Not every cold call is a telemarketer.

[Outdoor Girl]

But the home of someone acting in a business like capacity (organizing a ball team) for a church.

[perpetua]

As far as the identity of the caller not being the business of the person answering the phone, the fact is that (in business) many employees are instructed to get the name of the caller before putting the call thru.  It’s part of their job.  Many are also instructed to find out what the call is concerning.

Then they need to do their job and enquire by saying 'Who's calling please?' That's accepted phone etiquette and I don't see anything wrong with someone having to say that.

That aside, this thread was not initially about a call to a business – it’s about a call to someone’s home.

It's more or less. He's organising a team and has presumably given permission for his contact details to be listed on the flyer (or whatever it was, I can't remember. He's representing the church in that capacity and needs to be a bit more professional about answering his phone.

[TheaterDiva1]

As far as the identity of the caller not being the business of the person answering the phone, the fact is that (in business) many employees are instructed to get the name of the caller before putting the call thru.  It’s part of their job.  Many are also instructed to find out what the call is concerning.

Then they need to do their job and enquire by saying 'Who's calling please?' That's accepted phone etiquette and I don't see anything wrong with someone having to say that.

That's true and I do that at work. I'm a receptionist, and most calls, I just need to know where to transfer the call. I'd rather they started with "I'm checking on my order," or "Customer service, please." I hate calls that start with "Thus is Bob from ABC Store, Account 123." - then silence.
Me: "How may I direct your call?"
Bob: "Customer service."
Me (out loud): "Hold on, I'll transfer you." (To myself): "Well, why didn't you just say so?"

If a call if for a higher-up, I do have to screen. Again, nothing wrong with not IDing yourself right away, as long as you're prepared to do so when asked.

Two incoming calls I've dealt with:

Caller: Is CEO there?
Me: May I ask who's calling?
Caller: this is John Smith from ABC Company. I'm calling about (gives reason for call here).

Caller: Is CEO there?
Me: May I ask who's calling?
Caller: Mary (silence)
Me: What is this in reference to, Mary?
Caller (Mary) Your phone service.
Me: Where are you calling from?
Mary: St. Louis
Me: I meant what company?
Mary: XYZ Company.
Me: And what us this in reference to? (I need more than just "phone service and I can't think of a nice way to ask "what about it?" - I'm hoping repeating the question will be a hint that I need more detail.)
Mary: Your phone service.
Me: But what is it in REFERENCE to?
Mary: Is CEO there?

Both cases, I go to CEO with as much information as I have. Which call is more likely to go through?

My point: you don't have to ID yourself right off the bat, but please do so when asked. Don't make me have to drag it out of you.

[veronaz]

As far as the identity of the caller not being the business of the person answering the phone, the fact is that (in business) many employees are instructed to get the name of the caller before putting the call thru.  It’s part of their job.  Many are also instructed to find out what the call is concerning.

Then they need to do their job and enquire by saying 'Who's calling please?' That's accepted phone etiquette and I don't see anything wrong with someone having to say that.

That aside, this thread was not initially about a call to a business – it’s about a call to someone’s home.

It's more or less. He's organising a team and has presumably given permission for his contact details to be listed on the flyer (or whatever it was, I can't remember. He's representing the church in that capacity and needs to be a bit more professional about answering his phone.

And they DO do their job by asking who is calling - that was my point.  But some feel it's not the business of the person answering the phone, when, as I said, it is often very much their business.  Of course the caller can also say "Hello, this is Ms. xxx from XYC co.  Could I speak to Mr. X?"

Or, in a household with more than one person, It's not all that unusual for the person answering the phone to ask who is calling.  Or, better yet, "Hi, Bob.  This is veronaz.  How have you been?..........Is Jane available?" (as I did a couple hours ago when I called a friend and her DH answered).

Yes, the rude man referenced in the initial post needs to be more pleasant/professional.  That goes without saying; we all know that.  But who is going to make him do that?  (rhetorical)  Besides, HE isn't the one who posted asking for feedback and I doubt he reads this forum.

[TootsNYC]

Also, I think when calling a business, it's not so important to identify your self as to identify your purpose.   "I'm calling about a problem with my bill" will get you to the right person who can help you, or give the person on the other end time to pull up the correct computer screen to be able to help you.  And then when it's sure you are speaking to the one you need to speak to, then your name becomes important.  Said unprompted at any earlier point, I think it would just get lost in the shuffle and would have to be repeated anyway.

