Author Topic: "He's not supposed to have an opinion!"  (Read 8112 times)

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GlitterIsMyDrug

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Re: "He's not supposed to have an opinion!"
« Reply #60 on: April 03, 2014, 11:46:09 AM »
I was wondering that, too, about the plates. Also, I find it offputting that the bride brought up the dress situation with co-workers so she could win the argument, instead of working it out with her fiance. And really, nobody except the couple remembers the wedding colors afterwards, except when the color combinations are super distinctive or someone got a major spill on their outfit ("Uncle Bob had spilled red wine on my zebra print bridesmaid dress. I looked a lion's dinner! Good thing the table cloths were all black instead of white!") There's no need for half of a couple to feel like "I must have the perfect shade of pink and pink at all costs."

My favorite color is purple. Partner's favorite color is red. Our wedding colors are purple and red. Wanna know why? We (the couple getting married) would forget what the dang colors were if we didn't pick our favorite ones! Though the colors are actually called something other then purple and red, but that's Partner's department. Not mine. When it comes to colors I'm very basic. Ivory and Cream look exactly the same to me.

Actually, funny story, when best friend got married I went with her to pick out her bouquet and we were talking with the florist about what she wanted. He asks if she wants ribbon and some pearls on the steams and we nod and say yeah that'll look nice. He asks what color ribbon, we say white, he asks "So pearl, ivory, cream..." and we just stare at him. He pulled out the ribbons and we pointed. Think we picked ivory.

lady_disdain

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Re: "He's not supposed to have an opinion!"
« Reply #61 on: April 03, 2014, 12:36:20 PM »
I dunno, I know plenty of men who weren't into those things normally but then became interested once they were engaged (or a bought a house). Is "surprised they're interested" code for "they must be g_y" ?

DD & her friend have been talking about marriage (a couple of years down the road, when she finishes her master's).  He's a coach & wants to get married in the town where they'll be living so his team can come.

DD found a venue online & he went to look at it.  The people there assumed he was g*y.  He set them straight on the matter, called DD & said "They thought I was g*y; I'm done." 


In my venue search I dealt with some staff who had attitudes about weddings that turned me off (referring to me as "the bride to be" rather than by my name, for example). That said one bad vendor experience is no reason to give up on planning entirely! And I am wondering if he was more upset that the staff made an assumption about his sexuality (rude on their part) or if it's being mistaken for gay that bothered him (in that case who cares, he knows he's marrying a woman!).
[/quote]

I see it as a major sign that the venue does not the groom seriously, since the bride (and her mother) is the one making all the decisions and calling the shots. That is no different from a car salesman that speaks only to the man, not the little lady who is paying for the car, and a reason to look for another vendor.

VorFemme

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Re: "He's not supposed to have an opinion!"
« Reply #62 on: April 04, 2014, 04:28:26 PM »
Lynn2000 has a very good point.

and one of the places you get this message is the comments/critiques of weddings that have happened. The bride culturally gets the credit, and the blame.

It comes from the time when the wedding *was* the bride's, and hers alone. Her parents hosted the entire event. As hosts, they made the decisions.

The household was the bride's/wife's territory as well; she accumulated china, etc., sometimes well before her marriage. It was not a household possession, really.

Depending on when she was accumulating the household things - she might have started spinning & weaving her linens; making quilts, and even making clothing suitable for an infant before she was ten, with the earlier & less skilled "sample" garments being taken apart to be redone later and a strip of fabric (called a sampler, for some odd reason) with various "samples" of embroidery and sewing stitches made to refresh her memory of the stitch after she married & moved away.  Samples of embroidery alphabets to use in monogramming her linens and such would be included - which is why the "samplers" you see instructions on how to make in the embroidery section of the needlework aisle have alphabets & numerals featured.

Originally, there would have been a variety of simple shapes and a variety of stitches on what could be a LONG roll of narrow fabric & kept with the girl's own sewing supplies. 
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TeamBhakta

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Re: "He's not supposed to have an opinion!"
« Reply #63 on: April 04, 2014, 05:33:32 PM »
Quote
Depending on when she was accumulating the household things - she might have started spinning & weaving her linens; making quilts, and even making clothing suitable for an infant before she was ten

Anyone else remember the biography Oldest Living Confederate Widow Tells All ? 15 year old Lucy was given a children's story book before her arranged marriage to a middle aged man (yeah, I know  :-X) She basically thought "oh boy, a present for me!" Lucy didn't understand until later it meant "This is for the children you'll soon have."

