Author Topic: How strong was DD's "no" for prom? update 102  (Read 18541 times)

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RegionMom

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How strong was DD's "no" for prom? update 102
« on: April 20, 2014, 03:04:43 PM »
bg-

DD is a jr, age 16, at a private school where she is rather quiet.  She has a "boyfriend" that is not allowed to date till he is 18, but they hang out at shared activities and our families are mutual friends, but most of the kids at her school do not know about him, because she is...quiet.  He does not attend her school.

Prom is coming up, and he will be in another state at an international competition.  So, knowing she was not going to prom, and was not interested in going with a group of girls she is not really friends with, she accepted a babysitting job a few weeks ago. 

cue last Monday-

Fellow junior boy, let's call him "Jay," stopped by her locker before school and asked, "hey, if you are going to prom, could you and I go together?  Let me know so I can decide which car you want me to drive."

DD-" I have babysitting, and another activity (day of shooting with Scouts); I am not going."

cue Wednesday-

Jay, "I bought prom tickets just in case.  Let me know if you can go."
DD, "Okay??"

cue Friday night (no school Th or Fri)-

Jay's mom calls me.  I have not worked with her, could not pick her out from a line up, do not know her.  She asks if I have some time to talk.

Her story-

Jay asked DD to prom, and she agreed.  Jay had worked out who they were going with, had rented a tux, had made dinner reservations, and had texted DD that afternoon to check on her dress color.  DD had responded, "I am not going.  Sorry!"

And now, Jay is mistrustful and unsure of himself and "may not have the courage to ask another girl out because of this, and DD really set him back."

I was quite surprised, because all I know of this guy is that he is also in advanced classes and can be an annoying know-it-all, likes to talk a lot, and on class trips, sometimes wanders off following randomness. 

DD was out with a girlfriend (from yet another school) so I told the mom I would wait to speak with her, but that I had heard NOTHING about prom, and told her of the babysitting job right off the bat.  I did NOT mention "the boyfriend" because it was not relevant. 

Mom continued on that as a mom of two older girls now in their 20's that she would want a mom of a 16 year old  to know if their daughter was saying yes to a date and then not respecting that, or to make NO be a no.

I assured her that I would speak to DD, but since I had heard NOTHING about prom, I could not answer for her.

She continued repeating how upset her son was, and I let her go on.  I asked what should be done and offered DD for pay for tickets, or to cancel her babysitting job and make her go (but she does not have a dress) or, what??  And mom finally said that she wants DD to speak with Jay. 

And say what?

DH and I spoke with DD that night, as did DS, a senior, who also knows Jay only vaguely.  We all agree that her Wednesday, "Okay?" was not a firm NO.  But, how should DD proceed?

She said she did not tell us, because to her, asking someone out for a date includes asking the dad for permission, and then asking in a nice way.  (DS took a small bouquet of flowers for his date, after asking her dad for permission, and who all was going as a group date.)(His date is strictly a friend.)

She said his was less casual that asking to go study at a coffee shop.  No details, they do not talk, she does not consider him a friend.  I asked how many classes they shared, and once she counted it up, was quite surprised that it was four!! 

It was now late Friday night and too late to do any calls.

Sat was egg hunt help at church and then DD had yet another babysitting job.  Then today, Easter.  We are soon going over the DH's parents for the rest of the day. 

So, what does DD tell Jay tomorrow at school?

Sorry, of course, but for what, other than "not saying NO strongly enough."?


***********************************************************************
**I just asked DD if anyone at school knew he had asked her.  "Maybe (name) because her locker is next to mine and she might have heard when he asked?"
Then she asked what I was doing so I showed her this post, and she agreed it was correct.  I solemnly swear I have not changed anything and just added the *** part now.
*************************************************************

So, what for Monday for DD?








« Last Edit: April 21, 2014, 07:59:59 PM by RegionMom »
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RegionMom

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Re: How strong was DD's "no" for prom?
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2014, 03:13:07 PM »
Oh, prom is this coming Sat., the 26th.  School is small, less that 100 students per grade.

Prom is at a downtown hotel. 

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Millionaire Maria

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Re: How strong was DD's "no" for prom?
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2014, 03:16:30 PM »

So, what does DD tell Jay tomorrow at school?

Sorry, of course, but for what, other than "not saying NO strongly enough."?


Your daughter should absolutely not apologize. She should ignore Jay. And if Jay approaches her, she should tell him that he's old enough to know that when a girl tells him "no" he's supposed to listen. It is not a female responsibility to say "no" strongly enough. It is everyone's responsibility to take "no" for an answer and not try to coerce someone into a date by making them feel bad about their expenses. No way should your daughter apologize to this guy.
People everywhere enjoy believing in things they know are not true. It spares them the ordeal of thinking for themselves and taking responsibility for what they know. –Brooks Atkinson

MrTango

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Re: How strong was DD's "no" for prom?
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2014, 03:18:42 PM »
By saying "I have babysitting, and another activity (day of shooting with Scouts); I am not going," should have been all the answer he needed.

On the other hand, when he said he bought tickets "just in case," (which I think is a manipulative move on his part), she probably should have reiterated that she was not going to prom.

I wouldn't discuss the matter with Jay's mom at all, and I wouldn't tell your DD to bring up the topic with Jay.  I would advise her that if Jay brings up the subject again, that she should say "When you first asked me on [day] if I would go to the prom with you, I said no because I had a prior commitment."

AmethystAnne

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Re: How strong was DD's "no" for prom?
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2014, 03:20:01 PM »
At the time he asked her, your DD told the boy she 2 other events, and that she was not going to the prom.

