Author Topic: "He's not supposed to have an opinion!"  (Read 9385 times)

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Ceallach

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Re: "He's not supposed to have an opinion!"
« Reply #45 on: March 31, 2014, 06:44:38 PM »
My dad has said to Cabbage and me many times: "A wedding is a bride's fantasy. The honeymoon is the groom's fantasy." Aside from the disgusting implications inherent in that, it always irritated me that my dad, who is generally an open - minded man, acted like only women should care about how the wedding goes. After all, the marriage is not one - sided, but two people uniting to make a life together. It also cracks me up, since Dad's the sentimental one and Mom's the practical one, but I digress...

You know your dad better than I do, obviously, and would know what he really does mean, but if I just heard some random person I didn't know say it, I wouldn't necessarily think anything was "disgusting" or that the person was saying only women should care about their weddings.

I think that for the most part, it is the women who have been fantasizing about their weddings, sometimes for many years.  (Though there are some exceptions, of course, where either the bride has not, or the groom has.)  It doesn't necessarily mean she won't/doesn't want to compromise or shouldn't have to/be expected to, for budget reasons or because the groom wants something different or his family situation isn't what she was expecting or whatever, but that at the core of it, her fantasy is coming to life, changed to fit reality to whatever degree.

And about the honeymoon being the "groom's fantasy", well, there is the obvious, yes.  But also, I can imagine that during wedding preparations, a groom might feel a bit distant from his bride, even if they are both perfectly happy with his level of involvement in planning, whatever that level might be.  And the wedding itself (if it's like the weddings I've been a part of!) is a really fun day but really busy and hectic.  Lots of things going on at once, lots of details to keep track of...quite exhausting.

So, I can see that the honeymoon might turn out to be the "groom's fantasy" in that sense, where he gets his bride all to himself again for a while, and they can talk and relax and enjoy each other's company.  No having to go to work or school, no family or friends to entertain, just time alone with his new wife, catching back up with her, and doing what they want to do together, whether that be just lying on a beach and talking, or seeing a lot of sites in a hurry, or whatever.  (And when they start off down a sidewalk together, it doesn't make one bit of difference if they both start off on the left foot or not!)

But you know your dad and what he means, of course.  I'm just saying the impression I would have if my dad or someone else said that to or around me.   :)

I think that is a very charitable interpretation! 

(Although I still expect the "original" quote is meant to be a crude old joke about the bride wanting to plan a big event and wear a pretty dress, while the groom wants to finally get into the bride's pants  :-\ ).

Maybe so, but still there is nothing disgusting about a man looking forward to having sex with his wife.

Of course not, and I don't think anybody has said that.    What's disgusting is the extreme and outdated gender stereotypes that the *only* thing that men care about is sex, and no women cares about sex.   There's also the implication that it's the only reason they each get married - women are interested in superficial material pretty things, men are animalistic and only want sex.  As opposed to two adults wanting to join their lives in partnership physically, emotionally, materially etc.   It's simplistic generalisation based on old gender stereotypes.

Let's not go overboard, this was clearly a joke and it doesn't offend me personally, it is pretty clear what the basis is though!
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lakey

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Re: "He's not supposed to have an opinion!"
« Reply #46 on: March 31, 2014, 09:03:12 PM »
I think that these ridiculous reality tv shows are making unacceptable, narcissistic behavior seem normal.

Of course, you'd hope that people would be bright enough to figure out that these reality shows are catering to the need for people to watch train wrecks, and most people are bright enough. But I guess there are a few who take Bridzilla shows to mean that acting like a self-centered child is okay.

I feel sorry for the groom in this situation.  I hope he thinks about what his life is going to be like, being married to a childish person.

Texas Mom

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Re: "He's not supposed to have an opinion!"
« Reply #47 on: April 01, 2014, 01:16:42 AM »
Some guys don't care.........I would be a little surprised if a guy or girl for that matter who never showed a concern for food or decorating or matching was suddenly debating whether the bridesmaids sashes looked good with the flowers.  I expect people to be who they , so my response would be tempered a little with that basic personality info.