http://www.amazon.com/Oldest-Living-Confederate-Widow-Tells/dp/0375726632

Piratelvr1121

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Re: "He's not supposed to have an opinion!"
« Reply #64 on: April 06, 2014, 11:21:21 PM »
I was wondering that, too, about the plates. Also, I find it offputting that the bride brought up the dress situation with co-workers so she could win the argument, instead of working it out with her fiance. And really, nobody except the couple remembers the wedding colors afterwards, except when the color combinations are super distinctive or someone got a major spill on their outfit ("Uncle Bob had spilled red wine on my zebra print bridesmaid dress. I looked a lion's dinner! Good thing the table cloths were all black instead of white!") There's no need for half of a couple to feel like "I must have the perfect shade of pink and pink at all costs."

My favorite color is purple. Partner's favorite color is red. Our wedding colors are purple and red. Wanna know why? We (the couple getting married) would forget what the dang colors were if we didn't pick our favorite ones! Though the colors are actually called something other then purple and red, but that's Partner's department. Not mine. When it comes to colors I'm very basic. Ivory and Cream look exactly the same to me.

Actually, funny story, when best friend got married I went with her to pick out her bouquet and we were talking with the florist about what she wanted. He asks if she wants ribbon and some pearls on the steams and we nod and say yeah that'll look nice. He asks what color ribbon, we say white, he asks "So pearl, ivory, cream..." and we just stare at him. He pulled out the ribbons and we pointed. Think we picked ivory.

I'm the same way, honestly.  I also need a color wheel sometimes to help me pick out coordinating colors.  I guess I'm just a very visual person too.  When I've gone to the craft store to pick out colors for a project (cross stitching) I have to hold up one skein to another to see if they match.  There've been times a pattern will say "DMC X and Y" where x and y are two different shades of the same color family and I hold them together and am having to really squint to tell the difference. 

And I'm the same way with flowers.  Someone at church asked me to provide flowers later this year for a certain part of the church and I'm sure I got a deer in the headlights look.  I love flowers, but my idea of a flower arrangement is to take a bunch of flowers, all the same type and stick them in a vase. I told her honestly I am not good at arranging flowers and she said "Oh it's okay, you can just get something from the florist section of the grocery store and stick it in a vase!"

Cool. :)
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Ceallach

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Re: "He's not supposed to have an opinion!"
« Reply #65 on: April 07, 2014, 12:46:34 AM »
I was thinking about this the other day, and realised that in reality I usually hear the opposite complaint!  Most of my friends are the types who want and expect all things to be equal in their relationships, and if anything would love for their DF to be more interested in the wedding planning.   I know I personally was really keen for him to be involved.  It's a huge job, I didn't want to do it alone!   (I didn't have to, but I still would have loved a little more proactive involvement, I had to tell him which things I wanted him to organise and pull for his input on others).    In couples I know where the guy does happen to have a really strong opinion on something, the bride has normally been excited and embraced it because most of the details the groom doesn't seem to care about particularly - or perhaps assumes that the bride's wishes are more important so steps back.  So they love it when he shows that much enthusiasm for something wedding related!
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LifeOnPluto

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Re: "He's not supposed to have an opinion!"
« Reply #66 on: April 07, 2014, 11:10:55 PM »

It's unfair and, IMO, unhealthy for one party to decide that the other is to have no opinions or input on any matter in a marriage, from wedding colors to how much to spend on a house.

This is what it boils down to, for me.

I find the attitude of the bride in the OP to be pretty dismissive and disturbing. I just hope the groom knows what he's getting himself into!

NestHolder

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Re: "He's not supposed to have an opinion!"
« Reply #67 on: April 09, 2014, 04:06:00 PM »
I certainly think—going back to the OP—that the groom in question should get more involved, if only to find out exactly what he's getting himself into while there is still time to flee.  And if I were getting married nowadays, I'd want my husband-to-be to take an interest and some of the responsibility for getting things done.  It's *our* wedding, we should have what we decide we want—and it has to be 'we' and not 'I'.  If he decides he doesn't care what the bridesmaids wear, and I decide I don't care what kind of champagne is served, we're still covered. 

I don't know whether you have Don't Tell The Bride in the USA, but I have nursed a mild addiction to that show for ages.  It goes to prove that (a) most grooms really have no clue what is involved in organising a wedding until they have to do it, (b) most grooms care about *completely* different things to most brides, and © it is surprising how little it matters.  If the wedding is pretty, the dress—yes, HE chooses the dress—is not a total failure, and the reception keeps everyone reasonably happy and well-fed, the day is a success, and it doesn't matter in the least if the vision the bride had had since she was seven years old does not figure in her actual wedding.  (If it does matter, she shouldn't have agreed to do the programme.)

