Author Topic: Wedding reenactment-- really hope I convinced my friend not to.  (Read 12578 times)

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turnip

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Re: Wedding reenactment-- really hope I convinced my friend not to.
« Reply #120 on: April 30, 2014, 02:30:55 PM »
Obviously very IMHO - but I simply don't think that a 'wedding' has to be the ceremony that initiates the 'marriage'.  You want to get married and have a wedding 6 months later?  Fine by me!

We don't insist birthday parties occur on the birthday.  We don't insist house warming parties occur on the first day you move in.  We don't insist that anniversary parties occur on the actual anniversary of the event.   

And to further the 'birthday' example ( which I like, so bear with me ) - if I'm invited to a birthday party on Nov 28th, I'm not going to feel 'lied to' if I discover the birthday actually occurred on Nov 23rd.  I'm not going to feel like the party girl 'pretended' to be ( RealAge minus 1 ) for 5 days. 

It just seems like such an insignificant snag to get caught up on.   People I love got married!  They want to have a party!  Sounds like fun to me!

Goosey

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Re: Wedding reenactment-- really hope I convinced my friend not to.
« Reply #121 on: April 30, 2014, 02:31:36 PM »
Because for them it's not pretending?

I mean, I kind of get where people are coming from. Kind of. I can see being surprised. But irate/angry?

If I really care about a couple, I think it would be more important to me how/what THEY feel/believe about their wedding than make it all about me and what I would prefer.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2014, 02:35:30 PM by Goosey »

Ms_Cellany

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Re: Wedding reenactment-- really hope I convinced my friend not to.
« Reply #122 on: April 30, 2014, 02:47:03 PM »
Obviously very IMHO - but I simply don't think that a 'wedding' has to be the ceremony that initiates the 'marriage'. 

My mileage very much varies. To me, a wedding is a ceremony in which two people get married. That's pretty much the dictionary definition of a wedding.
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TurtleDove

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Re: Wedding reenactment-- really hope I convinced my friend not to.
« Reply #123 on: April 30, 2014, 02:51:25 PM »
It just seems like such an insignificant snag to get caught up on.   People I love got married!  They want to have a party!  Sounds like fun to me!

I would absolutely attend the celebration!  But I would find it really strange that the HC would pretend they were not already married for x number of months.

Goosey

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Re: Wedding reenactment-- really hope I convinced my friend not to.
« Reply #124 on: April 30, 2014, 02:53:33 PM »
There seems to be an assistance on calling it "pretending", "Lying", "deceptive" etc. If a couple believes in their hearts and in their beliefs that their marriage does not begin before their wedding, I would not consider that a lie. That's a sincerely held belief and I will respect that.

TurtleDove

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Re: Wedding reenactment-- really hope I convinced my friend not to.
« Reply #125 on: April 30, 2014, 02:59:16 PM »
There seems to be an assistance on calling it "pretending", "Lying", "deceptive" etc. If a couple believes in their hearts and in their beliefs that their marriage does not begin before their wedding, I would not consider that a lie. That's a sincerely held belief and I will respect that.

Hmmm.  I can respect that a person holds that belief, but I don't agree with it.  For example, as I said upthread, I think a lot of people fought hard for the legal right to marry.  To me, if that legal right - and the legal marriage - does not mean anything to the couple, that strikes me as incredibly odd.  Again, I would celebrate the marriage, but if a couple was legally married January 1 and then said they were "getting married" for the first time June 1, I would wonder "what have they believed themselves to be for the past six months?"

menley

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Re: Wedding reenactment-- really hope I convinced my friend not to.
« Reply #126 on: April 30, 2014, 03:01:09 PM »
Because for them it's not pretending?

I mean, I kind of get where people are coming from. Kind of. I can see being surprised. But irate/angry?

If I really care about a couple, I think it would be more important to me how/what THEY feel/believe about their wedding than make it all about me and what I would prefer.

This is where I land.

Goosey

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Re: Wedding reenactment-- really hope I convinced my friend not to.
« Reply #127 on: April 30, 2014, 03:06:41 PM »
There seems to be an assistance on calling it "pretending", "Lying", "deceptive" etc. If a couple believes in their hearts and in their beliefs that their marriage does not begin before their wedding, I would not consider that a lie. That's a sincerely held belief and I will respect that.

