of appliances they couldn't otherwise afford on their own, that's okay? But if they prefer the experience of traveling together to a toaster, thats not ok?

No, that's not ok either, from my personal viewpoint.

I don't like gift registries of any kind.  I cannot get on board with them.  I think they are rude.

When I'm faced with one I tend to buy something from there but I do think the person a bit rude.

I know there are pro-registry people and anti-registry people out there and I can happily agree to disagree about the whole issue.  I just happen to be one of the people in the anti-registry camp.

No hard feelings to anybody in the other camp

ETA: I removed a bit, because it's not probably true of my feelings.  Also to add that my standard wedding gift these days (for those who do not have registries) is cash and so far I've had no complaints  .
« Last Edit: March 20, 2014, 09:42:47 PM by purple »

#### gellchom

• Member
• Posts: 3000
##### Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
« Reply #93 on: March 20, 2014, 11:32:04 PM »
Purple, what about registries for things that come in patterns, like china, flatware, crystal, and linens?  How else could anyone buy those things?

#### kareng57

• Member
• Posts: 12370
##### Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
« Reply #94 on: March 20, 2014, 11:40:20 PM »
But where's the experience of giving/receiving a gift if you tell someone *exactly* what you want and they buy it for you? You may as well just ask for the money and/or say "I want £100 to buy X item", which, thinking about it, I think is why I find it distasteful.

For me, gifts of tangible items that I have no use for are more of a burden than a blessing.  I don't need anything, though I might want certain specific things.  Most/all of my friends and family who are getting married and having babies (or whatever other gift giving event) are the same way.  We don't need anything.  We aren't expecting people to make it possible to take a honeymoon or furnish our homes.  We are financially stable.  We are not gimme pigs.  This is why I am a fan of experience gifts. This would be memorable for me.  This would make me think fondly of someone every time I thought about the experience.  A platter or extra toaster or towels I don't like that I immediately put in storage I am not likely to think of ever again.

But that's my risk to run.

You aren't entitled to receive something you will use. You're the giver--you don't actually get any role in picking out the present. Your role is completely, completely passive.

Honestly, if I buy you something from your registry, that you picked out, and you receive it along with lots of other things you picked out, will you remember who gave it to you?

And if you give it away bcs you won't use it, well, that's completely your role.

I'm confused.  Don't people keep a keepsake-list of wedding gifts anymore?

For me it was 34 years ago and we got many nice gifts, both from the registry and not.  We very much appreciated all of them.  And even though the china gravy boat (as an example) was on the registry, I still knew who gave it.

I see registries as a suggestion - nothing more.

#### Miss Understood

• Member
• Posts: 1479
##### Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
« Reply #95 on: March 20, 2014, 11:40:33 PM »

If I like what you gave me that you picked out, no burden.  If I don't, then yes, I would feel bad because you would have wasted your time, money and energy on something I wouldn't use and instead have to find a way to store or dispose of.  If you would have asked me what I wanted, and gotten me that, we would both have won, in my opinion.

I think you are reaching beyond yourself here. It's not your responsibility (and not, actually, your right) to worry about whether the gift giver has wasted their money.

That was their prerogative. They are grownups, and if it was important to them to NOT waste their money, they would have gone to your registry and purchased something you suggested.

If they didn't, it's because they didn't -want- to. And for you to take on too big a burden of feeling bad, or for you to think they've done the wrong thing, is for -you- to think you know better than them what their values are.

What your guests choose to give you is not actually your responsibility. Not before, and not after.
You just need to appreciate the effort they went to in giving you the gift.

Believe me, I get it about the "burden" part--I too have often had too-large guilt pangs about gifts that turned out to not be successful.

So I've come to this point of view from a place very similar to what you are describing.

I think I agree with both Toots and TurtleDove to some extent.  We received a large framed reproduction of a famous painting that neither DH or I care for as a wedding gift (which was actually brought to the wedding itself, so I thought it was part of the decor of the reception venue until I noticed it in our hotel suite the next morning (ceremony, reception, and accommodations were all in the same hotel)).  I was all "why is that picture in our suite now?"