Then he said a day or 2 later that he bought tickets just in case, and then told his Mom that essentially your DD led him on? Hmmm, he's really wanting for your DD to go with him isn't he. It seems to me that he told his mom so that she could add her 2 cents ?

He didn't want to take DD's No as really a No.

Oh, one more opinion of mine.... Do not reimburse the boy for the ticket.

jmarvellous

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Re: How strong was DD's "no" for prom?
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2014, 03:20:57 PM »
Saying "OK" on the second just-in-case ask ('cause that's what it was) is most definitely not saying "No."

I agree with his mom (who shouldn't have called you) that she needs to be clear, explicit, and probably apologetic.

"Jay, I'm sorry I wasn't clearer before. I am not going to go to the prom with you or anyone else. I'm busy that night. Good luck finding another date."

veronaz

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Re: How strong was DD's "no" for prom?
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2014, 03:23:37 PM »
This is a no brainer.

DD:  "Jay, I told you I wasn't going to the prom.  It's too bad your mother somehow got a different idea, but again, I'm not going to the prom."

Period.


Quote
She continued repeating how upset her son was, and I let her go on.  I asked what should be done and offered DD for pay for tickets, or to cancel her babysitting job and make her go (but she does not have a dress) or, what??  And mom finally said that she wants DD to speak with Jay. 

???

You were wrong to ask the woman what to do, and wrong to offer DD's payment of tickets  :o, and to ask that woman DD should cancel her babysitting.  What??!!  :o  You said you don't even know the woman, so I don't understand why you're allowing her to decide "what to do".

DD told Jay when he fist asked that she was NOT going to the prom.  That's it.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2014, 03:33:29 PM by veronaz »

NyaChan

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Re: How strong was DD's "no" for prom?
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2014, 03:25:59 PM »
Saying "OK" on the second just-in-case ask ('cause that's what it was) is most definitely not saying "No."

I agree with his mom (who shouldn't have called you) that she needs to be clear, explicit, and probably apologetic.

"Jay, I'm sorry I wasn't clearer before. I am not going to go to the prom with you or anyone else. I'm busy that night. Good luck finding another date."

Yeah, reading that interaction made me think she'd opened the door to the possibility that she'd be going with him.  I think she should approach Jay in person and apologize for the misunderstanding the other day, but as she told him when he asked originally, she is going to be busy that night.

Allyson

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Re: How strong was DD's "no" for prom?
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2014, 03:33:09 PM »
I think she can say she's sorry for the misunderstanding, and reiterate than when he first asked her, she *did* say she wasn't going at all. I don't think you need to reimburse for the tickets, but I also don't think this is really 'about' that.

I do think that if your daughter thinks that all dates involve asking the dad for permission, she will be surprised, though. If that's something she needs/wants to happen, I think she needs to make that clear rather than expect all guys will know that.

TeamBhakta

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Re: How strong was DD's "no" for prom?
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2014, 03:40:13 PM »
Jay reminds me of that creepy manipulative guy Lisa Whelchel married (and later divorced). You know, the older guy who was jealous she had a boyfriend, so he got up in church one day, announced they were getting married and Lisa got railroaded into marrying him instead of her boyfriend.

NyaChan

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Re: How strong was DD's "no" for prom?
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2014, 03:43:15 PM »
I think she can say she's sorry for the misunderstanding, and reiterate than when he first asked her, she *did* say she wasn't going at all. I don't think you need to reimburse for the tickets, but I also don't think this is really 'about' that.

I do think that if your daughter thinks that all dates involve asking the dad for permission, she will be surprised, though. If that's something she needs/wants to happen, I think she needs to make that clear rather than expect all guys will know that.

Yeah, I second that.  I would be really taken aback by that expectation unless that was the cultural norm in the area or the community.

RegionMom

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Re: How strong was DD's "no" for prom?
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2014, 03:49:41 PM »
We have kept our lives rather conservative, and I was (nicely) surprised to hear from DD that she expects a date to ask permission from dad.  She also expects her guy (now and/or future) to open the door for her, know how to camp and shoot, carry on a good conversation with adults, go to church, tip well, etc...  :)

I did briefly explain that it can be extremely casual, but she pointed our for PROM, it should be a Big. Deal.   And, with plenty of time to shop for a great dress!

Some kids have sent balloon bouquets, written giant notes on cars, sung a song, fun poster/poem on a locker, called out during class with a special message, etc...  since this is a small private school, the kids have known each other for years, and prom is the big party night.  Well-chaperoned, but, party!!

DH and I have been loosening the reins, looking for when they go off to college.  They do drive, cook, do their own laundry, watch movies, etc...but, old-fashioned respect is good.  :)
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NyaChan

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Re: How strong was DD's "no" for prom?
« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2014, 03:52:33 PM »
Oh I think it's fine to want that, nothing wrong with it, but I don't think that is in sync with what other kids her age would be in the habit of doing.  In other words, the guys asking her out won't know to go ask her dad first unless she tells them that's what she expects.

nayberry

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Re: How strong was DD's "no" for prom?
« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2014, 04:01:24 PM »
so she said no, giving her reason, other events, and he has gotten his mum involved?

i'd be calling the mum and reiterating that dd had turned down the invite and not be offering to pay for anything.

JenJay

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Re: How strong was DD's "no" for prom?
« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2014, 04:05:29 PM »
I think she should tell Jay "I apologize if I gave you the impression that I accepted your invitation to prom on Wednesday. I was confused when you said you bought tickets and I didn't mean for my "Okay?" to come across as an acceptance. As I said on Monday, I'm not going to prom."

She does not owe him further explanation or apology, nor should she reimburse him any expenses. If his mom calls again tell her "DD told Jay on Monday that she wasn't available to go to prom. We're sorry that he misunderstood." and nothing more.