Author Topic: "He's not supposed to have an opinion!"  (Read 8122 times)

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whatsanenigma

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Re: "He's not supposed to have an opinion!"
« Reply #30 on: March 30, 2014, 09:54:20 PM »
Quote
I think that for the most part, it is the women who have been fantasizing about their weddings, sometimes for many years.

I wore a white dress. My sister was in the bridal party. Those were the only parts of my teenage fantasy wedding that actually carried over to my actual wedding, when I was 29.

I was going to be married at Christmastime -- December 28th, to be exact, the anniversary of my baptism -- with my bridesmaids in red velvet. We were going to write our own vows and sing them to each other. I was going to wear a hoop skirt.

By the time I actually got engaged, those fantasies had fallen by the wayside. I realized that Christmastime weddings were highly impractical. My groom was tone-deaf, so the singing vows thing was out, even if I still wanted to do them. And the early '70s hoop-skirt revival for wedding gowns had died, along with my taste for them. Also, a lot of my teen wedding fantasies involved a particular guy; when my obsession with teen crush/fantasy future groom fizzled, so did the wedding scenario.

In the end, my real groom had to push me to get involved in wedding planning. When we got down to the nitty gritty, it was way more overwhelming than my teenage fantasy -- all that business with venues and caterers and invitations. I wanted no part of it. We ended up doing all the planning together, but neither of us had any real emotional investment in the particulars.

At the core of it, though, wasn't that still your fantasy? You were imagining standing up in front of some people saying vows with someone you really loved.  You changed the outer details, its true.  Some because of practical things, some because you probably just outgrew thinking that particular detail would be cool. 

It didn't look like your original fantasy.  But in terms of the feelings you had, about there being a ceremony that everyone liked and that involved marrying someone you loved...sounds like you got exactly that.   :)

violinp

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Re: "He's not supposed to have an opinion!"
« Reply #31 on: March 31, 2014, 12:30:38 AM »
My dad has said to Cabbage and me many times: "A wedding is a bride's fantasy. The honeymoon is the groom's fantasy." Aside from the disgusting implications inherent in that, it always irritated me that my dad, who is generally an open - minded man, acted like only women should care about how the wedding goes. After all, the marriage is not one - sided, but two people uniting to make a life together. It also cracks me up, since Dad's the sentimental one and Mom's the practical one, but I digress...

You know your dad better than I do, obviously, and would know what he really does mean, but if I just heard some random person I didn't know say it, I wouldn't necessarily think anything was "disgusting" or that the person was saying only women should care about their weddings.

I think that for the most part, it is the women who have been fantasizing about their weddings, sometimes for many years.  (Though there are some exceptions, of course, where either the bride has not, or the groom has.)  It doesn't necessarily mean she won't/doesn't want to compromise or shouldn't have to/be expected to, for budget reasons or because the groom wants something different or his family situation isn't what she was expecting or whatever, but that at the core of it, her fantasy is coming to life, changed to fit reality to whatever degree.

And about the honeymoon being the "groom's fantasy", well, there is the obvious, yes.  But also, I can imagine that during wedding preparations, a groom might feel a bit distant from his bride, even if they are both perfectly happy with his level of involvement in planning, whatever that level might be.  And the wedding itself (if it's like the weddings I've been a part of!) is a really fun day but really busy and hectic.  Lots of things going on at once, lots of details to keep track of...quite exhausting.

So, I can see that the honeymoon might turn out to be the "groom's fantasy" in that sense, where he gets his bride all to himself again for a while, and they can talk and relax and enjoy each other's company.  No having to go to work or school, no family or friends to entertain, just time alone with his new wife, catching back up with her, and doing what they want to do together, whether that be just lying on a beach and talking, or seeing a lot of sites in a hurry, or whatever.  (And when they start off down a sidewalk together, it doesn't make one bit of difference if they both start off on the left foot or not!)