We did of course thank the gifters, but we did not end up keeping it.  Since it wasn't something that could be exchanged or returned, we actually gave it away, which made me feel bad as wedding gifts should be cherished.  We also received other gifts that were not what we would have chosen but which we love, not only for themselves but for the thought that went into picking them.  The picture, though?  It was huge and not in keeping with our taste at all (meaning decorating taste, it wasn't crude or anything).

The couple who gave it to us are divorced now and we are only likely to see the former husband of the couple, who I am sure did not pick it out, but if he did come over and ask I would feel really embarrassed as there is no way to say "we gave away your expensive gift that you picked out for us" without causing hurt feelings.  I guess the takeaway from this post is that if you go off-registry, at least don't pick art.

#### perpetua

• Member
• Posts: 2212
##### Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
« Reply #96 on: March 21, 2014, 02:54:37 AM »
I hope all the people you care about live really close to you, then. My favorite-estest cousin in the entire world lives in Mpls; I'm in NYC. How would I know what he likes?

It's never going to come up for me. I don't have family, close or extended,  no brothers/sisters, so no nieces and nephews etc of marriageable age. My father was also an only child, so I have no cousins on that side. I have some cousins on my mother's side, who I have never met because they mostly live overseas. Anyone whose wedding I would be going to, therefore, would likely be a close friend who lives locally. I would know them. Because I wouldn't be forking out money to attend the wedding of (or send a gift to) these relatives that I barely know.

Purple, what about registries for things that come in patterns, like china, flatware, crystal, and linens?  How else could anyone buy those things?

I'm not Purple, but - why don't they just save up and buy them themselves instead of expecting everyone else to fund their decorative choices? Sure, these things are expensive, but that's all the more reason why you don't expect everyone else to buy them for you.

I understand that weddings are traditionally a gift giving event. However, what I personally find distasteful is "Yay, we're getting married - now someone else can buy us that expensive set of plates we want!"

#### purple

• Member
• Posts: 687
##### Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
« Reply #97 on: March 21, 2014, 04:45:02 AM »
Purple, what about registries for things that come in patterns, like china, flatware, crystal, and linens?  How else could anyone buy those things?

Hi gellchom,

I personally would only buy somebody a gift of an entire set of towels (so 2 bath sheets, 2 hand towels, 2 face washers and a floor mat) or a tableware set that comprised at least 6 settings if I were to buy somebody that as a gift.  I might ask somebody closer to the bride if I wasn't sure about colours or I'd just buy plain white.  (I know sometimes on registries you have the option of buying one or two place-settings and the idea is that somebody else might buy another one or two and so on, but I wouldn't do that.)

Otherwise, I'd buy something like a set of silver cutlery or a clear crystal vase or something like that.

I don't think I've ever been to a wedding of a person whose house I hadn't visited or who I didn't know pretty well, so generally I'm pretty well able to gauge if they'd like something or if it would fit with the rest of their home decor or not.

Like I say though, my standard wedding gift is cash.  I'll put it inside a nice silver or crystal box or something and wrap it up.

There's something that just rubs me the wrong way when people start telling me what they want as a gift.  I don't like it and I don't do it.

#### Harriet Jones

• Member
• Posts: 7678
• Yes, we know who you are.
##### Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
« Reply #98 on: March 21, 2014, 05:41:09 AM »
I'm confused.  Don't people keep a keepsake-list of wedding gifts anymore?

I didn't.  You're supposed to?

I'm sure I had a list for TY note purposes, but I may have kept it on the computer.

#### TurtleDove

• Member
• Posts: 6855
##### Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
« Reply #99 on: March 21, 2014, 08:26:02 AM »
I'm not Purple, but - why don't they just save up and buy them themselves instead of expecting everyone else to fund their decorative choices? Sure, these things are expensive, but that's all the more reason why you don't expect everyone else to buy them for you.