In occasional cases, the groom has been very with-it indeed and 'played a blinder'.  The ones which fell rather flat were the ones where the groom had been inefficient and disorganised—forgot to arrange the transport properly, for instance.  Except, of course, for the notorious wedding in Vegas…

But it does go to show that men can perfectly well get involved with wedding prep.  And should, if they're marrying partners rather than accessories.I certainly think—going back to the OP—that the groom in question should get more involved, if only to find out exactly what he's getting himself into while there is still time to flee.  And if I were getting married nowadays, I'd want my husband-to-be to take an interest and some of the responsibility for getting things done.  It's *our* wedding, we should have what we decide we want—and it has to be 'we' and not 'I'.  If he decides he doesn't care what the bridesmaids wear, and I decide I don't care what kind of champagne is served, we're still covered. 

I don't know whether you have Don't Tell The Bride in the USA, but I have nursed a mild addiction to that show for ages.  It goes to prove that (a) most grooms really have no clue what is involved in organising a wedding until they have to do it, (b) most grooms care about *completely* different things to most brides, and c) it is surprising how little it matters.  If the wedding is pretty, the dress—yes, HE chooses the dress—is not a total failure, the wedding goes ahead, and the reception keeps everyone reasonably happy and well-fed, then the day is a success and it doesn't matter in the least if the vision the bride had had since she was seven years old does not figure in her actual wedding.  (If it does matter, she shouldn't have agreed to do the programme.)

In occasional cases, the groom has been very with-it indeed and 'played a blinder'.  The ones which fell rather flat were the ones where the groom had been inefficient and disorganised—forgot to arrange the transport properly, for instance.  Except, of course, for the notorious wedding in Vegas…

But it does go to show that men can perfectly well get involved with wedding prep.  And brides should expect them to, if they're marrying partners rather than accessories.

Kiwichick

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Re: "He's not supposed to have an opinion!"
« Reply #68 on: April 15, 2014, 04:58:38 PM »
My dad has said to Cabbage and me many times: "A wedding is a bride's fantasy. The honeymoon is the groom's fantasy." Aside from the disgusting implications inherent in that, it always irritated me that my dad, who is generally an open - minded man, acted like only women should care about how the wedding goes. After all, the marriage is not one - sided, but two people uniting to make a life together. It also cracks me up, since Dad's the sentimental one and Mom's the practical one, but I digress...

You know your dad better than I do, obviously, and would know what he really does mean, but if I just heard some random person I didn't know say it, I wouldn't necessarily think anything was "disgusting" or that the person was saying only women should care about their weddings.

I think that for the most part, it is the women who have been fantasizing about their weddings, sometimes for many years.  (Though there are some exceptions, of course, where either the bride has not, or the groom has.)  It doesn't necessarily mean she won't/doesn't want to compromise or shouldn't have to/be expected to, for budget reasons or because the groom wants something different or his family situation isn't what she was expecting or whatever, but that at the core of it, her fantasy is coming to life, changed to fit reality to whatever degree.

And about the honeymoon being the "groom's fantasy", well, there is the obvious, yes.  But also, I can imagine that during wedding preparations, a groom might feel a bit distant from his bride, even if they are both perfectly happy with his level of involvement in planning, whatever that level might be.  And the wedding itself (if it's like the weddings I've been a part of!) is a really fun day but really busy and hectic.  Lots of things going on at once, lots of details to keep track of...quite exhausting.

So, I can see that the honeymoon might turn out to be the "groom's fantasy" in that sense, where he gets his bride all to himself again for a while, and they can talk and relax and enjoy each other's company.  No having to go to work or school, no family or friends to entertain, just time alone with his new wife, catching back up with her, and doing what they want to do together, whether that be just lying on a beach and talking, or seeing a lot of sites in a hurry, or whatever.  (And when they start off down a sidewalk together, it doesn't make one bit of difference if they both start off on the left foot or not!)

But you know your dad and what he means, of course.  I'm just saying the impression I would have if my dad or someone else said that to or around me.   :)

I think that is a very charitable interpretation! 

(Although I still expect the "original" quote is meant to be a crude old joke about the bride wanting to plan a big event and wear a pretty dress, while the groom wants to finally get into the bride's pants  :-\ ).

