Letter out of the blue

[kingsrings]

In today's world, it seems to be of the popular opinion that we allow bygones to be bygones and just accept any olive branch offered to us and forgive people for their trespasses against us. That may be true to some extent, but not to all situations. If someone in your life is just going to be so toxic, then you're better off without them. It's nice to forgive people and ultimately that would be the best solution, but on the other hand, you can't allow people to treat you badly and become a rug for them to walk all over. Can't you tell that I'm going through a situation just like this right now?? Heh.

But anyway, that is what you have to consider and weigh when deciding if this is a friendship worth salvaging. Is she truly better, or is she just going to be toxic to you once again?

[Alida]

But anyway, that is what you have to consider and weigh when deciding if this is a friendship worth salvaging. Is she truly better, or is she just going to be toxic to you once again?

She's been out of my life for the better part of two years now, so when I say this was out of the blue?  It's REALLY out of the blue.  There's nothing to salvage, at least not from what I can see.

[goblue2539]

The fact is, you (general) can forgive someone without ever discussing it with them or letting them know about it.  And then you can move on with your life and you never have to worry about them again. 

FWIW, I hate the phrase "Forgive and forget" with an absolute passion.  Just because we're willing to let go of our anger doesn't mean we should forget what made us angry in the first place. 

[T'Mar of Vulcan]

FWIW, I hate the phrase "Forgive and forget" with an absolute passion.  Just because we're willing to let go of our anger doesn't mean we should forget what made us angry in the first place. 

Me too. To me, the implication that one should just forget stuff means that once it's forgotten, the person is free to do it again. I don't THINK so.

I heard a quote on the TV series Beauty and the Beast (with Ron Perlman; remember that one?) in which one of the bad guys said, "I don't forget, and only God forgives." I tend to have that attitude sometimes and it's very un-Christian, but sometimes the things people do to us shouldn't be forgotten, if only so that we can make sure they don't do it a second time!

[goblue2539]

There are a couple of occasions where the only reason I was able to forgive someone was because I was holding myself back.  For all intents and purposes, I've forgiven my father.  But, I still don't speak to him. 

[kingsrings]

FWIW, I hate the phrase "Forgive and forget" with an absolute passion.  Just because we're willing to let go of our anger doesn't mean we should forget what made us angry in the first place. 

Me too. To me, the implication that one should just forget stuff means that once it's forgotten, the person is free to do it again. I don't THINK so.

I heard a quote on the TV series Beauty and the Beast (with Ron Perlman; remember that one?) in which one of the bad guys said, "I don't forget, and only God forgives." I tend to have that attitude sometimes and it's very un-Christian, but sometimes the things people do to us shouldn't be forgotten, if only so that we can make sure they don't do it a second time!

As a Christian myself, it certainly doesn't say anywhere in the Bible that we are to let people treat us any way they would be. That is my answer when fellow Christians try to do that 'forgive and forget' preaching to me. Like I said in my earlier post, it's all circumstantial whether that is the case or not with some people. And in some people's cases, the only way they're going to learn their lesson that it's not okay to treat people badly if if they lose relationships as a result. So you're not doing yourself or them a favor by continuing to allow them to treat you badly.

[Tabris]

Jesus said to be innocent as doves and wise as serpents. I think that means it's perfectly fine to forgive and remember. Forgive and protect yourself.

The decision to renew a relationship is *always* separated from the decision to forgive. If a random stranger attacked and stabbed someone, the victim might well forgive him, but there would be no reason to have a close personal relationship with the attacker afterward. Nor would it mean the victim should try to get the person out of prison.

It's the same thing with ex-friends. We can quietly forgive them in our hearts without exposing ourselves to their toxicity again.

(No, I've never had to make that decision. But they are two separate decisions.)

[Slartibartfast]

OT, but one of the best things I've ever done, religion-wise (and I'm not saying which religion), was to really and truly forgive a college "friend" who suddenly lashed out at me.*  I had "forgiven" people before by convincing myself they were really just starved for attention, or had a bad life at home, or didn't know any better, but this was the first time I ever really meant it and didn't try to tack on "I forgive you . . . because you're just too pathetic and pitiful to stay mad at."  I astounded a few people who knew the whole situation, but the wonderful thing was, the whole incident didn't stress me out any more, and he started actually being nice to me again.  Not just pretend-nice.  I think I need to find someone else to get mad at so I can do that again sometime :-)



* He was the head of the committee to review our dorm's charter, and I volunteered to be on it too.  We had exactly one meeting, where it was clear he expected everyone to approve the charter as it was currently, with no changes.  I had brought a page or two of things I felt needed to be changed, and essentially ended up leading the meeting to revise wording.  That next week he sent me some scathing emails about how he always thought I was bossy** anyway, he never liked me, and he wished I would just leave him alone.  Unfortunately, he was one of my sister's best friends at the time (she was also in our dorm) and I knew we'd be living in the same building for the next two years.