I dunno, I know plenty of men who weren't into those things normally but then became interested once they were engaged (or a bought a house). Is "surprised they're interested" code for "they must be g_y" ?

DD & her friend have been talking about marriage (a couple of years down the road, when she finishes her master's).  He's a coach & wants to get married in the town where they'll be living so his team can come.

DD found a venue online & he went to look at it.  The people there assumed he was g*y.  He set them straight on the matter, called DD & said "They thought I was g*y; I'm done." 


I agree with lakey that the various television shows are feeding the monster - in most of them, the groom is shown as ornamentation and a person to be abused rather than a partner in the marriage.

TeamBhakta

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Re: "He's not supposed to have an opinion!"
« Reply #48 on: April 01, 2014, 03:20:00 PM »
I think that these ridiculous reality tv shows are making unacceptable, narcissistic behavior seem normal.

Of course, you'd hope that people would be bright enough to figure out that these reality shows are catering to the need for people to watch train wrecks, and most people are bright enough. But I guess there are a few who take Bridzilla shows to mean that acting like a self-centered child is okay.

I feel sorry for the groom in this situation.  I hope he thinks about what his life is going to be like, being married to a childish person.

Some of the biggest nutters from Bridezillas tend to show up on tv boards / wedding boards & proclaim "I am not mean / crazy / controlling. That was an act for tv. You don't know me! How dare you assume I really act like that off camera!" Like the crazy actress / dog tutu seller bride (the one whose band stole her cake because she wouldn't pay them)  ::)

Steve

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Re: "He's not supposed to have an opinion!"
« Reply #49 on: April 01, 2014, 04:30:03 PM »
My DH and I went to shop for our clothes at the same time. I wanted a white sari, he needed a suit. I went with my mother and MIL, he went with my brother and a friend.

At some point during fitting and looking at stuff my mother alerted me to a heated discussing between DH and MIL on the phone. He had found his suit. It happened to be white and MIL did not approve. The wedding was about me wearing white and he should just get something nice and blue so he would fade into the background and he could wear it to all the funerals in our future as well.

(DH owns a killer white suit  8) )



LadyL

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Re: "He's not supposed to have an opinion!"
« Reply #50 on: April 01, 2014, 05:51:04 PM »
Some guys don't care.........I would be a little surprised if a guy or girl for that matter who never showed a concern for food or decorating or matching was suddenly debating whether the bridesmaids sashes looked good with the flowers.  I expect people to be who they , so my response would be tempered a little with that basic personality info.

I dunno, I know plenty of men who weren't into those things normally but then became interested once they were engaged (or a bought a house). Is "surprised they're interested" code for "they must be g_y" ?

DD & her friend have been talking about marriage (a couple of years down the road, when she finishes her master's).  He's a coach & wants to get married in the town where they'll be living so his team can come.

DD found a venue online & he went to look at it.  The people there assumed he was g*y.  He set them straight on the matter, called DD & said "They thought I was g*y; I'm done." 


In my venue search I dealt with some staff who had attitudes about weddings that turned me off (referring to me as "the bride to be" rather than by my name, for example). That said one bad vendor experience is no reason to give up on planning entirely! And I am wondering if he was more upset that the staff made an assumption about his sexuality (rude on their part) or if it's being mistaken for gay that bothered him (in that case who cares, he knows he's marrying a woman!).

Katana_Geldar

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Re: "He's not supposed to have an opinion!"
« Reply #51 on: April 01, 2014, 06:16:43 PM »
I'm thinking back to planning our wedding and I remember DH telling me he wasn't that interested in me coming up with the details for things but he wanted to be involved in the final decisions. He did contribute his opinions, but a lot of the leg work I did with things like the flowers and the cake. We had agreed on budget beforehand and colours, so I wasn't flying blind. What helped was getting samples, the flower samples and the cake samples.

My dress was me and my Mum, he didn't see that until the day and that was how we wanted it. He did see my shoes, but that's because I wore them in and we needed them to get our heights right for his shoes.