Hmmm.  I can respect that a person holds that belief, but I don't agree with it.  For example, as I said upthread, I think a lot of people fought hard for the legal right to marry.  To me, if that legal right - and the legal marriage - does not mean anything to the couple, that strikes me as incredibly odd.  Again, I would celebrate the marriage, but if a couple was legally married January 1 and then said they were "getting married" for the first time June 1, I would wonder "what have they believed themselves to be for the past six months?"

Of course being able to legally marry is important. No one is denying that. People are just saying many believe it is completely separate from their social/religious/whatever marriage.

I don't really respect organized religion. But I'm not going to say people getting married religiously are putting on a farce because I find their beliefs or their church offensive. You can disagree with someone and respect their choices at the same time. And you can definitely disagree with someone and not take that disagreement in philosophy as personnally as many seem to - especially when it has very little to do with you.

As to your bolded - I assume they believe they are the same as they had been before the signed the paperwork. It's not that much of a mystery.

turnip

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Re: Wedding reenactment-- really hope I convinced my friend not to.
« Reply #128 on: April 30, 2014, 03:16:30 PM »
It just seems like such an insignificant snag to get caught up on.   People I love got married!  They want to have a party!  Sounds like fun to me!

I would absolutely attend the celebration!  But I would find it really strange that the HC would pretend they were not already married for x number of months.

I don't think they are pretending.   They don't think they are pretending.  Why is it up to you to declare that they are pretending?

TurtleDove

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Re: Wedding reenactment-- really hope I convinced my friend not to.
« Reply #129 on: April 30, 2014, 03:18:32 PM »
There seems to be an assistance on calling it "pretending", "Lying", "deceptive" etc. If a couple believes in their hearts and in their beliefs that their marriage does not begin before their wedding, I would not consider that a lie. That's a sincerely held belief and I will respect that.

Hmmm.  I can respect that a person holds that belief, but I don't agree with it.  For example, as I said upthread, I think a lot of people fought hard for the legal right to marry.  To me, if that legal right - and the legal marriage - does not mean anything to the couple, that strikes me as incredibly odd.  Again, I would celebrate the marriage, but if a couple was legally married January 1 and then said they were "getting married" for the first time June 1, I would wonder "what have they believed themselves to be for the past six months?"

Of course being able to legally marry is important. No one is denying that. People are just saying many believe it is completely separate from their social/religious/whatever marriage.

I don't really respect organized religion. But I'm not going to say people getting married religiously are putting on a farce because I find their beliefs or their church offensive. You can disagree with someone and respect their choices at the same time. And you can definitely disagree with someone and not take that disagreement in philosophy as personnally as many seem to - especially when it has very little to do with you.

As to your bolded - I assume they believe they are the same as they had been before the signed the paperwork. It's not that much of a mystery.

Right, and that is what I find so odd - if the legal marriage means nothing in terms of their relationship, why do it separately from the "wedding" they actually value then? Why do it at all?  Again, no one has to agree with me, and if I cared about people I would celebrate the marriage anyway, but I am pointing out why it seems odd, at least to me, to pretend not to be married when you are.

TurtleDove

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Re: Wedding reenactment-- really hope I convinced my friend not to.
« Reply #130 on: April 30, 2014, 03:20:39 PM »
It just seems like such an insignificant snag to get caught up on.   People I love got married!  They want to have a party!  Sounds like fun to me!

I would absolutely attend the celebration!  But I would find it really strange that the HC would pretend they were not already married for x number of months.

I don't think they are pretending.   They don't think they are pretending.  Why is it up to you to declare that they are pretending?

I guess I don't follow - it isn't up to me!  They are in fact legally married.  Also, why be legally married if it means nothing?  I think this is the sticking point for a lot of people in understanding this, and certainly is my issue with it.  And, my typical disclaimer, if I cared about the couple of course I would celebrate with them anyway :)

Goosey

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Re: Wedding reenactment-- really hope I convinced my friend not to.
« Reply #131 on: April 30, 2014, 03:23:18 PM »
Because sometimes legal benefits are required before they are able to get socially married. I've seen it/heard about a thousand scenarios where this has happened. They may be legally joined out of necessity, but their "marriage" does not begin until the wedding. I don't get the confusion.