But you know your dad and what he means, of course.  I'm just saying the impression I would have if my dad or someone else said that to or around me.   :)

I think that is a very charitable interpretation! 

(Although I still expect the "original" quote is meant to be a crude old joke about the bride wanting to plan a big event and wear a pretty dress, while the groom wants to finally get into the bride's pants  :-\ ).

Ceallach, you're mostly right. Then again, all my dad really cared about during the wedding planning with my mom was that my mom had said yes to his proposal - his own father told him that Dad didn't deserve her (that was before they married), and my dad has a deep inferiority complex for many, many reasons. He sometimes still talks to me about how he doesn't deserve Mom after 26 years of marriage. I think that his experience with weddings is really colored by his own wedding and marriage.

I think most of his ideas of marriage and weddings are just bizarre, though, considering the woman he married. My mom has sentimentality about her, but certainly not about weddings. She never had fantasies about her wedding. I'm serious; she never gave it serious thought at all. She gave her wedding dress (which was the second dress she tried on) away to Goodwill a couple of years ago because she couldn't wear it again and she never expected Cabbage or me to use it (she's 5'6", Cabbage's 5'1", and I'm 4'11"). She doesn't remember the first dance they had, nor does Dad, because they didn't choose the song - my aunt was DJ'ing and chose a random waltz. And the list would go on.

Me? I've been fantasizing about my wedding since I was at least 8, if not before. Heck, I've joke - offered to plan my sister's wedding for her, should she ever become engaged (though I'm sure she's more than capable of doing all that herself) because I love weddings so much. I'm much more like Dad, who's very sentimental despite himself, than Mom, in that regard.
"It takes a great deal of courage to stand up to your enemies, but even more to stand up to your friends" - Harry Potter


kareng57

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Re: "He's not supposed to have an opinion!"
« Reply #32 on: March 31, 2014, 01:12:26 AM »
This is something that you overheard - I gather that you don't know these people?  So I think that we can't really judge, from a distance.

Maybe her fiance is someone like my DS who is getting married in September.  His idea of a great wedding is to have pizza and beer in their backyard. :)  So I think that if he was suddenly expressing an opinion about menu, decor etc. it would certainly take DIL-to-be by surprise.  No, I don't think that she would use the expression in the OP - but I figure that it might have been kind of taken out of context.

shadowfox79

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Re: "He's not supposed to have an opinion!"
« Reply #33 on: March 31, 2014, 07:19:45 AM »
DH's attitude towards our wedding was that if he wasn't going to have to wear it, eat it or sleep in it himself, he wasn't bothered. So we collaborated on the honeymoon, hotel and food (he bought his own suit) and I handled all the things like flowers, invitations, dress etc myself.

I'd have been happy if he had had an opinion, but as it happened, he didn't. Other men I know did, to varying degrees.

katycoo

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Re: "He's not supposed to have an opinion!"
« Reply #34 on: March 31, 2014, 07:35:37 AM »
Is "surprised they're interested" code for "they must be g_y" ?

No.  Just that they didn't expect them to care.

My DH had zero proactive opinions.  If I wanted his input I had to give him 2 or 3 options to choose from. And then it was more veto than like.

MariaE

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Re: "He's not supposed to have an opinion!"
« Reply #35 on: March 31, 2014, 07:52:46 AM »
My friend went to register for china and discovered that her husband had strong opinions and insisted on being included in the decision. OK, fine, but then it turned out that he wanted something very different from what she'd had her heart set on. They ended up with something she didn't really love. And when they moved to a smaller space, they put it in storage bcs she didn't like it enough to find room for it in their place.
    I was really sad on her behalf.

Wouldn't it have been equally sad if it had ended up in storage because they'd found something that he didn't like enough to find room for? I think it's sad that they couldn't find a compromise that they could both agree on - not that they had to compromise in the first place.

 
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Peppergirl

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Re: "He's not supposed to have an opinion!"
« Reply #36 on: March 31, 2014, 09:10:43 AM »

He also fully expected to go wedding-dress shopping with her. She finally made him ask the women in his office what they thought about that idea.