This is what I think someone in the OP's position should do. "Hi, I'm calling about the church softball league; is Mr. Johnson there?"

Because your "identity" is "someone who wants to know about the church softball league." Since they don't know you, your name isn't a part of your identity -to them.-



A doctor calling w/ test results can say, "Is Jane Smith there? I'm returning her call." But if they say, "Is Jane there?" my husband is going to say, "Can I tell her who's calling?" It's relatively rare that there's a true need for secrecy, and those rare instances--outliers--are not the reason for everyone else to abandon the etiquette of stating your business when to seek to interrupt someone at their job or in their home.

Business people say, "This is Sam, how may I help you?" But at home people don't. Callers should state their business (in some cases, that's just their identity). The fact that a few people have reasons to be excepted from the rule doesn't change it.

It was once the rule that a man stood when a lady entered the room. The fact that one guy was in a wheel chair and another guy was elderly and frail doesn't mean that all the other males were now suddenly exempt from that rule.

[Raintree]

Also, not every business should identify itself first. If my doctor, lawyer, CPA, calls they don't know who is answering the phone.  They need to ask for me without identifying themselves.  I may not want my husband, sons, son's friend answering the phone to know my business.

Exactly!! If I am calling for Person A, it's really none of Person B's business who is calling. It's Person A that I need to identify myself to.  Of course, Person B may say, "May I ask who is calling?" in which case I can tell them, or not, but I don't think it's automatically their business to know. If my doctor calls, and another family member picks up the phone and the doctor says, "It's Dr. So-and-So; I'd like to speak with Raintree" then several problems can occur: nosy family members wanting to know why my doctor's been calling, worry-warts hovering and wondering if everything's OK, etc. You might be waiting for the results of some highly sensitive and private medical test.

So this guy was totally rude; if he's going to put a pamphlet out there with his name and phone number on it, he's got to be prepared that people might, you know, call with inquiries.

How often does your doctor call you at home – with or without relatives hovering and worrying in the background?

Most people can count on less than half of one hand how many times their doctor has called them.

As far as the identity of the caller not being the business of the person answering the phone, the fact is that (in business) many employees are instructed to get the name of the caller before putting the call thru.  It’s part of their job.  Many are also instructed to find out what the call is concerning.

That aside, this thread was not initially about a call to a business – it’s about a call to someone’s home.

I agree it's different if you're calling a business. I should have specified, I WAS talking about calling someone's home (as the OP was). And doctor's offices call patients at home all the time, for all kinds of reasons (doctor needs you to come in again, doctor is referring you to a specialist and has your appointment time for you, test results are in and you need to come in to discuss them, etc.) I think it's absolutely good manners, not to mention an adherence to privacy protocol, for them to ascertain they are talking to the correct person first.

I still think if this guy in the OP put his name and number on a pamphlet, he shouldn't be too surprised if strangers call him and ask to speak to him.

[Danika]

The pamphlet didn't state that it was a men's only league. My guess is that it was not a men's only league. The man was embarrassed that he'd just cussed out and hung up on a new parishioner, so he had his wife return the call, and since it had been a female who had called, he manufactured a reason why she couldn't join the league. He was too embarrassed to deal with Hurricane Marathon further.

[Hurricane Marathon]

The pamphlet didn't state that it was a men's only league. My guess is that it was not a men's only league. The man was embarrassed that he'd just cussed out and hung up on a new parishioner, so he had his wife return the call, and since it had been a female who had called, he manufactured a reason why she couldn't join the league. He was too embarrassed to deal with Hurricane Marathon further.

This was exactly my thought at the time.

[Lady Snowdon]

As someone who works in the healthcare industry, I'm not supposed to identify myself or why I'm calling until I know who I have on the phone.  Saying to a random person on the phone, "Hi, I'm calling from Dr. Whosit's office, can I speak with Mr. Lancaster?" just told that person that Mr. Lancaster goes to Dr. Whosit, and that random person may have no need to know that.  Mr. Lancaster may not want that random person to know he goes to Dr. Whosit.  So I call and say, "Hi, I'm looking for Mr. Lancaster.  Is he available?"  Only after I get Mr. Lancaster on the phone can I say, "I'm LadySnowdon calling from Dr. Whosit's office.  I wanted to let you know about xyz."  I know it's what telemarketers say, but that's kind of what I'm limited to.  It's run over into my personal life too, unfortunately. 

