Author Topic: Etiquette With A Screaming, Tantrumming Toddler  (Read 7549 times)

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DavidH

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Re: Etiquette With A Screaming, Tantrumming Toddler
« Reply #90 on: July 11, 2014, 08:03:51 PM »
I totally agree that tutting at someone is rude.  However, knowingly annoying others in a public setting and doing noting to mitigate that is rude.  Singing in a restaurant is, at best, right at the edge of rude.  Anyone, small child, adult or otherwise with a high pitched voice singing in a restaurant is definitely rude.  To allow your child with a high pitched voice to sing in a restaurant and then get upset that people judge you is absurd.  Polite behavior would be to teach your child that there is a time and place for singing, that doesn't include in a restaurant.

I'm not sure what you mean by, "I know it's hard, but your responsibility is to your child".  I hope you mean that your responsibility is to teach your child the right way to act and that having a tantrum or singing in a restaurant is not acceptable. 

TootsNYC

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Re: Etiquette With A Screaming, Tantrumming Toddler
« Reply #91 on: July 11, 2014, 08:18:42 PM »

I'm not sure what you mean by, "I know it's hard, but your responsibility is to your child".  I hope you mean that your responsibility is to teach your child the right way to act and that having a tantrum or singing in a restaurant is not acceptable.

No, it means that your *first* responsibility is to your child--to be sure is he safe, emotionally comfortable (i.e., recovered from the distress that created the tantrum), and learning what he needs to learn in an age-appropriate way.

And Hollanda is strict with her child when he has a tantrum -not- because this is good for other people, but because it will be good for -him- to learn emotional control. Because he will be a stronger and happier person when he learns how to handle his distress.
   The fact that he will then not annoy other people is a completely secondary benefit to the whole thing.

Teaching your child manners is something you do for your child because it is good *for him*, not because it is polite to the world around you. He is your first priority.

Other people are secondary or tertiary concerns. You don't teach your child to be polite because you don't want to bother them. You teach your child to be polite because it is a skill that is important *for him*.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2014, 09:48:58 PM by TootsNYC »

bah12

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Re: Etiquette With A Screaming, Tantrumming Toddler
« Reply #92 on: July 11, 2014, 08:29:43 PM »

I'm not sure what you mean by, "I know it's hard, but your responsibility is to your child".  I hope you mean that your responsibility is to teach your child the right way to act and that having a tantrum or singing in a restaurant is not acceptable.

No, it means that your *first* responsibility is to your child--to be sure is he safe, emotionally comfortable (i.e., recovered from the distress that created the tantrum), and learning what he needs to learn in an age-appropriate way.

And Hollanda is strict with her child when he has a tantrum -not- because this is good for other people, but because it will be good for -him- to learn emotional control. Because he will be a stronger and happier person when he learns how to handle his distress.
   The fact that he will then annoy other people is completely secondary to the whole thing.

Teaching your child manners is something you do for your child because it is good *for him*, not because it is polite to the world around you. He is your first priority.

Other people are secondary or tertiary concerns. You don't teach your child to be polite because you don't want to bother them. You teach your child to be polite because it is a skill that is important *for him*.

Exactly. Teaching a child to be polite is for the child,  not for the approval of strangers.

bah12

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Re: Etiquette With A Screaming, Tantrumming Toddler
« Reply #93 on: July 11, 2014, 08:58:11 PM »
I totally agree that tutting at someone is rude.  However, knowingly annoying others in a public setting and doing noting to mitigate that is rude.  Singing in a restaurant is, at best, right at the edge of rude.  Anyone, small child, adult or otherwise with a high pitched voice singing in a restaurant is definitely rude.  To allow your child with a high pitched voice to sing in a restaurant and then get upset that people judge you is absurd.  Polite behavior would be to teach your child that there is a time and place for singing, that doesn't include in a restaurant.

I'm not sure what you mean by, "I know it's hard, but your responsibility is to your child".  I hope you mean that your responsibility is to teach your child the right way to act and that having a tantrum or singing in a restaurant is not acceptable.

Is it just the high pitched voices you disapprove of?  Women and children?  You would be ok with a lower pitched male singing quietly?  How about those with nasally voices, or those people with really distinct and weird laughs?  How about the people that sneeze loudly even though they can't help it?  All of that is annoying to me...are they rude to annoy me so?  Should they all avoid going to restaurants where their funny noises will undoubtedly bother me?

It's just as unrealistic to expect that people will never make a noise that you don't like...even more so than it is to expect adults to behave appropriately when faced with something they don't like.  You can judge all you want...but when you do it outwardly and with intent of your judgment to be known, it is beyond rude.  No annoyance excuses that behavior.

Do you really think that the OP intended to annoy with the couple with her child singing quietly and calmly before quietly reading a book?

Kaymar

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Re: Etiquette With A Screaming, Tantrumming Toddler
« Reply #94 on: July 11, 2014, 09:34:10 PM »
I totally agree that tutting at someone is rude.  However, knowingly annoying others in a public setting and doing noting to mitigate that is rude.  Singing in a restaurant is, at best, right at the edge of rude.  Anyone, small child, adult or otherwise with a high pitched voice singing in a restaurant is definitely rude.  To allow your child with a high pitched voice to sing in a restaurant and then get upset that people judge you is absurd.  Polite behavior would be to teach your child that there is a time and place for singing, that doesn't include in a restaurant.

I'm not sure what you mean by, "I know it's hard, but your responsibility is to your child".  I hope you mean that your responsibility is to teach your child the right way to act and that having a tantrum or singing in a restaurant is not acceptable.

I'm not DavidH, but singing lullabyes in a pub to a toddler... is just not something I would expect to hear, and depending on the day/week, I might react with incredulity that is at least slightly visible on my face.

Is it just the high pitched voices you disapprove of?  Women and children?  You would be ok with a lower pitched male singing quietly?  How about those with nasally voices, or those people with really distinct and weird laughs?  How about the people that sneeze loudly even though they can't help it?  All of that is annoying to me...are they rude to annoy me so?  Should they all avoid going to restaurants where their funny noises will undoubtedly bother me?

It's just as unrealistic to expect that people will never make a noise that you don't like...even more so than it is to expect adults to behave appropriately when faced with something they don't like.  You can judge all you want...but when you do it outwardly and with intent of your judgment to be known, it is beyond rude.  No annoyance excuses that behavior.

Do you really think that the OP intended to annoy with the couple with her child singing quietly and calmly before quietly reading a book?