Maybe so, but still there is nothing disgusting about a man looking forward to having sex with his wife.

Of course not, and I don't think anybody has said that.    What's disgusting is the extreme and outdated gender stereotypes that the *only* thing that men care about is sex, and no women cares about sex.   There's also the implication that it's the only reason they each get married - women are interested in superficial material pretty things, men are animalistic and only want sex.  As opposed to two adults wanting to join their lives in partnership physically, emotionally, materially etc.   It's simplistic generalisation based on old gender stereotypes.

Let's not go overboard, this was clearly a joke and it doesn't offend me personally, it is pretty clear what the basis is though!

Sorry I've just seen this - ViolinP said it was disgusting in the quote we both quoted, that's what I was responding to, not necessarily your post.

Ceallach

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Re: "He's not supposed to have an opinion!"
« Reply #69 on: April 15, 2014, 08:01:07 PM »
My dad has said to Cabbage and me many times: "A wedding is a bride's fantasy. The honeymoon is the groom's fantasy." Aside from the disgusting implications inherent in that, it always irritated me that my dad, who is generally an open - minded man, acted like only women should care about how the wedding goes. After all, the marriage is not one - sided, but two people uniting to make a life together. It also cracks me up, since Dad's the sentimental one and Mom's the practical one, but I digress...

You know your dad better than I do, obviously, and would know what he really does mean, but if I just heard some random person I didn't know say it, I wouldn't necessarily think anything was "disgusting" or that the person was saying only women should care about their weddings.

I think that for the most part, it is the women who have been fantasizing about their weddings, sometimes for many years.  (Though there are some exceptions, of course, where either the bride has not, or the groom has.)  It doesn't necessarily mean she won't/doesn't want to compromise or shouldn't have to/be expected to, for budget reasons or because the groom wants something different or his family situation isn't what she was expecting or whatever, but that at the core of it, her fantasy is coming to life, changed to fit reality to whatever degree.

And about the honeymoon being the "groom's fantasy", well, there is the obvious, yes.  But also, I can imagine that during wedding preparations, a groom might feel a bit distant from his bride, even if they are both perfectly happy with his level of involvement in planning, whatever that level might be.  And the wedding itself (if it's like the weddings I've been a part of!) is a really fun day but really busy and hectic.  Lots of things going on at once, lots of details to keep track of...quite exhausting.

So, I can see that the honeymoon might turn out to be the "groom's fantasy" in that sense, where he gets his bride all to himself again for a while, and they can talk and relax and enjoy each other's company.  No having to go to work or school, no family or friends to entertain, just time alone with his new wife, catching back up with her, and doing what they want to do together, whether that be just lying on a beach and talking, or seeing a lot of sites in a hurry, or whatever.  (And when they start off down a sidewalk together, it doesn't make one bit of difference if they both start off on the left foot or not!)

But you know your dad and what he means, of course.  I'm just saying the impression I would have if my dad or someone else said that to or around me.   :)

I think that is a very charitable interpretation! 

(Although I still expect the "original" quote is meant to be a crude old joke about the bride wanting to plan a big event and wear a pretty dress, while the groom wants to finally get into the bride's pants  :-\ ).

Maybe so, but still there is nothing disgusting about a man looking forward to having sex with his wife.

Of course not, and I don't think anybody has said that.    What's disgusting is the extreme and outdated gender stereotypes that the *only* thing that men care about is sex, and no women cares about sex.   There's also the implication that it's the only reason they each get married - women are interested in superficial material pretty things, men are animalistic and only want sex.  As opposed to two adults wanting to join their lives in partnership physically, emotionally, materially etc.   It's simplistic generalisation based on old gender stereotypes.

Let's not go overboard, this was clearly a joke and it doesn't offend me personally, it is pretty clear what the basis is though!

Sorry I've just seen this - ViolinP said it was disgusting in the quote we both quoted, that's what I was responding to, not necessarily your post.

Yes that's right, violinp said the implications were disgusting and I quoted that because I agree wholeheartedly.  The implications are incredibly sexist and insulting to both men and women, which I think is disgusting.