Ha! I love this. I'd love to have been a fly on the wall at their reactions, too.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2014, 10:54:04 AM by Peppergirl »

Kiwichick

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Re: "He's not supposed to have an opinion!"
« Reply #37 on: March 31, 2014, 10:46:01 AM »
My dad has said to Cabbage and me many times: "A wedding is a bride's fantasy. The honeymoon is the groom's fantasy." Aside from the disgusting implications inherent in that, it always irritated me that my dad, who is generally an open - minded man, acted like only women should care about how the wedding goes. After all, the marriage is not one - sided, but two people uniting to make a life together. It also cracks me up, since Dad's the sentimental one and Mom's the practical one, but I digress...

You know your dad better than I do, obviously, and would know what he really does mean, but if I just heard some random person I didn't know say it, I wouldn't necessarily think anything was "disgusting" or that the person was saying only women should care about their weddings.

I think that for the most part, it is the women who have been fantasizing about their weddings, sometimes for many years.  (Though there are some exceptions, of course, where either the bride has not, or the groom has.)  It doesn't necessarily mean she won't/doesn't want to compromise or shouldn't have to/be expected to, for budget reasons or because the groom wants something different or his family situation isn't what she was expecting or whatever, but that at the core of it, her fantasy is coming to life, changed to fit reality to whatever degree.

And about the honeymoon being the "groom's fantasy", well, there is the obvious, yes.  But also, I can imagine that during wedding preparations, a groom might feel a bit distant from his bride, even if they are both perfectly happy with his level of involvement in planning, whatever that level might be.  And the wedding itself (if it's like the weddings I've been a part of!) is a really fun day but really busy and hectic.  Lots of things going on at once, lots of details to keep track of...quite exhausting.

So, I can see that the honeymoon might turn out to be the "groom's fantasy" in that sense, where he gets his bride all to himself again for a while, and they can talk and relax and enjoy each other's company.  No having to go to work or school, no family or friends to entertain, just time alone with his new wife, catching back up with her, and doing what they want to do together, whether that be just lying on a beach and talking, or seeing a lot of sites in a hurry, or whatever.  (And when they start off down a sidewalk together, it doesn't make one bit of difference if they both start off on the left foot or not!)

But you know your dad and what he means, of course.  I'm just saying the impression I would have if my dad or someone else said that to or around me.   :)

I think that is a very charitable interpretation! 

(Although I still expect the "original" quote is meant to be a crude old joke about the bride wanting to plan a big event and wear a pretty dress, while the groom wants to finally get into the bride's pants  :-\ ).

Maybe so, but still there is nothing disgusting about a man looking forward to having sex with his wife.

Goosey

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Re: "He's not supposed to have an opinion!"
« Reply #38 on: March 31, 2014, 11:01:27 AM »
I think it's really insulting to men in general to portray them as only interested in the wedding for the following sex and stereotyping them as controlling/unreasonable should they WANT input on what's going on.

I think it's pretty exclusionary and narrow to say not only that they aren't but that they shouldn't be interested in the things relating to the wedding (whether color for the theme or china patterns).

The groom is not a prop at the end of the aisle. It's his wedding, too. Why shouldn't he have a wedding he can enjoy as well? If the bride can't collaberate with her future husband on colors, cake, etc, I think they need to work on that and compromise on their expectations.

The days are gone where women are expected to be the social organizers for the household and men keep their nose out of it and work to support the family. Many men are wanting more input and hands-on planning.

I've got to admit, the pp's story about china patterns kind of made me angry, but not on behalf of the poor bride who didn't like her husband's input on china patterns. I was offended on behalf of the groom, who was made out to be the bad guy for having an opinion on a marital asset he was going to have to live with as well.

