Author Topic: Should you have to specifically invite your date to order food?  (Read 6938 times)

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perpetua

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Re: Should you have to specifically invite your date to order food?
« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2014, 04:53:40 AM »
I wondered too about where the waiter was in all of this? Surely he would turn to her and ask her what she wanted after taking the guys order.
Or if it was a 'go to the counter and order' type place, speak up woman and order some food!

You know - what if he went to the bar to get drinks and ordered himself a meal without telling her he was going to, then his meal showed up at the table? That'd be rude, surely? If he never said 'I'm going to get something to eat, do you want to get something' or the like?

Teenyweeny

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Re: Should you have to specifically invite your date to order food?
« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2014, 06:50:37 AM »
I wondered too about where the waiter was in all of this? Surely he would turn to her and ask her what she wanted after taking the guys order.
Or if it was a 'go to the counter and order' type place, speak up woman and order some food!

You know - what if he went to the bar to get drinks and ordered himself a meal without telling her he was going to, then his meal showed up at the table? That'd be rude, surely? If he never said 'I'm going to get something to eat, do you want to get something' or the like?

Well, if he was in the UK, I can see how he could be rude. Not getting your round in is a pretty cardinal sin.

So if he left the table (as if he was niping  to the loo) and came back with a pint, having ordered himself some food, then that's rude. He doesn't necessarily have to pay for her food (I think buying rounds is just a nice thing to do, though of course the expectation there is that she gets the next one), but if he doesn't even make it known that he's getting food then that's a bit weird. Even if he just says "While I was up, I ordered a steak. Did you want to go and order something?"

This is all probably moot, since the LW was in the US though.



perpetua

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Re: Should you have to specifically invite your date to order food?
« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2014, 09:10:15 AM »
I wondered too about where the waiter was in all of this? Surely he would turn to her and ask her what she wanted after taking the guys order.
Or if it was a 'go to the counter and order' type place, speak up woman and order some food!

You know - what if he went to the bar to get drinks and ordered himself a meal without telling her he was going to, then his meal showed up at the table? That'd be rude, surely? If he never said 'I'm going to get something to eat, do you want to get something' or the like?

Well, if he was in the UK, I can see how he could be rude. Not getting your round in is a pretty cardinal sin.

So if he left the table (as if he was niping  to the loo) and came back with a pint, having ordered himself some food, then that's rude. He doesn't necessarily have to pay for her food (I think buying rounds is just a nice thing to do, though of course the expectation there is that she gets the next one), but if he doesn't even make it known that he's getting food then that's a bit weird. Even if he just says "While I was up, I ordered a steak. Did you want to go and order something?"

This is all probably moot, since the LW was in the US though.

The scenario I was envisaging was nothing to do with not paying for her dinner or ordering it for her, but that he got up and ordered himself food without mentioning it and the first she knew of it was when his dinner turned up. This wouldn't happen in a restaurant of course, but in a pub or bar I could see this happening and it would be very rude.

Twik

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Re: Should you have to specifically invite your date to order food?
« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2014, 10:47:42 AM »
Well, the letter says "he never asked if I wanted anything to eat or drink". So, I'll go on the assumption that the writer wasn't waiting for him to say "The lady will have...." to the waiter and order for her, but that he really did order a meal without asking his date if she'd like something, or whether she were planning on eating.

Perhaps he assumed that she would buy her own meal, and felt that even asking "I'm going to have the prime rib - what are you getting?" would force him to pick up the cheque. Now, he may not have been rude under current etiquette for not paying for a meal on the first date, but he would certainly be rude for ordering for himself, and in effect having a meal in front of her, not with her.

I would be willing to buy my own meal on a first date, but I would be rather horrified if my date ordered for himself as if he were eating alone. That's the point of having dinner together, is it not? It's not the fault of people with tattoos, but it's certainly poor date (or any sort of social) behaviour. Even if you are just having coffee together, someone usually starts by saying, "I'll have the muffin, do you want one too?"
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MrTango

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Re: Should you have to specifically invite your date to order food?
« Reply #19 on: March 25, 2014, 10:53:27 AM »
You are going to a restaurant, you're presumably going to have something to eat and drink.

Agreed.  In fact, if I went out and my date didn't order something to eat/drink, I'd be asking her if something was wrong.

pinkflamingo

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Re: Should you have to specifically invite your date to order food?
« Reply #20 on: March 25, 2014, 12:07:56 PM »
I'm trying to envision a scenario where a woman sits at an eating/drinking establishment in the United States with absolutely nothing in front of her while her date has a beer and prime rib and this is totally unremarked upon. I'm having difficulty.

