Author Topic: How strong was DD's "no" for prom? update 102  (Read 18178 times)

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Alli8098

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Re: How strong was DD's "no" for prom?
« Reply #90 on: April 21, 2014, 03:35:02 PM »
I don't think the issue here is that the daughter has different dating customs that may not be the social norm.  The issue is that she said no and Jay is pushing the issue.  No matter what dating customs a teenager goes by no means no.

Yvaine

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Re: How strong was DD's "no" for prom?
« Reply #91 on: April 21, 2014, 03:36:21 PM »
My votes go with the consensus!

1) DD was not in the wrong, could maybe have been a little clearer during the second interaction but in no way shape or form is she remotely responsible for Jay's misguided hopes.

2) Jay sounds exactly like the kind of teenage boy one would deem a "creeper". This doesn't mean he's necessarily a bad person, but that he is a (still young!) boy who is perhaps so wrapped up in the idea of "getting a girl" that he'll steamroll over "no"s in attempts to get what he wants. Many boys outgrow the creeper stage, some do not. All those hormones raging about, things can get dicey. (This applies to girls as well, obviously. In high school my friends and I decided the female equivalent of a creeper is a clinger.)

3) Total speculation, but my guess is that Jay told his mom that DD said yes and he bought the tickets, and then when he realized she really wasn't going to go with him, he concocted the story to save face and Mama Bear went ragin'. I doubt he knew about the call, but maybe he did.

I can't wait for an update!

I agree. He's in the wrong now, he's doing something that's inappropriate now by trying to rules-lawyer her "okay???" into a yes, and that need not mean he's an evil predator forever or anything. And I totally agree with your guess as to why his mom is getting involved; he's trying to save face about the waste of money and probably told her a rather altered version of the truth.

pierrotlunaire0

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Re: How strong was DD's "no" for prom?
« Reply #92 on: April 21, 2014, 03:43:07 PM »
I would lay odds that Jay's mom does call.  It bothered me that Region Mom obviously had no idea what she was talking about, but Jay's mom would not let it go, but kept going on and on about the damage DD had caused by changing her answer to yes.

Jay may simply be very immature and is making poor decisions, but his mother's behavior is the one sliding into the inappropriate area.  If the kids in question were both 11, then ok, but not now.
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YoginiSaysYes

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Re: How strong was DD's "no" for prom?
« Reply #93 on: April 21, 2014, 03:45:40 PM »
That's a very good point. In this whole situation I'd say Mama Jay is probably even more wrong than Jay. If she had not called, what would have happened? Would Jay have asked her again? Probably not.

artk2002

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Re: How strong was DD's "no" for prom?
« Reply #94 on: April 21, 2014, 05:14:30 PM »
Jay may simply be very immature and is making poor decisions, but his mother's behavior is the one sliding into the inappropriate area.  If the kids in question were both 11, then ok, but not now.

She is inappropriate, but he went there first. After the OP's DD said "no," that should have been the end of it. The follow-up with "I've bought tickets, let me know if you change your mind" is inappropriate and manipulative. It's a blatant attempt to guilt the DD into going; after all, he's spent the money, so she owes it to him to go. Sadly, that's the way a lot of people think.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bow lines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. -Mark Twain

gellchom

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Re: How strong was DD's "no" for prom?
« Reply #95 on: April 21, 2014, 05:46:29 PM »
I forgot to include in my post that, yes, Jay should've taken no for an answer.  He did push too much -- although we can't be sure that he only bought the tickets to pressure her.  I can easily imagine him having bought them in hopes of finding some date, and asking her again either before trying others or after striking out elsewhere.  Anyway, trying to get someone to change their mind is pushy, but it's not the worst thing I've ever heard of a kid doing.  "No" means "no," but it doesn't mean "And you can't ever ask again."  It's possible, especially given her chivalrous views on dating, that he guessed incorrectly that she believes a lady should be coaxed and not say yes right away.  Who knows.  Kids are ... kids.

But even though I suppose it is fair to call his pushiness in trying to get her to change her mind "manipulative," I don't think that makes him A Manipulator, much less a "creeper," just as the girl's responses might be called unclear or at most misleading or wishy-washy, but it would be unfair to accuse her of leading him on or to call her a user or a tease.

There simply isn't any need to label anyone or make anyone the bad guy.  These are just two high school kids.  Their social and communication skills are still developing.  As we see.

I wonder if this is yet another example of people who are uncomfortable with simply saying no needing to make the asker bad, wrong, or rude (or worse) in some way in order to feel comfortable with someone's saying "no."
« Last Edit: April 21, 2014, 05:48:55 PM by gellchom »

LadyL

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Re: How strong was DD's "no" for prom?
« Reply #96 on: April 21, 2014, 06:17:06 PM »

But even though I suppose it is fair to call his pushiness in trying to get her to change her mind "manipulative," I don't think that makes him A Manipulator, much less a "creeper," just as the girl's responses might be called unclear or at most misleading or wishy-washy, but it would be unfair to accuse her of leading him on or to call her a user or a tease.

There simply isn't any need to label anyone or make anyone the bad guy.  These are just two high school kids.  Their social and communication skills are still developing.  As we see.


Yes, acting manipulative is not the same as being A Manipulator, and acting like a creeper does not mean BEING a creeper. (I consider those labels more appropriate for repeated and near-pathological behavior). Jake was inappropriate, Jake's mom was WAY inappropriate, and RegionMom's daughter was mostly fine but is getting a crash course in why a spine of steel is important when dealing with ANY manipulative or creepy behavior.