If you want an example, many times people get married before their SO deploys and don't have a wedding until they get back from deployment. But that is only one example.

Many people say "too bad, so sad!" but I consider that very unfeeling and narrow.

I wish you would stop saying "pretending", too. They believe they are not married. They are not pretending not be married.

TurtleDove

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Re: Wedding reenactment-- really hope I convinced my friend not to.
« Reply #132 on: April 30, 2014, 03:31:14 PM »
Because sometimes legal benefits are required before they are able to get socially married. I've seen it/heard about a thousand scenarios where this has happened. They may be legally joined out of necessity, but their "marriage" does not begin until the wedding. I don't get the confusion.

If you want an example, many times people get married before their SO deploys and don't have a wedding until they get back from deployment. But that is only one example.

Many people say "too bad, so sad!" but I consider that very unfeeling and narrow.

I wish you would stop saying "pretending", too. They believe they are not married. They are not pretending not be married.

To me, when a person is legally married, it would be strange indeed to believe they are not legally married.  And again, I would celebrate the couple's marriage regardless, but I strongly believe that no matter what the reason, if you are legally married, you are married.  And if it means nothing, why get legally married.  Obviously some people disagree, and I have a very difficult time seeing where they are coming from, especially because I would not begrudge anyone a solemnization/reaffirmation of a earlier marriage and/or a blowout reception months later. I just take issue with the idea that people who apparently believe it is important to get legally married, because they did so, yet do not believe there is any importance to that marriage, can hold themselves out as not really married.

Goosey

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Re: Wedding reenactment-- really hope I convinced my friend not to.
« Reply #133 on: April 30, 2014, 03:40:36 PM »
Yeah, I get that. You're confused. You don't understand it. I don't think anything we're going to say is going to spark enlightenment. It's about compartmentalization between legal and religious/social.

But by insisting that they're pretending because you find it "strange", you are projecting negative behaviors on people that they are not doing because that's what you would be doing if you did the same thing due to YOUR beliefs.

Many people (I won't say all because I don't pretend to know ever couples' beliefs and circumstances) are not pretending at all. It's what they believe. You are actually being very insulting to them by insisting on calling it pretending. So, on the one hand, you're saying "I respect people believe differently than me" and in the next breath, you're saying, "But if you do believe differently, you're a big fat fibber." And no, not you're saying that word for word and that's not a direct quote, but your word choices can speak VOLUMES. Telling people they're pretending is either insulting or condescending. Most likely both.

And no, I am not defending this because it's something I did. I got married in a court house and was darn happy to do so! But I also feel we should be open to celebrating others' beliefs and happines despite what we may believe.

HannahGrace

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Re: Wedding reenactment-- really hope I convinced my friend not to.
« Reply #134 on: April 30, 2014, 03:42:39 PM »
Because sometimes legal benefits are required before they are able to get socially married. I've seen it/heard about a thousand scenarios where this has happened. They may be legally joined out of necessity, but their "marriage" does not begin until the wedding. I don't get the confusion.

If you want an example, many times people get married before their SO deploys and don't have a wedding until they get back from deployment. But that is only one example.

Many people say "too bad, so sad!" but I consider that very unfeeling and narrow.

I wish you would stop saying "pretending", too. They believe they are not married. They are not pretending not be married.

To me, when a person is legally married, it would be strange indeed to believe they are not legally married.  And again, I would celebrate the couple's marriage regardless, but I strongly believe that no matter what the reason, if you are legally married, you are married.  And if it means nothing, why get legally married.  Obviously some people disagree, and I have a very difficult time seeing where they are coming from, especially because I would not begrudge anyone a solemnization/reaffirmation of a earlier marriage and/or a blowout reception months later. I just take issue with the idea that people who apparently believe it is important to get legally married, because they did so, yet do not believe there is any importance to that marriage, can hold themselves out as not really married.

Exactly. If the legal marriage is important to get the benefits, then great!  But you're married.  Have a celebration later, that's fine, but you're married, you chose to get legally married for a reason, why act like that didn't happen?  It makes no sense to me.