Author Topic: "Stealing" a Baby Name  (Read 35155 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Zizi-K

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 799
Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
« Reply #225 on: June 01, 2014, 05:53:46 PM »
I'm not sure how to feel about this. My sister just had a baby, and she claimed basically all of the paternal names for her son. I'm not using real names here, but if my maternal grandfather was named James Doe Smith and my paternal grandfather was named Jack Black, she named her son Smith Doe Jack Lastname. Unfortunately the names are not generic, but rather they are very specific and unique. Jack is not a second middle name (I think), that is, I don't think its on the birth certificate, but it is going to be used as his Hebrew name. For those who don't know, each Jew is given a Hebrew name to be used when called up to the Torah, for an aliyah, or during the misheberach or prayer for the sick.) I assume that Israelis or people who are named a Jewish name don't then have another one.

Anyway, I haven't said anything, but I was like, Wow, way to claim ALL of the familial boys names. (I realize that I have no claim to these names, and I won't be saying anything to her. But I still don't like it and feel like she was greedy.)

Minmom3

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2463
Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
« Reply #226 on: June 01, 2014, 10:28:28 PM »
When you have a boy, use the family name you want to use. Maybe combined with your husband/baby's father's family names, it won't sound like clone 1 and clone 2.  Her use of the names does not preclude your use of the same names.
Mother to children and fuzz butts....

HannahGrace

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 504
Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
« Reply #227 on: June 01, 2014, 11:05:07 PM »
Agree with Minimom.  I assume there have to be some good family names on your husband's side!

Zizi-K

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 799
Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
« Reply #228 on: June 01, 2014, 11:25:29 PM »
Naturally there are other options, which include names from my husband's side as well as all the other names in the world. However, the names on my side are so unique, her use of them really does preclude my use of them, at least for me. That's just the way I feel about it. I will never express it to her, but I just don't understand the logic of using up literally all the decent names on our side on one kid. If she has another son, he won't have any family names. (Jewish cultural beliefs preclude using the names of live relatives, seeing it as inviting the evil eye.) My father only has one brother that has passed away, and his name is very generic and not one that I'd be interested in.

TootsNYC

  • A Pillar of the Forum
  • *****
  • Posts: 31749
Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
« Reply #229 on: June 02, 2014, 12:13:07 PM »
I'm not sure how to feel about this. My sister just had a baby, and she claimed basically all of the paternal names for her son. I'm not using real names here, but if my maternal grandfather was named James Doe Smith and my paternal grandfather was named Jack Black, she named her son Smith Doe Jack Lastname. Unfortunately the names are not generic, but rather they are very specific and unique. Jack is not a second middle name (I think), that is, I don't think its on the birth certificate, but it is going to be used as his Hebrew name. For those who don't know, each Jew is given a Hebrew name to be used when called up to the Torah, for an aliyah, or during the misheberach or prayer for the sick.) I assume that Israelis or people who are named a Jewish name don't then have another one.

Anyway, I haven't said anything, but I was like, Wow, way to claim ALL of the familial boys names. (I realize that I have no claim to these names, and I won't be saying anything to her. But I still don't like it and feel like she was greedy.)

Maybe she felt obligated to balance out all the "honoring grandparents" pressures. I don't consider this "claiming." Time was when having the same name as a family member was completely normal.

There was no "using up" of names. People can have the same name as someone else. Especially is this completely common for middle names, where using a family name is kinda ordinary.

I don't think there still is any "using up" of names.

daen

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 889
Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
« Reply #230 on: June 02, 2014, 12:18:57 PM »
I'm not sure how to feel about this. My sister just had a baby, and she claimed basically all of the paternal names for her son. I'm not using real names here, but if my maternal grandfather was named James Doe Smith and my paternal grandfather was named Jack Black, she named her son Smith Doe Jack Lastname. Unfortunately the names are not generic, but rather they are very specific and unique. Jack is not a second middle name (I think), that is, I don't think its on the birth certificate, but it is going to be used as his Hebrew name. For those who don't know, each Jew is given a Hebrew name to be used when called up to the Torah, for an aliyah, or during the misheberach or prayer for the sick.) I assume that Israelis or people who are named a Jewish name don't then have another one.