The only way I could see it happening is if they're at a bar/pub with no wait staff where all ordering is done through the bartender and someone from the kitchen delivers meals, but does no other serving. The sticking point for me in this scenario is the prime rib, which suggests a place with slightly higher standards because prime rib can't just be microwaved or thrown on a grill. So, in addition to having an actual cook in the kitchen, I'm going to assume there is also some form of waitstaff. I'm going to further extrapolate that the letter writer is upset not because *no one* asked her if she wanted anything but because her date didn't say some magic words to her, which makes her kind of a Special Snowflake.

Finally, and slightly off-topic, sailors are some of the politest people I know.  :)

Twik

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Re: Should you have to specifically invite your date to order food?
« Reply #21 on: March 25, 2014, 12:16:26 PM »
To be fair, the letter writer didn't say that she didn't speak up. Her concern was that she wasn't asked. And I would agree, that if her date ordered a meal for himself, and never once asked, "And what are you having?" it would strike me as very strange, and pretty rude.

However, I agree there's a subtext that she expects that her date should not only have asked her, but have paid for her meal. That becomes more subtle. If he invited her with "I'd like to take you out to dinner," I'd say she is right in believing he's intending to pay, let alone ask her if she actually wants, you know, dinner. If he said, "Hey, how about we meet up at Murphy's Grill and chat for a while?" then it's more likely that he intended them to buy their own meals separately. However, it would still be rude of him to order his own food to eat in front of her without asking, "Hey, you want anything?"
My cousin's memoir of love and loneliness while raising a child with multiple disabilities will be out on Amazon soon! Know the Night, by Maria Mutch, has been called "full of hope, light, and companionship for surviving the small hours of the night."

Allyson

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Re: Should you have to specifically invite your date to order food?
« Reply #22 on: March 25, 2014, 11:56:58 PM »
Ok, who else read this first at That Bad Advice?  ;D

Yeah, this didn't make any sense to me either. Did she sit there with nothing when he ate? Odd. Did she order, but was just grumpy he didn't specifically say the words "and what are you having?" If I were out to dinner with anyone I really don't think those words would be necessary--I mean, the waiter is there, taking both their orders, why would her date also need to ask what she's having? Does she ask him what *he's* having?

Maybe they were sitting somewhere where they had to go up to the counter to order, and they were sitting chatting and he got up to order without saying something like "ok, I'm going to grab some food, are you getting anything?"

The comment about tattoos makes me think she perhaps has traditional gender expectations and her date did not. Certainly incompatibility, but not, I would say, a case of either person being rude.

perpetua

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Re: Should you have to specifically invite your date to order food?
« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2014, 04:12:54 AM »
Why is everyone so fixated on there being a waiter and the woman not speaking up at the time of ordering? They may not have even been in a restaurant. It would be very easy for someone to get up and go to a bar to order food without telling the other person which I presume is what happened here and which would be very rude. The first this woman might have known of it was when the guy's meal arrived at the table.

Do you guys not have pub meals etc? Because that would be a very common scenario here. You order your food at the bar and there is no waiter.

Teenyweeny

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Re: Should you have to specifically invite your date to order food?
« Reply #24 on: March 26, 2014, 06:02:47 AM »
Why is everyone so fixated on there being a waiter and the woman not speaking up at the time of ordering? They may not have even been in a restaurant. It would be very easy for someone to get up and go to a bar to order food without telling the other person which I presume is what happened here and which would be very rude. The first this woman might have known of it was when the guy's meal arrived at the table.

Do you guys not have pub meals etc? Because that would be a very common scenario here. You order your food at the bar and there is no waiter.

In my experience of the US, that's very uncommon (for food, anyway). The only place I've been where you go to the bar to order food (apart from the UK, and in a non-fast-food place) is Australia.



Harriet Jones

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Re: Should you have to specifically invite your date to order food?
« Reply #25 on: March 26, 2014, 06:27:11 AM »
Why is everyone so fixated on there being a waiter and the woman not speaking up at the time of ordering? They may not have even been in a restaurant. It would be very easy for someone to get up and go to a bar to order food without telling the other person which I presume is what happened here and which would be very rude. The first this woman might have known of it was when the guy's meal arrived at the table.