**  Ever notice how men/boys are never "bossy?"  Only women or girls.  Once my roommate pointed this out to me, the word didn't bother me anymore.  In a male it would be "assertive."

[sammycat]

FWIW, I hate the phrase "Forgive and forget" with an absolute passion.  Just because we're willing to let go of our anger doesn't mean we should forget what made us angry in the first place.

Add to me to the list of people who hate this phrase too

In today's world, it seems to be of the popular opinion that we allow bygones to be bygones and just accept any olive branch offered to us and forgive people for their trespasses against us. That may be true to some extent, but not to all situations. If someone in your life is just going to be so toxic, then you're better off without them. It's nice to forgive people and ultimately that would be the best solution, but on the other hand, you can't allow people to treat you badly and become a rug for them to walk all over.

Very true.

I have mentioned a few times before on this board about a toxic friend I had to cut out my life about a year ago.  The beginning of the end (for me) of our friendship was an incdent that occurred about 6 months prior to that.  There was an incident where she was so in the wrong that I really must have needed my head read to continue on with the friendship.  It took her a week before she finally admitted but not apologised that she was wrong.  To her though, it probably was an apology, but it's not what any normal person would consider one, and to be honest even if she had offered a proper apology I still would have ceased our friendship a few months later anyway. 

I would ignore this ex-friend's letter as she is trying the classic dump the guilt on you trick.  It's like when a married person has an affair and then confesses to their spouse in the guise of being "honest".  Now the spouse has to deal with the pain and the fallout from the situation that wasn't of their choosing and doing.  This ex-friend probably feels that now she has explained herself any resistance on your part of not welcoming her back means that you are the one in the wrong when you most certainly are not.  Burn the letter and get her out of your life forever. 

[ZipTheWonder]

If she isn't apologetic and you're not interested in revving up the relationship, I think you need to put the letter to the shredder.

As to "forgive and forget" (sermon follows....)

In the Christian world where forgiveness is a very big deal on both sides of the equation, God is able to forget our sins (Hebrews 10:17)  It does not serve Him any purpose to remember our sin if we have squared ourselves with Him and with those we have wronged.  They are no longer counted against us, He has no need to remember them.  For us mere humans, remembering offenses against us serves a protective benefit against a further injury -- this a protection God does not need.  We are to forgive again and again and again, but we are not required to forget. 

[Tabris]

Good points, Zip. I would add that distancing yourself from the person would remove the need to forgive again and again and again if the victim were beginning to find it hard to forgive continual offenses.

[Hawkwatcher]

I've spoken with someone who knows us both, but is apart from the situation - his recommendation was to be rid of the letter and leave it as it is.  Apparently, she's still very volatile still and it might be a bad idea to do anything at all.  "None" it is.

I think you are correct to follow your friend's advice since he knows her and may have seen what happens when she has written these letters in the past.  Perhaps she has contacted other people and used these letters as an excuse to renew her relationships with these people but still continues to throw her temper tantrums.

[JeanFromBNA]

If you or your friend have any reason to believe that her volatility might lead to violence, then do not respond to the letter at all; it would be taken as encouragement, regardless of the statement.  However, if it's simply a bad attitude, then Tabris' suggestion for a letter sounds adequate.

[Bob Ducca]

If she isn't apologetic and you're not interested in revving up the relationship, I think you need to put the letter to the shredder.

As to "forgive and forget" (sermon follows....)

In the Christian world where forgiveness is a very big deal on both sides of the equation, God is able to forget our sins (Hebrews 10:17)  It does not serve Him any purpose to remember our sin if we have squared ourselves with Him and with those we have wronged.  They are no longer counted against us, He has no need to remember them.  For us mere humans, remembering offenses against us serves a protective benefit against a further injury -- this a protection God does not need.  We are to forgive again and again and again, but we are not required to forget. 

Thanks so much for that.  I have been struggling with forgiving Useless McGee (at work) for his latest insensitivity, and came to the conclusion that I simply needed to stop communicating with him unless absolutely necessary, for my own sanity.  I think I can "forgive" him- get past the anger and bitterness I feel, and let it go- but I never intend to forget.  You make me feel much better!

And now, back to the thread...cut this woman off.  People who demand that others supply "closure" for them really bug me.

[ZipTheWonder]

I really don't think it would be wise for you to forget, and apparently neither does God, or He would have given you the ability to forget whatever you have forgiven.