Anyway, I haven't said anything, but I was like, Wow, way to claim ALL of the familial boys names. (I realize that I have no claim to these names, and I won't be saying anything to her. But I still don't like it and feel like she was greedy.)

Maybe she felt obligated to balance out all the "honoring grandparents" pressures. I don't consider this "claiming." Time was when having the same name as a family member was completely normal.

There was no "using up" of names. People can have the same name as someone else. Especially is this completely common for middle names, where using a family name is kinda ordinary.

I don't think there still is any "using up" of names.

Zizi-K did mention in a subsequent post the belief that a family name shared amongst living relatives invites bad luck. In that case,  I can understand that the names would be considered "used up" until the person holding them died.

wolfie

  • I don't know what this is so I am putting random words here
  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 7361
Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
« Reply #231 on: June 02, 2014, 12:56:09 PM »
I'm not sure how to feel about this. My sister just had a baby, and she claimed basically all of the paternal names for her son. I'm not using real names here, but if my maternal grandfather was named James Doe Smith and my paternal grandfather was named Jack Black, she named her son Smith Doe Jack Lastname. Unfortunately the names are not generic, but rather they are very specific and unique. Jack is not a second middle name (I think), that is, I don't think its on the birth certificate, but it is going to be used as his Hebrew name. For those who don't know, each Jew is given a Hebrew name to be used when called up to the Torah, for an aliyah, or during the misheberach or prayer for the sick.) I assume that Israelis or people who are named a Jewish name don't then have another one.

Anyway, I haven't said anything, but I was like, Wow, way to claim ALL of the familial boys names. (I realize that I have no claim to these names, and I won't be saying anything to her. But I still don't like it and feel like she was greedy.)

Maybe she felt obligated to balance out all the "honoring grandparents" pressures. I don't consider this "claiming." Time was when having the same name as a family member was completely normal.

There was no "using up" of names. People can have the same name as someone else. Especially is this completely common for middle names, where using a family name is kinda ordinary.

I don't think there still is any "using up" of names.

Zizi-K did mention in a subsequent post the belief that a family name shared amongst living relatives invites bad luck. In that case,  I can understand that the names would be considered "used up" until the person holding them died.

And for me I just will not name my child the same name another child that is close to me. I really don't like that idea. Which is fine for me since I don't plan on having kids anyway but if I did them my nephew's names would be off the table no matter what. Just a personal preference.

z_squared82

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 546
Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
« Reply #232 on: June 02, 2014, 07:17:03 PM »
So my mother had six miscarriages. The baby she lost right before me was a daughter who she and Dad named Old Fashioned Name. I have said for as long as I can remember that I want to use Old Fashioned Name should I ever have a daughter.

My cousin is pregnant. Independently from one another, she and her husband both decided they like Old Fashioned Name if they have a girl. Cousin asks my mom how she feels about this (but please don't tell anyone what name we're thinking of). Mom isn't quite sure how she feels about it, but lets Cousin know that she will have to talk to me, too, since I've always said I wanted to use that name. Cousin, evidently, had no idea about that.

I told Mom I was fine with it b/c there is no guarantee I'll ever have any children, much less a daughter, and even if I do, my daughter and Cousin's daughter would be years apart age wise. (I'm actually a little upset, but that has more to do with the idea of never having kids, which is becoming ever more a possibility.) Mom said she was going to have to keep thinking on it b/c while it's kind of flattering, she had also never considered that someone else in the family might use that name and she doesn't know if she can handle hearing Aunt constantly say, "Well, OFN is doing this" or "OFN was so cute the other day, she..." and know that it's not her little girl.

So props to Cousin for thinking about Mom, but I don't know if Cousin considered that Mom might actually have a problem with it.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2014, 08:56:12 AM by z_squared82 »

Ceallach

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4815
    • This Is It
Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
« Reply #233 on: June 03, 2014, 03:34:47 AM »
So my mother had six miscarriages. The baby she lost right before me was a daughter who she and Dad named Old Fashioned Name. I have said for as long as I can remember that I want to use Old Fashioned Name should I never have a daughter.