ETA: Not directed at anyone! Just a general rant :-P
« Last Edit: March 31, 2014, 11:03:24 AM by Goosey »

Lynn2000

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Re: "He's not supposed to have an opinion!"
« Reply #39 on: March 31, 2014, 11:06:58 AM »
If it had been up to my mom, she would have had a much smaller wedding. However, my dad wanted a big to-do. This was 40+ years ago.

So my dad did have an opinion, for something bigger and fancier than my mom wanted, and that's what they ended up having. As someone else said, there's a difference between having an opinion, and helping get things done; and in my parents' case I don't know how his opinion translated into practical matters, just that it came into being.
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GlitterIsMyDrug

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Re: "He's not supposed to have an opinion!"
« Reply #40 on: March 31, 2014, 11:47:40 AM »
I really hate the idea that the groom gets no say or isn't supposed to want a say. Every groom I've known so far has had some opinion on something in the wedding. Every single thing? Maybe not. But then, I know not every bride really cares about every single thing. My best friend and her husband for instance. She cared about the music, the flowers, the tuxes and our dresses. He cared about the food, the invitations, the cake, and the reception decorations. He also cared a little about our dresses (the tuxes didn't matter to him at all, they all looked the same, I told him he looked like James Bond just so he'd go to the tux store), he came with us and gave his input on what he did/didn't want for us. Anytime he'd come along people would joke about him getting "dragged" along. The only place he got dragged was shoe shopping because it was done between other things. Shoes he did not care about. His, ours, the groomsmen, didn't give a hoot if we all wore flip flops. He cared about his wedding because it was his wedding.

I do like to joke that for us, only the bride's opinion matters. Of course that's only because we have two brides and no groom. And we tend to divvy up tasks and research based on who cares about what. Partner has taken over the wedding site and invitations thus far, she cares more then I do she had a background in graphic design, I just give my input on writing. I've got the photographers and caters so far, I very much care about food and know what I like for photos. She knows she likes food and that there should probably be pictures. Things like cake and venue, we're handling together because we both care. I assume straight weddings would work the same way.

There's picture I've seen on Pinterest, it's apparently an engagement announcement. The girl has all these wedding magazines spread out all over and the guy looks completely bored so he's throwing money in the air and she's smiling and catching it. I really hate that picture. I hate it almost as much as the "Game Over" t-shirts with the bride and groom. Because duh, men hate weddings! And commitment! And marriage!! Well if they hate it so much why do they all keep getting married?

GlitterIsMyDrug

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Re: "He's not supposed to have an opinion!"
« Reply #41 on: March 31, 2014, 12:12:31 PM »

He also fully expected to go wedding-dress shopping with her. She finally made him ask the women in his office what they thought about that idea.

Ha! I love this. I'd love to have been a fly on the wall at their reactions, too.

I've actually heard of some grooms going shopping with the bride for the dress. Or at least giving input on the dress. I think the old "Don't see the bride until the day of the wedding" superstition is falling by the wayside.

We've each seen each other in our dresses. It'd be weird to me to not get Partner's input. I get her input on most of my outfits. She's honest, caring, and will tell me when I look like a four year old on a sugar high who just went through mommy's closet. Of course on the day I'm going to be a zillion pictures I want her to tell me if I look like a weirdo or not in the dress I'm wearing. We are each adding small details that are a secret until day of, but overall, we've seen the dresses.

catwhiskers

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Re: "He's not supposed to have an opinion!"
« Reply #42 on: March 31, 2014, 01:39:42 PM »
My other half designed a dress and asked me if I would consider wearing it when we get married. Luckily he has very good taste and knows what suits me. I'm going to find someone to make it, but we haven't set a date yet so there is no rush.