I understand that weddings are traditionally a gift giving event. However, what I personally find distasteful is "Yay, we're getting married - now someone else can buy us that expensive set of plates we want!"

I have never seen this as the HC "expecting" anyone to "fund" anything. It's more, "if you are going to spend money on a gift for us, you may as well spend money on item X, which we would use and enjoy, rather than item Z, which we would thank you for and then immediately give away or put in storage because it is not to our taste."   It is not about trying to take advantage of guests, IME.

#### gellchom

• Member
• Posts: 3000
##### Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
« Reply #100 on: March 21, 2014, 10:01:31 AM »
I'm confused.  Don't people keep a keepsake-list of wedding gifts anymore?

I didn't.  You're supposed to?

I'm sure I had a list for TY note purposes, but I may have kept it on the computer.
It isn't a "supposed to" thing, but I'm so glad I did for my own sake.  It's a treasure to me.  I also put the cards and gift enclosures in a scrapbook.
Don't erase that file from your computer.

I just bought a place setting of china a couple registered as a wedding gift last night.  It's one of my favorite things to give.  Or sometimes if they seem to be getting plenty of the five piece settings but the soup bowls are separate on the registry I buy them some soup bowls.  Soup is essential to a healthy marriage!

#### Lynn2000

• Member
• Posts: 7801
##### Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
« Reply #101 on: March 21, 2014, 10:31:10 AM »
I think in most circles, if you had a wedding of decent size, it would be weird and Twilight Zone-ish if absolutely no one gave you a present. Because generally, people do. So I think there's a difference between "expecting" people as a whole to do what they usually do under normal circumstances, and "expecting" as in "counting on down to every last detail."

But I think it can be a fine line, or maybe a slippery slope. I've never heard anyone suggest that it's rude to make arrangements for your wedding gifts to be transported from the venue to somewhere safe, because it's rude to assume that you're going to get any gifts. That's just being sensible and pragmatic.

And from there, one step at a time, you're reasoning that you won't have to pay for THIS because someone will buy it for you, and you won't have to pay for THAT, and "I estimate my extended family will give me $X total at the wedding, which we can put towards Y expense..." And that's a little dangerous, but to some people it can seem, again, just being pragmatic and planning ahead, and also enjoying the anticipation of getting gifts, which is not in itself bad I think. And then the slope slips a little more, and you're standing on the other side going, "Why did Uncle Bob give me a Precious Moments figure that I didn't want?! I was counting on at least$200 cash from him, that's what he always gives!! How are we going to get the cabinets redone now?!" Which is rude.

Not that everyone has to go through the whole process, of course, but I think it's very easy for some people, who are otherwise polite, to slip further and further without realizing how far they've gone.
~Lynn2000

#### camlan

• Member
• Posts: 9291
##### Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
« Reply #102 on: March 21, 2014, 10:47:09 AM »
I'm confused.  Don't people keep a keepsake-list of wedding gifts anymore?

I didn't.  You're supposed to?

I'm sure I had a list for TY note purposes, but I may have kept it on the computer.
It isn't a "supposed to" thing, but I'm so glad I did for my own sake.  It's a treasure to me.  I also put the cards and gift enclosures in a scrapbook.
Don't erase that file from your computer.

I just bought a place setting of china a couple registered as a wedding gift last night.  It's one of my favorite things to give.  Or sometimes if they seem to be getting plenty of the five piece settings but the soup bowls are separate on the registry I buy them some soup bowls.  Soup is essential to a healthy marriage!

Veering more off-topic here, but I found my mother's list of wedding presents many years after she died, while I was helping my father clear out the attic.