My cousin is pregnant. Independently from one another, she and her husband both decided they like Old Fashioned Name if they have a girl. Cousin asks my mom how she feels about this (but please don't tell anyone what name we're thinking of). Mom isn't quite sure how she feels about it, but lets Cousin know that she will have to talk to me, too, since I've always said I wanted to use that name. Cousin, evidently, had no idea about that.

I told Mom I was fine with it b/c there is no guarantee I'll ever have any children, much less a daughter, and even if I do, my daughter and Cousin's daughter would be years apart age wise. (I'm actually a little upset, but that has more to do with the idea of never having kids, which is becoming ever more a possibility.) Mom said she was going to have to keep thinking on it b/c while it's kind of flattering, she had also never considered that someone else in the family might use that name and she doesn't know if she can handle hearing Aunt constantly say, "Well, OFN is doing this" or "OFN was so cute the other day, she..." and know that it's not her little girl.

So props to Cousin for thinking about Mom, but I don't know if Cousin considered that Mom might actually have a problem with it.

I think it was sweet of Cousin to check, but at the same time I don't think it would be reasonable of your Mom to say no.  I think if it would upset her she should say so, but she should also acknowledge their right to use the name.   I think the most she could say would be "To be honest it would take awhile for me to get used to hearing OFN, when I hear OFN I think of my little girl, but it is a beautiful name and I understand if you decide to use it. Thank you for considering my feelings."     Because the question is, how would she feel if she tells them no but they decide to use it anyway, seeing nobody owns a name?   
"Nobody can do everything, but everybody can do something"


TootsNYC

  • A Pillar of the Forum
  • *****
  • Posts: 31749
Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
« Reply #234 on: June 03, 2014, 09:58:19 AM »
There are ways for your mom to wrap her head around it, hearing that name. "Oh, the little girl who honors my girl is doing something..." Thinking of the Nzew Gloria as a continuation or the communal part of parental love (all us parents are members of the same club, I think), maybe.

baglady

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4661
  • A big lass and a bonny lass and she loves her beer
Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
« Reply #235 on: June 03, 2014, 07:12:22 PM »
I would like someone who is Jewish to enlighten me on something. I know (from my Jewish ex-husband) that Jews don't name children after living relatives -- only after the dead. Ex wanted to give his son the middle name Steven, after his living brother, but because of that tradition, he went with Evan -- the male version of his late grandmother Eva's name.

But if two contemporary relatives both want to give their child the same name, does it count as "naming after"? If Sister 1 names her daughter Sarah, and two years later, Sister 2 has a daughter and names her Sarah, she's not named *for* cousin Sarah. She just happens to like the name (or maybe both Sarahs are named after the same late relative).
My photography is on Redbubble! Come see: http://www.redbubble.com/people/baglady

MommyPenguin

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4631
    • My blog!
Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
« Reply #236 on: June 03, 2014, 08:23:57 PM »
My guess is that since it's the same generation, it wouldn't count as "naming after" so much.

My mom (who was Jewish but recently converted) told me that the concept is that it's dangerous to name a child after a living relative, because when Death comes to take the elderly relative, he might make a mistake and take the child instead.  However, I'm not sure if that's actually the reason for the tradition or if that's just sort of a fairytale attempt to explain something that she wasn't really sure about.  If it *is* the reason, though, then that would imply that it's less of an issue in the case you mention because both are in the same generation, so it's not likely that one will die significantly before the other, causing the younger one to die as a child because of a mistake.

My real first name is Sarah (just like your example!) and my mom is Susan.  She was named after her grandmother, who was a Sarah (or Sara?) but who was alive at the time of my mother's birth, and so my mother couldn't be named Sarah after her since she was living.  My mother was named Susan since it's a derivative of Sarah, but she spent her whole life wishing she'd been named Sarah and finally was able to bestow it on me.  Fortunately, I've always loved my name.  :)

lowspark

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4165
Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
« Reply #237 on: June 04, 2014, 08:20:55 AM »
That particular superstition is one that is perpetuated by European Jews. I descend from Middle Eastern Jews and our tradition is exactly the opposite. In our tradition, you name your first born son after his father's father, first born daughter after father's mother. Second child is similarly named after the mother's parents. After that it's a free for all.