I would prefer to elope, he would like immediate family and closest friends to be there and I'll bow to his wishes on that one. (Although I am trying to get him to understand that his "immediate family" doesn't include his sister's inlaws as well.  ;))

violinp

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Re: "He's not supposed to have an opinion!"
« Reply #43 on: March 31, 2014, 01:52:07 PM »
My dad has said to Cabbage and me many times: "A wedding is a bride's fantasy. The honeymoon is the groom's fantasy." Aside from the disgusting implications inherent in that, it always irritated me that my dad, who is generally an open - minded man, acted like only women should care about how the wedding goes. After all, the marriage is not one - sided, but two people uniting to make a life together. It also cracks me up, since Dad's the sentimental one and Mom's the practical one, but I digress...

You know your dad better than I do, obviously, and would know what he really does mean, but if I just heard some random person I didn't know say it, I wouldn't necessarily think anything was "disgusting" or that the person was saying only women should care about their weddings.

I think that for the most part, it is the women who have been fantasizing about their weddings, sometimes for many years.  (Though there are some exceptions, of course, where either the bride has not, or the groom has.)  It doesn't necessarily mean she won't/doesn't want to compromise or shouldn't have to/be expected to, for budget reasons or because the groom wants something different or his family situation isn't what she was expecting or whatever, but that at the core of it, her fantasy is coming to life, changed to fit reality to whatever degree.

And about the honeymoon being the "groom's fantasy", well, there is the obvious, yes.  But also, I can imagine that during wedding preparations, a groom might feel a bit distant from his bride, even if they are both perfectly happy with his level of involvement in planning, whatever that level might be.  And the wedding itself (if it's like the weddings I've been a part of!) is a really fun day but really busy and hectic.  Lots of things going on at once, lots of details to keep track of...quite exhausting.

So, I can see that the honeymoon might turn out to be the "groom's fantasy" in that sense, where he gets his bride all to himself again for a while, and they can talk and relax and enjoy each other's company.  No having to go to work or school, no family or friends to entertain, just time alone with his new wife, catching back up with her, and doing what they want to do together, whether that be just lying on a beach and talking, or seeing a lot of sites in a hurry, or whatever.  (And when they start off down a sidewalk together, it doesn't make one bit of difference if they both start off on the left foot or not!)

But you know your dad and what he means, of course.  I'm just saying the impression I would have if my dad or someone else said that to or around me.   :)

I think that is a very charitable interpretation! 

(Although I still expect the "original" quote is meant to be a crude old joke about the bride wanting to plan a big event and wear a pretty dress, while the groom wants to finally get into the bride's pants  :-\ ).

Maybe so, but still there is nothing disgusting about a man looking forward to having sex with his wife.

It's disgusting to imply that's all men think about, though. That's why I called it disgusting originally.
"It takes a great deal of courage to stand up to your enemies, but even more to stand up to your friends" - Harry Potter


LtPowers

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Re: "He's not supposed to have an opinion!"
« Reply #44 on: March 31, 2014, 03:00:40 PM »
There are certain decisions that I can sympathize w/ the idea that the groom should butt out.

Wedding colors--oh, of course, intellectually I can see that he has as much right to choose as the bride, but it would be really frustrating to suddenly have to negotiate through that.

My friend went to register for china and discovered that her husband had strong opinions and insisted on being included in the decision. OK, fine, but then it turned out that he wanted something very different from what she'd had her heart set on. They ended up with something she didn't really love. And when they moved to a smaller space, they put it in storage bcs she didn't like it enough to find room for it in their place.
    I was really sad on her behalf.

Her groom was a little competitive in lots of things--her mom made bookmarks that said "Susie and Sam," and he got all "why isn't my name first on half of them?"  My friend finally pointed out that she'd be Mrs. Sam Smith for the rest of her life, and they'd be Mr. and Mrs. Sam Smith, and he'd be first on the tax returns; he could let her have the stupid bookmarks.

He also fully expected to go wedding-dress shopping with her. She finally made him ask the women in his office what they thought about that idea.

And why would he care what the women in his office thought about the idea?  What about the men in his office?  What about the groom?  What about the bride?

And if you find "negotiating" over wedding colors to be frustrating, how in the world could you ever manage marriage?


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