Do you guys not have pub meals etc? Because that would be a very common scenario here. You order your food at the bar and there is no waiter.

A steak would be very unusual for a "pub meal".  Bars where there are no waiters probably wouldn't have a full kitchen, either.  You can get food, but usually not very good food.

Dazi

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Re: Should you have to specifically invite your date to order food?
« Reply #26 on: March 26, 2014, 06:50:03 AM »
Why is everyone so fixated on there being a waiter and the woman not speaking up at the time of ordering? They may not have even been in a restaurant. It would be very easy for someone to get up and go to a bar to order food without telling the other person which I presume is what happened here and which would be very rude. The first this woman might have known of it was when the guy's meal arrived at the table.

Do you guys not have pub meals etc? Because that would be a very common scenario here. You order your food at the bar and there is no waiter.

Short of Cafeteria style places (Piccadilly and Morrison's comes to mind), all you can eat buffets, fast food places, and a few tiki bar places at the beach in the Florida Keys (where you can probably only order fish and chips or conch fritters). I can't think of any restaurant/bar/grill/pub in the US that you could order a steak meal that wouldn't have a waitstaff of some kind.  Maybe somewhere there is a place with that setup, but I've traveled coast to coast at least twice by car and never came across one.

Granted, there are plenty of pubs you can get the bartender to place a food order.  It's just not the norm.  I have done it on take out orders at the local pub though.  I just find it odd that no waiter came over at any point to drop off drinks or take their orders.

I find the letter really doesn't provide enough information though.  Was she expecting him to order for her? Did he place an order without her knowing?  Is she ticked he didn't pick up the check? Did the waiter have to ask her what she wanted?  Did she just sit there while he ate?  There are just too many unanswered questions for me to form an opinion either way.
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iridaceae

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Re: Should you have to specifically invite your date to order food?
« Reply #27 on: March 26, 2014, 07:07:43 AM »
Why is everyone so fixated on there being a waiter and the woman not speaking up at the time of ordering? They may not have even been in a restaurant. It would be very easy for someone to get up and go to a bar to order food without telling the other person which I presume is what happened here and which would be very rude. The first this woman might have known of it was when the guy's meal arrived at the table.

Do you guys not have pub meals etc? Because that would be a very common scenario here. You order your food at the bar and there is no waiter.

There might be-probably is- a few "real" pub type restaurants here in the US but it's not the norm. I've never seen prime rib offered at anything but full service restaurants or buffets. Prime rib is way too fatty for me but in the Midwest at least it's kind of a hallmark of a nicer restaurant.

Another Sarah

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Re: Should you have to specifically invite your date to order food?
« Reply #28 on: March 26, 2014, 08:05:54 AM »
The implication I read was that he ordered food and drink in front of her to a waiter and didn't ask at the time if she wanted anything as well, but I have no idea why that would be bad manners - surely it's implied?

Perpetua, I can see how if they were waiting at the bar and he ordered for himself only or if he sneaked off to do it and he did this it would be abominably rude, but I don't see anything to suggest that and I'm sure she would have mentioned it - it adds to the story if he wandered off, came back with a beer and then a plate of food arrived.

From her comment about the tattooed gals, I'm not inclined to give this woman the benefit of the doubt

shhh its me

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Re: Should you have to specifically invite your date to order food?
« Reply #29 on: March 26, 2014, 08:26:30 AM »
To be fair, the letter writer didn't say that she didn't speak up. Her concern was that she wasn't asked. And I would agree, that if her date ordered a meal for himself, and never once asked, "And what are you having?" it would strike me as very strange, and pretty rude.

However, I agree there's a subtext that she expects that her date should not only have asked her, but have paid for her meal. That becomes more subtle. If he invited her with "I'd like to take you out to dinner," I'd say she is right in believing he's intending to pay, let alone ask her if she actually wants, you know, dinner. If he said, "Hey, how about we meet up at Murphy's Grill and chat for a while?" then it's more likely that he intended them to buy their own meals separately. However, it would still be rude of him to order his own food to eat in front of her without asking, "Hey, you want anything?"

It depends on how it happened.  IF I was sitting at a table with someone and the waitress/er cam round I would just order too, I wouldn't think my date was rude for not prompting me to order.  IF he had to leave the table without me knowing he was ordering food or ordered while I was in the bathroom (without telling the waitress to come back. I would actually expect him not to order till I got back but would consider it minor) I would find that rude. 

It sounds more like she was upset he didn't offer to buy her dinner.