He organised wedding night accommodation, the car (though I found out that the hotel could do it, he he handled negotiations), the centrepieces was all him which I hadn't a clue about though I suggested giving them to our mums and grandmothers after the reception. Honeymoon was both of us, though I suggested cruise and wanted to go to particular island, it also helpled determine the date as it was the Saturday before the cruise which was on the Wednesday.

But right from the beginning it was our wedding, and despite the mishaps and the things that went wrong, we are still very satisfied with our day.

kherbert05

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Re: "He's not supposed to have an opinion!"
« Reply #52 on: April 01, 2014, 06:44:26 PM »
My other half designed a dress and asked me if I would consider wearing it when we get married. Luckily he has very good taste and knows what suits me. I'm going to find someone to make it, but we haven't set a date yet so there is no rush.

I would prefer to elope, he would like immediate family and closest friends to be there and I'll bow to his wishes on that one. (Although I am trying to get him to understand that his "immediate family" doesn't include his sister's inlaws as well.  ;) )
Are you marrying one of my cousins? Some relatives Inlaws are closer to me than actual blood relations.  In HS my car broke down. CC was with me. We couldn't get hold of my parents, her parents, or her older sister and BIL. We considered calling the cousins that lived across the street from my house, but honestly if they did help they would have done the whole maryter routine.  Instead we called CC's BIL's Mom and Dad.  They came helped us get the car towed and fixed. We've known them since we can remember.
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TeamBhakta

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Re: "He's not supposed to have an opinion!"
« Reply #53 on: April 01, 2014, 07:54:32 PM »
I'm reminded of this couple, who walked out of store when a manager said "Oh, he doesn't matter. Grooms don't matter at all! Everyone knows it's the bride's day!"
http://offbeatbride.com/2013/08/registry-ignoring-my-groom#.UztQbFeoW6Y

catwhiskers

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Re: "He's not supposed to have an opinion!"
« Reply #54 on: April 02, 2014, 01:54:27 PM »
My other half designed a dress and asked me if I would consider wearing it when we get married. Luckily he has very good taste and knows what suits me. I'm going to find someone to make it, but we haven't set a date yet so there is no rush.

I would prefer to elope, he would like immediate family and closest friends to be there and I'll bow to his wishes on that one. (Although I am trying to get him to understand that his "immediate family" doesn't include his sister's inlaws as well.  ;) )
Are you marrying one of my cousins? Some relatives Inlaws are closer to me than actual blood relations.  In HS my car broke down. CC was with me. We couldn't get hold of my parents, her parents, or her older sister and BIL. We considered calling the cousins that lived across the street from my house, but honestly if they did help they would have done the whole maryter routine.  Instead we called CC's BIL's Mom and Dad.  They came helped us get the car towed and fixed. We've known them since we can remember.

Oops, I should have said his sister's future inlaws, she and her OH are not married yet. If they honestly were that close, I'd have no problems with the idea of them attending. However, he's just worried his parents wouldn't be happy if we didn't invite them as they (his parents) are doing this "we are all one big happy family" thing with his sister's inlaws-to-be. Yet at the same time, his parents have made it clear that they do not consider me part of the family and have repeatedly asked my OH if he's really sure he wants to be with me. (This is why I would prefer to elope, I'm honestly not comfortable about getting married in front of his parents when I know they will be sitting there wishing he wasn't marrying me. However, I can understand that he wants them to be there).

JeanFromBNA

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Re: "He's not supposed to have an opinion!"
« Reply #55 on: April 02, 2014, 02:50:52 PM »
He also fully expected to go wedding-dress shopping with her. She finally made him ask the women in his office what they thought about that idea.

I'm pretty sure that DH thinks that dress shopping of any kind is one of the 9 circles of hell.

I think that the amount of involvement from the groom/partner depends upon the couple.   It's like running a household, as EllenS said upthread.  In some homes, everybody pitches in with everything; in others it's a division of labor: You mow the lawn and clean the cat boxes, I do the laundry and handle the finances.  Often the division is based upon personal investment. Maybe I care more about whiter whites and making sure the mortgage is paid on time.  Also, I'm allergic to grass. 