So in my generation, my oldest sister has the same name of several cousins on my father's side, and my second oldest sister has the same name as a few cousins on my mother's side. No boys in my family but there were several male cousins on my father's side who shared a name. Of course, on my mother's side, the boy cousins all had different names.

Note that this tradition holds regardless of whether grandparent is alive or dead, and usually they were alive. And note that although there were several first cousins who had the same name, no one felt the name had been appropriated. It was expected.


z_squared82

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 546
Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
« Reply #238 on: June 04, 2014, 08:58:15 AM »
So my mother had six miscarriages. The baby she lost right before me was a daughter who she and Dad named Old Fashioned Name. I have said for as long as I can remember that I want to use Old Fashioned Name should I never have a daughter.

My cousin is pregnant. Independently from one another, she and her husband both decided they like Old Fashioned Name if they have a girl. Cousin asks my mom how she feels about this (but please don't tell anyone what name we're thinking of). Mom isn't quite sure how she feels about it, but lets Cousin know that she will have to talk to me, too, since I've always said I wanted to use that name. Cousin, evidently, had no idea about that.

I told Mom I was fine with it b/c there is no guarantee I'll ever have any children, much less a daughter, and even if I do, my daughter and Cousin's daughter would be years apart age wise. (I'm actually a little upset, but that has more to do with the idea of never having kids, which is becoming ever more a possibility.) Mom said she was going to have to keep thinking on it b/c while it's kind of flattering, she had also never considered that someone else in the family might use that name and she doesn't know if she can handle hearing Aunt constantly say, "Well, OFN is doing this" or "OFN was so cute the other day, she..." and know that it's not her little girl.

So props to Cousin for thinking about Mom, but I don't know if Cousin considered that Mom might actually have a problem with it.

I think it was sweet of Cousin to check, but at the same time I don't think it would be reasonable of your Mom to say no.  I think if it would upset her she should say so, but she should also acknowledge their right to use the name.   I think the most she could say would be "To be honest it would take awhile for me to get used to hearing OFN, when I hear OFN I think of my little girl, but it is a beautiful name and I understand if you decide to use it. Thank you for considering my feelings."     Because the question is, how would she feel if she tells them no but they decide to use it anyway, seeing nobody owns a name?

I don't think Mom is going to say no, I believe she feels that would be unreasonable and a little silly. I think she'll probably just share her concerns and then tell Cousin to do what she thinks is best. And there's still a 50/50 shot she's having a boy and the whole conversation is moot.

Zizi-K

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 799
Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
« Reply #239 on: June 04, 2014, 12:09:08 PM »
That particular superstition is one that is perpetuated by European Jews. I descend from Middle Eastern Jews and our tradition is exactly the opposite. In our tradition, you name your first born son after his father's father, first born daughter after father's mother. Second child is similarly named after the mother's parents. After that it's a free for all.

So in my generation, my oldest sister has the same name of several cousins on my father's side, and my second oldest sister has the same name as a few cousins on my mother's side. No boys in my family but there were several male cousins on my father's side who shared a name. Of course, on my mother's side, the boy cousins all had different names.

Note that this tradition holds regardless of whether grandparent is alive or dead, and usually they were alive. And note that although there were several first cousins who had the same name, no one felt the name had been appropriated. It was expected.

My family is Sephardic, but we've attended an Ashkenazi synagogue my whole life. My middle name is my grandmother's name, who had just passed away when I was born. So I'm not sure whether this particular superstition is a long tradition in the family, or more recently adopted. Personally, I am not superstitious at all, but would rather avoid naming a child after a living relative more for their comfort than my own. I don't think that my use of a name that my sister recently chose would be covered under this belief, I think it has more to do with naming a child after an older relative. My feelings are along the lines of what wolfie described. We have a small family, and my sister's kids will be the only cousins that my (hypothetical) children will likely know or be close to. It just does not make sense to me to choose the same name that was just chosen by my sister. Sorry if it sounds like I'm making a mountain out of a molehill - as I said in my first post, I'm not sure how I feel about it. I had a feeling of not liking it, but when I think of the wide world of names out there, there are a lot of great options so I'm not so bothered. My sister does tend to be a little self-centered, so it was more like "oh, sure, there she goes again!" But this is entirely overshadowed by how thrilled we are about the baby. So life goes on!