Author Topic: How strong was DD's "no" for prom? update 102  (Read 20167 times)

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Jones

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Re: How strong was DD's "no" for prom?
« Reply #45 on: April 20, 2014, 10:02:24 PM »
If the wording was similar to what was in the OP, and if the boy told his mother that DD wasn't going to prom with him, there was no miscommunication. It was simply a "I don't like that answer so it's time for the parents to get involved and make you come with me."

Nemesis

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Re: How strong was DD's "no" for prom?
« Reply #46 on: April 20, 2014, 10:09:16 PM »
If it were me, I would NOT let my daughter speak to Jay again. He sounds like someone who would emotionally manipulate her into feeling bad and eventually saying yes.

I don't like the idea of my girls mixing with a boy who can't take "no" for an answer.

Your daughter did nothing wrong. He did not ask her out so much as to TELL her to let him know if she is going. This is not asking a girl out. This is SO not asking a girl out.

Jay's mother has some nerve.

This is not a good time to tell a girl to second-guess herself, or that she is somehow obligated to be "nice" even if it means talking to a boy that makes her uncomfortable. If anything, the only thing I would say to her is to make her "No" more decisively and confidently. As for Jay - no, a girl is not obligated to go out with you just because you bought the tickets. He needs to learn to ask directly next time "I would like to go to the prom with you, would you be my date?" This allows the girl to say yes or no to being a date.

If she MUST speak to him, could you be there when she does? All she needs to say is "I will not go to the prom with you. I hope you understand".

JenJay

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Re: How strong was DD's "no" for prom?
« Reply #47 on: April 20, 2014, 10:09:49 PM »
If the wording was similar to what was in the OP, and if the boy told his mother that DD wasn't going to prom with him, there was no miscommunication. It was simply a "I don't like that answer so it's time for the parents to get involved and make you come with me."

I'm not stating that I think DD miscommunicated, I think her answer on Monday was very clear and should have been the end of it. OP's family, including DD, think that her Wednesday answer wasn't clear and may have contributed to a miscommunication. My reply was based on that. If DD thinks she accidentally left Jay with the impression that she might go to prom with him with her "okay?", and she feels badly about that, I think it's okay to apologize for that. She should make very clear, though, that she is not apologizing for backing out, costing him money, standing him up, upsetting him, etc. He did all that on his own.

And yeah, it sounds like Jay absolutely lied to his mom, either because he was embarrassed or upset, or because he didn't want to hear the truth and told her his idealized version of what happened. If I was OP and she contacted me again I'd shut that down immediately. The whole issue with the mom calling was completely out of line.

EllenS

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Re: How strong was DD's "no" for prom?
« Reply #48 on: April 20, 2014, 10:22:21 PM »
The best thing I have found when I feel like I'm being played in some way but don't want the awkwardness of just saying that, I will voice confusion.  "I'm confused....why did you buy 2 tickets?  Did you find a date?"  I've used this with manipulators in my life with success. Confusion is more effective and productive than getting angry, even if what they are doing is infuriating.  They will never admit to manipulating you, so it forces them to back down to save face.

Absolutely.  Naming what is actually happening is always useful, especially with people who are making their own reality.
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TootsNYC

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Re: How strong was DD's "no" for prom?
« Reply #49 on: April 20, 2014, 10:27:15 PM »
Saying "OK" on the second just-in-case ask ('cause that's what it was) is most definitely not saying "No."

I agree with his mom (who shouldn't have called you) that she needs to be clear, explicit, and probably apologetic.

"Jay, I'm sorry I wasn't clearer before. I am not going to go to the prom with you or anyone else. I'm busy that night. Good luck finding another date."

Yeah, reading that interaction made me think she'd opened the door to the possibility that she'd be going with him.  I think she should approach Jay in person and apologize for the misunderstanding the other day, but as she told him when he asked originally, she is going to be busy that night.


I think that was pretty manipulative of Jay, to say "let me know if you change your mind," and then act as though her "Okay?" was a yes.

I agree you were out of line ot ask that mother what is it she thinks should happen.

Your daughter should say to Jay, "Listen, I told you the first time you asked that I have definite plans for the prom and am not going. Then you said I should let you know if I changed my mind. I didn't let you know, because I didn't change my mind. I have plans, and a commitment to my babysitting family. I'm not going to prom. And I told you that the first time you asked me.
   "In fact, Jay, you cannot blame me for the fact that you bought tickets and a tux and everything else. I told you I wasn't going. That's on you."

"Oh, and you know what else, Jay? Tell your mother not to call my mother. This is between us, and I'm not going to prom with you. I told you that the first time you asked me. Excuse me, I have to get to class."


I agree w/ Nemesis, to a large degree, and w/ miranova.

I'd want my girl, however, to feel that she could say, "Jay, I told you already, I'm not going to prom. I have a babysitting commitment. I don't understand how you could think that means I'm going to change my mind, and I don't understand why in the world you'd buy tickets with ME in mind. I'm not going to prom. And now I'm not ever going anywhere with you."

JenJay

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Re: How strong was DD's "no" for prom?
« Reply #50 on: April 20, 2014, 10:30:26 PM »
The best thing I have found when I feel like I'm being played in some way but don't want the awkwardness of just saying that, I will voice confusion.  "I'm confused....why did you buy 2 tickets?  Did you find a date?"  I've used this with manipulators in my life with success. Confusion is more effective and productive than getting angry, even if what they are doing is infuriating.  They will never admit to manipulating you, so it forces them to back down to save face.

Absolutely.  Naming what is actually happening is always useful, especially with people who are making their own reality.