Some of the gifts were things we used every day--the little side table in the living room that Dad's best friend made for them. Many were used on special occasions--the silver serving dishes, the china, the silverware. It was really very touching to realize that things I knew my mother valued, but I didn't know why, were her wedding gifts from family and her close friends. And now I know why a particularly ratty-looking dresser scarf was kept and not thrown out--her sister had given it to her as an engagement gift.
Nothing is impossible, the word itself says, “I’m possible!” –Audrey Hepburn

#### jedikaiti

• Swiss Army Nerd
• Member
• Posts: 3356
• A pie in the hand is worth two in the mail.
##### Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
« Reply #103 on: March 21, 2014, 01:03:20 PM »
But where's the experience of giving/receiving a gift if you tell someone *exactly* what you want and they buy it for you? You may as well just ask for the money and/or say "I want £100 to buy X item", which, thinking about it, I think is why I find it distasteful.

For me, gifts of tangible items that I have no use for are more of a burden than a blessing.  I don't need anything, though I might want certain specific things.  Most/all of my friends and family who are getting married and having babies (or whatever other gift giving event) are the same way.  We don't need anything.  We aren't expecting people to make it possible to take a honeymoon or furnish our homes.  We are financially stable.  We are not gimme pigs.  This is why I am a fan of experience gifts. This would be memorable for me.  This would make me think fondly of someone every time I thought about the experience.  A platter or extra toaster or towels I don't like that I immediately put in storage I am not likely to think of ever again.

But that's my risk to run.

You aren't entitled to receive something you will use. You're the giver--you don't actually get any role in picking out the present. Your role is completely, completely passive.

Honestly, if I buy you something from your registry, that you picked out, and you receive it along with lots of other things you picked out, will you remember who gave it to you?

And if you give it away bcs you won't use it, well, that's completely your role.

I'm confused.  Don't people keep a keepsake-list of wedding gifts anymore?

For me it was 34 years ago and we got many nice gifts, both from the registry and not.  We very much appreciated all of them.  And even though the china gravy boat (as an example) was on the registry, I still knew who gave it.

I see registries as a suggestion - nothing more.

A keepsake list? I have a spreadsheet I used so I could make sure I got all the TY cards out, but nothing I'd call a "keepsake".
What part of v_e = \sqrt{\frac{2GM}{r}} don't you understand? It's only rocket science!

"The problem with re-examining your brilliant ideas is that more often than not, you discover they are the intellectual equivalent of saying, 'Hold my beer and watch this!'" - Cindy Couture

#### Yvaine

• Member
• Posts: 9679
##### Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
« Reply #104 on: March 21, 2014, 01:09:55 PM »
But where's the experience of giving/receiving a gift if you tell someone *exactly* what you want and they buy it for you? You may as well just ask for the money and/or say "I want £100 to buy X item", which, thinking about it, I think is why I find it distasteful.

For me, gifts of tangible items that I have no use for are more of a burden than a blessing.  I don't need anything, though I might want certain specific things.  Most/all of my friends and family who are getting married and having babies (or whatever other gift giving event) are the same way.  We don't need anything.  We aren't expecting people to make it possible to take a honeymoon or furnish our homes.  We are financially stable.  We are not gimme pigs.  This is why I am a fan of experience gifts. This would be memorable for me.  This would make me think fondly of someone every time I thought about the experience.  A platter or extra toaster or towels I don't like that I immediately put in storage I am not likely to think of ever again.

But that's my risk to run.

You aren't entitled to receive something you will use. You're the giver--you don't actually get any role in picking out the present. Your role is completely, completely passive.

Honestly, if I buy you something from your registry, that you picked out, and you receive it along with lots of other things you picked out, will you remember who gave it to you?

And if you give it away bcs you won't use it, well, that's completely your role.

I'm confused.  Don't people keep a keepsake-list of wedding gifts anymore?

For me it was 34 years ago and we got many nice gifts, both from the registry and not.  We very much appreciated all of them.  And even though the china gravy boat (as an example) was on the registry, I still knew who gave it.

I see registries as a suggestion - nothing more.

A keepsake list? I have a spreadsheet I used so I could make sure I got all the TY cards out, but nothing I'd call a "keepsake".

Yeah kareng57, is that a "list of keepsakes" or is the list itself a keepsake, like put on fancy paper and framed or something?  If it's the latter, I don't think I've heard of it, but that may just be me.