It's unfair and, IMO, unhealthy for one party to decide that the other is to have no opinions or input on any matter in a marriage, from wedding colors to how much to spend on a house.

stitchygreyanonymouse

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Re: "He's not supposed to have an opinion!"
« Reply #56 on: April 02, 2014, 08:22:55 PM »
There are certain decisions that I can sympathize w/ the idea that the groom should butt out.

Wedding colors--oh, of course, intellectually I can see that he has as much right to choose as the bride, but it would be really frustrating to suddenly have to negotiate through that.

My friend went to register for china and discovered that her husband had strong opinions and insisted on being included in the decision. OK, fine, but then it turned out that he wanted something very different from what she'd had her heart set on. They ended up with something she didn't really love. And when they moved to a smaller space, they put it in storage bcs she didn't like it enough to find room for it in their place.
    I was really sad on her behalf.

Her groom was a little competitive in lots of things--her mom made bookmarks that said "Susie and Sam," and he got all "why isn't my name first on half of them?"  My friend finally pointed out that she'd be Mrs. Sam Smith for the rest of her life, and they'd be Mr. and Mrs. Sam Smith, and he'd be first on the tax returns; he could let her have the stupid bookmarks.

He also fully expected to go wedding-dress shopping with her. She finally made him ask the women in his office what they thought about that idea.

Wedding colors — he chose.

China — we're not registering for any, but he chose the dishes we bought when we moved into the house we bought together. Were they my absolute favorite? No. Were they his #1 choice? Also no. We compromised on something that both of us liked, that happened to be very different from either of our first choices.

Wedding dresses — he went with me to all the stores and saw every dress. The one I chose happened to be both of our favorites, and I wouldn't have even tried it on had he not pointed it out.

So far in planning this whole thing, the only time he has annoyed me with his opinion is when he is ambivalent but tries to be funny by saying "but it's your wedding, my opinion doesn’t matter on this!"

I wouldn't be marrying him if he had no opinion on our wedding. He wouldn't be marrying me if I wanted to make all of the decisions. The couple (or bride) in the OP isn't me, and maybe that works for their relationship, but frankly, I feel bad for the both of them and immensely frustrated by the media who seem to think that couple is normal and we are not.

EllenS

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Re: "He's not supposed to have an opinion!"
« Reply #57 on: April 02, 2014, 10:11:14 PM »
I still don't get, in the story about the unloved registry china, what they have been eating off of for all these years? Paper plates? If you can't agree on something you'd both be happy with, what law says you have to register for china at all?  Or why does it have to be fancy expensive china if you can both be happy with something off the more modest range for "everyday"? Why propose your friends and family spend a whole bunch of money on something neither of you really likes?

I think the problem is not what brides want, or what grooms want, but people allowing rigid ideas that have no purpose to make them unhappy or cause conflict.

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TeamBhakta

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Re: "He's not supposed to have an opinion!"
« Reply #58 on: April 02, 2014, 10:45:27 PM »
I was wondering that, too, about the plates. Also, I find it offputting that the bride brought up the dress situation with co-workers so she could win the argument, instead of working it out with her fiance. And really, nobody except the couple remembers the wedding colors afterwards, except when the color combinations are super distinctive or someone got a major spill on their outfit ("Uncle Bob had spilled red wine on my zebra print bridesmaid dress. I looked a lion's dinner! Good thing the table cloths were all black instead of white!") There's no need for half of a couple to feel like "I must have the perfect shade of pink and pink at all costs."

Piratelvr1121

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Re: "He's not supposed to have an opinion!"
« Reply #59 on: April 03, 2014, 07:46:35 AM »
I was wondering that, too, about the plates. Also, I find it offputting that the bride brought up the dress situation with co-workers so she could win the argument, instead of working it out with her fiance. And really, nobody except the couple remembers the wedding colors afterwards, except when the color combinations are super distinctive or someone got a major spill on their outfit ("Uncle Bob had spilled red wine on my zebra print bridesmaid dress. I looked a lion's dinner! Good thing the table cloths were all black instead of white!") There's no need for half of a couple to feel like "I must have the perfect shade of pink and pink at all costs."

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