I love that! It doesn't assume anything about the other person's intentions, nor does it put you on the spot to agree or decline whatever it is they want. It just takes the awkwardness and puts it right back in the lap of the person who created it.

wheeitsme

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Re: How strong was DD's "no" for prom?
« Reply #51 on: April 20, 2014, 10:40:16 PM »
He asks DD if he could go to prom with her.  She said she wasn't going to prom. 

Later he tells her that he's already bought the tickets.  And could DD tell him if she could go to prom.  (1) She already told him she wasn't going.  (2) She answers "Okay?".  Not "Okay I'll go to prom with you". I'm thinking "Okay, I'll tell you if I end up going", or even "Okay, whatever", or "Okay, I'm going to walk away now".

...and then he rents a tux, makes dinner reservations and calls to ask her dress color?  Uhhh...not okay.  Which your DD made clear.  Again.

And to top it all off, he's told his mother a totally fictitious scenario and gets her to call you to guilt your DD into going with him.

If this is how he interacts with girls, I should hope your DD has set him back.

Perhaps it would be appropriate for your DH to make that clear to him.

RegionMom

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Re: How strong was DD's "no" for prom?
« Reply #52 on: April 20, 2014, 10:58:56 PM »
OP here, and I must say, this thread has given me a lot to think about!

I had not considered that he bought the tickets after she told him no.  Wow. 

And that link about Mythcommuniction- super Wow!!  DD is quiet, but strong.  That article was powerful.  I will not show it to her now, but will take her out for coffee soon and chat, about dating and how to say no for any situation, and about clear communication.

My offering restitution was when the mom was rambling how her son was so hurt and his future may be marred by this.  So I was trying to get a feel of what she wanted- a refund?  a date?  me to play spy on my DD and find out what happened?  She wants DD to talk to her son.  It took her a while, but that is what she wanted. 

So, per her request,  >:D, DD will have a very brief and direct conversation/statement for Jay tomorrow, much like the ideas posted by others, something like-- "I told you I had a babysitting commitment, so why would you buy two tickets?  I am not going to prom.  Sorry if you misunderstood my NO means anything else but no, but I am going to class now.  I do not expect to have this conversation again.  Good bye."

Thanks, guys! 

My little girl is growing up.  Sometimes it does take a village!


Fear is temporary...Regret is forever.

JenJay

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Re: How strong was DD's "no" for prom?
« Reply #53 on: April 20, 2014, 11:03:19 PM »
That's an excellent statement! I hope this is the end of it, but I have a feeling you'll have to straighten his mom out before this is over.  :-\

LeveeWoman

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Re: How strong was DD's "no" for prom?
« Reply #54 on: April 20, 2014, 11:06:59 PM »
OP here, and I must say, this thread has given me a lot to think about!

I had not considered that he bought the tickets after she told him no.  Wow. 

And that link about Mythcommuniction- super Wow!!  DD is quiet, but strong.  That article was powerful.  I will not show it to her now, but will take her out for coffee soon and chat, about dating and how to say no for any situation, and about clear communication.

My offering restitution was when the mom was rambling how her son was so hurt and his future may be marred by this. So I was trying to get a feel of what she wanted- a refund?  a date?  me to play spy on my DD and find out what happened?  She wants DD to talk to her son.  It took her a while, but that is what she wanted. 

So, per her request,  >:D, DD will have a very brief and direct conversation/statement for Jay tomorrow, much like the ideas posted by others, something like-- "I told you I had a babysitting commitment, so why would you buy two tickets?  I am not going to prom.  Sorry if you misunderstood my NO means anything else but no, but I am going to class now.  I do not expect to have this conversation again.  Good bye."

Thanks, guys! 

My little girl is growing up.  Sometimes it does take a village!

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

PastryGoddess

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Re: How strong was DD's "no" for prom?
« Reply #55 on: April 20, 2014, 11:08:36 PM »
That's an excellent statement! I hope this is the end of it, but I have a feeling you'll have to straighten his mom out before this is over.  :-\

If only to make it clear that she will not be party to her daughters manipulation by Jay.

JenJay

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Re: How strong was DD's "no" for prom?
« Reply #56 on: April 20, 2014, 11:39:19 PM »
That's an excellent statement! I hope this is the end of it, but I have a feeling you'll have to straighten his mom out before this is over.  :-\

If only to make it clear that she will not be party to her daughters manipulation by Jay.

Oh definitely! I meant "straighten out" in the "Your family WILL leave my family alone!" sort of way.

MariaE

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Re: How strong was DD's "no" for prom?
« Reply #57 on: April 20, 2014, 11:41:27 PM »
Sounds like a good plan! Please let us know how it goes?
 
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AnnaJane

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Re: How strong was DD's "no" for prom?
« Reply #58 on: April 20, 2014, 11:49:58 PM »
She thought her son's future would be marred by a girl not going to prom with him?  :o

Deetee

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Re: How strong was DD's "no" for prom?
« Reply #59 on: April 21, 2014, 12:05:20 AM »
Glad to read the update. She said "no" very clearly (if not in those exact words). He didn't want to hear it so

1) Bought tickets after she said she wasn't going.
2) Texted her after she expressed zero enthusiasm or encoyragement .
3) When he couldn't ignore the "no" text, tried to use social pressure to get her to comply.

You are doing your daughter a favor by backing up her "no" and maybe him a favor by pointing out that this does not work. And maybe many other girls a favor.

If someone wants to go with you on a date they let you know. Like the article said agreements are clear and forceful and refusals are generally soft.