[veronaz]

As someone who works in the healthcare industry, I'm not supposed to identify myself or why I'm calling until I know who I have on the phone.  Saying to a random person on the phone, "Hi, I'm calling from Dr. Whosit's office, can I speak with Mr. Lancaster?" just told that person that Mr. Lancaster goes to Dr. Whosit, and that random person may have no need to know that.  Mr. Lancaster may not want that random person to know he goes to Dr. Whosit.  So I call and say, "Hi, I'm looking for Mr. Lancaster.  Is he available?"  Only after I get Mr. Lancaster on the phone can I say, "I'm LadySnowdon calling from Dr. Whosit's office.  I wanted to let you know about xyz."  I know it's what telemarketers say, but that's kind of what I'm limited to.  It's run over into my personal life too, unfortunately.

The OP was not calling from a doctor’s office or as a representative of the healthcare industry.

I’ve seen several posts about calls from doctor’s offices, etc. and that’s veering away from the issue, imo.  No one is suggesting that anyone violate HIPPA, breach confidentiality, or break other laws/rules or that anyone divuldge secrets and cause chaos and hardship in someone’s life.

The OP could have simply said “Hi, my name is Mary Jones and I’m calling about the church softball league.  Is Mr xxxxx available?”

[CakeEater]

As someone who works in the healthcare industry, I'm not supposed to identify myself or why I'm calling until I know who I have on the phone.  Saying to a random person on the phone, "Hi, I'm calling from Dr. Whosit's office, can I speak with Mr. Lancaster?" just told that person that Mr. Lancaster goes to Dr. Whosit, and that random person may have no need to know that.  Mr. Lancaster may not want that random person to know he goes to Dr. Whosit.  So I call and say, "Hi, I'm looking for Mr. Lancaster.  Is he available?"  Only after I get Mr. Lancaster on the phone can I say, "I'm LadySnowdon calling from Dr. Whosit's office.  I wanted to let you know about xyz."  I know it's what telemarketers say, but that's kind of what I'm limited to.  It's run over into my personal life too, unfortunately.

Honestly, that's exactly what telemarketers say, and I've taken to saying 'no' and hanging up. Someone calling from a doctor's office would need to convince me that they had legitimate business in the first about 4 seconds of a call before I would pass the phone onto my DH, and vice versa.

Actually, now thinking about it, if a doctor's receptionist gave me their surname, that might make me think it's not a marketer. Or if they called back having been hung up on.

[veronaz]

I've had various telephones for decades, and I can't think of one instance when a "random person" has answered my telephone.  In fact, I can't even recall any "random people" hanging around in my home.

[TootsNYC]

Well, yes, but I can see that even a doctor's office doesn't want to tell my husband that I went to the doctor. Even family members aren't entitled to medical info.

However, I still maintain that a doctor's office (or the credit card company calling about a delinquent account) is an outlier. And all the rest of us should identify ourselves immediately, since the person on the other end of the phone has no idea who we are.

[veronaz]

Ah, yes.  The doctor’s office.

This discussion is reminding me of an office I worked in a long time ago.  Employees were spending way too much time on personal calls (spouses, gf/bf, chatty friends, etc.).  Management circulated a memo (this was before email) that essentially said personal calls should be kept to a minimum.  Employees immediately became defensive ….”Oh my!  What if my doctor’s office needs to reach me?   What about my children’s doctors?  Do they expect me to ignore calls from my doctor?  What if I need to call my doctor?”



As far as the thread topic, as I said before, the OP could have simply said “Hi, my name is Mary Jones and I’m calling about the church softball league.  Is Mr xxxxx available?”

[Hillia]

Again, given his response, I don't think she'd have gotten past, 'Hi, this is Hurricane...' because that is often how telemarketers start calls.  It's the 'I'm a personal friend' approach rather than the 'this is a legitimate business' approach.

And for the medical situation, a random person answering a phone call is anyone who is not the patient - spouse, parent of a child over 15 (I think), etc.