I didn't think violinp was saying that the implication of sex itself or looking forward to sex were disgusting, although I guess I could see how you could interpret it that way - in which case I definitely disagree with that sentiment.   
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VorFemme

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Re: "He's not supposed to have an opinion!"
« Reply #70 on: April 24, 2014, 11:28:22 AM »
Quote
Depending on when she was accumulating the household things - she might have started spinning & weaving her linens; making quilts, and even making clothing suitable for an infant before she was ten

Anyone else remember the biography Oldest Living Confederate Widow Tells All ? 15 year old Lucy was given a children's story book before her arranged marriage to a middle aged man (yeah, I know  :-X) She basically thought "oh boy, a present for me!" Lucy didn't understand until later it meant "This is for the children you'll soon have."

http://www.amazon.com/Oldest-Living-Confederate-Widow-Tells/dp/0375726632

I was under the impression that was a work of fiction presented as a biography...but I do remember that she was pitchforked into that marriage by her parents without a clue of what was really going to be involved.

THEN after the disaster of a honeymoon....her husband had his black housekeeper & cook teach her how to run the house before "retiring" her (and the black housekeeper was also his mistress, the mother of his older children, and the real love of his life - but NOT socially acceptable for that time & place).  So he married a fifteen year old...

Not to mention his mentally ill and horribly burned mother...he came back from being a drummer boy (or bugler?) to a disaster and had to cope with it in his teens...but he set up his wife with a similar disaster in her teens.  Then developed an alcohol problem and dementia in his later years, leaving her with still more disasters.

But she persevered through it all...not a weak little woman, even if she had learned more than a few lessons the hard way. 

++++++++++++++++

But - men do have ideas about weddings - just not all of them get asked about their preferences.  And those who do get asked may not have thought out their preferences beyond something simple like "out door reception" so the bride takes what HE envisioned as a simple picnic kind of thing and turns it into a much more formal event...or vice versa!
« Last Edit: April 24, 2014, 11:35:23 AM by VorFemme »
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ladycrim

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Re: "He's not supposed to have an opinion!"
« Reply #71 on: June 16, 2014, 01:40:10 PM »
I agree.  The hazelnut syrup was definitely the way to go.

.... Oh, we're talking about the other thing.

Good grief.  Why do brides do this?  I want my fiance to have an opinion and input on everything except my gown (because that's a surprise, dang it!).  It's his day, too!  The wedding should be something the HC are planning together.  If the bride keeps up this behavior, she might find herself without a groom.

Celany

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Re: "He's not supposed to have an opinion!"
« Reply #72 on: June 16, 2014, 03:22:01 PM »
If a friend of mine said this, I would seriously rethink our friendship, because I don't particularly want to be friends with any human being who thinks that gender is a reason for someone who is part of a life event to not have a say in how that life event is planned.

How's she going to be about babies? Those are "a traditional woman thing" too. Does she get all the say in how the baby is cared for?

I hope this guy knows exactly what it's getting into & is OK with it.
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Re: "He's not supposed to have an opinion!"
« Reply #73 on: June 16, 2014, 07:32:51 PM »
I pick my own dress. Period.

Other than that, I'd like some input. However, if a decision has to be made by X date and he doesn't weigh in, I will consider what's been decided as final. If he comes back two weeks later to try to change it, then unless there are serious extenuating circumstances, it's done.
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Elfmama

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Re: "He's not supposed to have an opinion!"
« Reply #74 on: June 17, 2014, 02:59:55 PM »
Quote
I think that for the most part, it is the women who have been fantasizing about their weddings, sometimes for many years.

I wore a white dress. My sister was in the bridal party. Those were the only parts of my teenage fantasy wedding that actually carried over to my actual wedding, when I was 29.

I was going to be married at Christmastime -- December 28th, to be exact, the anniversary of my baptism -- with my bridesmaids in red velvet. We were going to write our own vows and sing them to each other. I was going to wear a hoop skirt.

By the time I actually got engaged, those fantasies had fallen by the wayside. I realized that Christmastime weddings were highly impractical. My groom was tone-deaf, so the singing vows thing was out, even if I still wanted to do them. And the early '70s hoop-skirt revival for wedding gowns had died, along with my taste for them. Also, a lot of my teen wedding fantasies involved a particular guy; when my obsession with teen crush/fantasy future groom fizzled, so did the wedding scenario.
I did get married at Christmas time -- December 29th, as it happens.  One of the expenses went away then.  I didn't have to decorate the church.  ;) And I remember those hoopskirt dresses!  That was the fashion when I got married, and all the ready-made dresses were either the hoopskirts, or made even the slenderest bride look pregnant, or both! There was no color option other than snow-white.  Snow-white is not a good color on me.  I finally had a local seamstress make a princess-line gown out of ivory satin. 
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