Garden Goblin

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Re: How strong was DD's "no" for prom?
« Reply #97 on: April 21, 2014, 06:20:50 PM »
I wonder if this is yet another example of people who are uncomfortable with simply saying no needing to make the asker bad, wrong, or rude (or worse) in some way in order to feel comfortable with someone's saying "no."

Please read the article I cited earlier. 

TootsNYC

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Re: How strong was DD's "no" for prom?
« Reply #98 on: April 21, 2014, 06:25:17 PM »

I wonder if this is yet another example of people who are uncomfortable with simply saying no needing to make the asker bad, wrong, or rude (or worse) in some way in order to feel comfortable with someone's saying "no."


I don't think so--because the person in the actual situation, who actually said "no" (in a way that wasn't all that roundabout), isn't vilifying Jay.

gellchom

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Re: How strong was DD's "no" for prom?
« Reply #99 on: April 21, 2014, 06:48:03 PM »
I agree, Toots, the person in the original story wasn't. That's not really who I was talking about.  I meant some of the posts in this discussion, and others like it, in general.

Indeed, look at the title of the original post: it clearly indicates that her mom is simply asking whether her daughter's response was strong, or I suppose clear, enough. That is a good question. I think most of us feel that the daughter didn't do anything wrong, but she could have been more clear, and this experience will help her understand why that's important.

Garden Goblin

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Re: How strong was DD's "no" for prom?
« Reply #100 on: April 21, 2014, 06:59:51 PM »
I think most of us feel that the daughter didn't do anything wrong, but she could have been more clear, and this experience will help her understand why that's important.

She was perfectly clear.  He understood the answer.  He just didn't like it, so he ignored it.

TootsNYC

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Re: How strong was DD's "no" for prom?
« Reply #101 on: April 21, 2014, 07:18:37 PM »
And this will be good practice for this:

Quote
I tell my niece, “if a guy offers to buy you a drink and you say no, and he pesters you until you say okay, what he wants for his money is to find out if you can be talked out of no.” . . . the purpose of setting clear boundaries is not to be understood — that’s not a problem — but to be understood to be too hard a target.


RegionMom

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Re: How strong was DD's "no" for prom? update 102
« Reply #102 on: April 21, 2014, 07:59:38 PM »
UPDATE-----

I very briefly spoke to DD on phone right after school, in-between piano students, to mention something about the vehicle, and asked, as an aside, how the conversation went.

"It was not a conversation.  It was, like, two seconds.  He is fine."

When I got home about 30 minutes ago, I went to her room, but she is busy studying/texting.

She told me just a bit, but mostly, she did NOT use the words, "I'm sorry."  She did say babysitting.  I asked if the word "mom" was spoken.  She said that she told him that his mom called me, and that was just weird.  He seemed to agree, and said that his mom should not have called.  DD said he was fine, no drama. 

DS remembered something from last year about this mom-  our HS has each senior present a large "project" before an audience.  This mom took one girl's presentation as her personal whipping boy and interrupted several times, claiming expertise in the field, and that the girl was wrong!!!
I had forgotten (was not there) but I DO recall hearing how mortified other adults were, and how poised the senior girl was while listening to the aggressive rant. 

So, I think I have met a crazy, and fully do NOT plan to engage her in any way, shape, or form!!

My DS, a senior, did say that Jay is nice enough, works hard at academics, but is rather clueless to social cues.  He talks to hear himself talk, and will run a subject to. the. ground. and. will. not. stop. talking!!  Which means, he does not listen to others.

So, Jay does not seem a creeper, just clueless.  And mom is crazy.

As for the dating future of DD, her "boyfriend" turns 18 this summer, so that may change things around here!

But, she was right in that for PROM, at this school that has a history of making the invite A Big Deal (songs, signs, flowers, etc...) a casual asking at a locker was just not up to par. 

And, no means no.   :D





Fear is temporary...Regret is forever.

DavidH

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Re: How strong was DD's "no" for prom? update 102
« Reply #103 on: April 21, 2014, 08:57:37 PM »
Reading it, the first answer your daughter gave seemed pretty clear to me.  The second, was a particularly unfortunate choice, since it was easy to misinterpret to hear what he wanted to hear.  Not saying he was right to buy tickets, but asking again seems pretty benign, since the first no could either be interpreted as "I didn't want to go, so I booked other things" or, "I hadn't planned on going, so I booked other things, but I might reconsider".  If the second is how he interpreted it, then a simple question along the lines of I know you hadn't planned on going and had made other plans, are you still sure you're not going would have been much more reasonable. 

His mother sounds crazy.  I'm not sure why we all assigned her decision to call to him.  I can't imagine any teenage boy asking his more to call the parents of a girl who declined his invitation to prom since very few things would be more embarrassing than that. 

The expectation that a guy will ask her father whether he can ask her on a date is highly unusual.  Particularly in college, it is impractical at best to figure out how to contact a girl's parents before asking her out. I have never heard of it happening that way.  My parents, who were going on HS dates in the 1950's said it wouldn't have happened that way then either. 

Cz. Burrito

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Re: How strong was DD's "no" for prom? update 102
« Reply #104 on: April 21, 2014, 09:09:08 PM »
Glad to hear that Jay gets it! Too bad about his mom. He must be a bit mortified that she called...