Author Topic: What do you all think of this?  (Read 15274 times)

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wolfie

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Re: What do you all think of this?
« Reply #90 on: April 23, 2014, 02:49:10 PM »
It's the UK so the day after Christmas would be Boxing Day and would be a holiday.

The OP says that GF over did it on Christmas and then spent the next day in bed. SO she was now leaving the day after the day after christmas - which is to say it sounds like the earliest it could be is the 27th. No longer boxing day. I don't know if that is a holiday in the UK or not.

Outdoor Girl

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Re: What do you all think of this?
« Reply #91 on: April 23, 2014, 02:52:22 PM »
It's the UK so the day after Christmas would be Boxing Day and would be a holiday.

The OP says that GF over did it on Christmas and then spent the next day in bed. SO she was now leaving the day after the day after christmas - which is to say it sounds like the earliest it could be is the 27th. No longer boxing day. I don't know if that is a holiday in the UK or not.

You are correct!  Missed that.  The 27th was a Friday and then it was the weekend, if we are talking about this Christmas just passed.  If the BF's job was a 9 to 5 type thing, he would have missed one day but then be able to use the weekend to get back, if he hadn't already taken vacation for that day.
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Re: What do you all think of this?
« Reply #92 on: April 23, 2014, 02:55:32 PM »
It's the UK so the day after Christmas would be Boxing Day and would be a holiday.

The OP says that GF over did it on Christmas and then spent the next day in bed. SO she was now leaving the day after the day after christmas - which is to say it sounds like the earliest it could be is the 27th. No longer boxing day. I don't know if that is a holiday in the UK or not.

You are correct!  Missed that.  The 27th was a Friday and then it was the weekend, if we are talking about this Christmas just passed.  If the BF's job was a 9 to 5 type thing, he would have missed one day but then be able to use the weekend to get back, if he hadn't already taken vacation for that day.

UK offices pretty much shut down between Christmas Eve (around lunchtime normally) and 2 January.  Everywhere I've worked that's kept 9-5 office hours has required you to keep 3 days leave to use between Christmas and New Year.

As far as the issue of the thread - I'd love to know what was actually said between boyfriend and parents, I wonder if great aunt Hilda was arriving to stay the next day and GF staying would have led to a bed shortage.

wolfie

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Re: What do you all think of this?
« Reply #93 on: April 23, 2014, 02:57:59 PM »
It's the UK so the day after Christmas would be Boxing Day and would be a holiday.

The OP says that GF over did it on Christmas and then spent the next day in bed. SO she was now leaving the day after the day after christmas - which is to say it sounds like the earliest it could be is the 27th. No longer boxing day. I don't know if that is a holiday in the UK or not.

You are correct!  Missed that.  The 27th was a Friday and then it was the weekend, if we are talking about this Christmas just passed.  If the BF's job was a 9 to 5 type thing, he would have missed one day but then be able to use the weekend to get back, if he hadn't already taken vacation for that day.

UK offices pretty much shut down between Christmas Eve (around lunchtime normally) and 2 January.  Everywhere I've worked that's kept 9-5 office hours has required you to keep 3 days leave to use between Christmas and New Year.

As far as the issue of the thread - I'd love to know what was actually said between boyfriend and parents, I wonder if great aunt Hilda was arriving to stay the next day and GF staying would have led to a bed shortage.

But he doesn't have a office job - he has clients. So who knows if that is the same for him.

wolfie

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Re: What do you all think of this?
« Reply #94 on: April 23, 2014, 03:00:52 PM »

In that case, she chose to drive herself, but I don't blame her for not wanting to spend another night with those people.  So a part of me still wonders why he didn't just tell her he'd leave with her.

Because while that sounds great on paper it isn't always that easy in real life. If he drove down with her in her car how would he get back home? Did he have more vacation days or did he have to go to work the next day? Did he have things that he needed to do in his town while he had a day off that couldn't be put off for a few days while he sorted out how to get back home?

Saying he must earn enough to move out on his own isn't something we actually know (this wasn't in your post but in other people's) I just read a nice article about how affordable apartments just don't exist in some areas because supply is way under demand so you either stay with your parents or you have to rent with a roommate or two. We don't know what his housing/job situation is - could be that the parents are a better option. And maybe he has had very bad luck with roommates before and thought that his parents he can at least live with.

Sure, it's an assumption and we don't know the local housing situation. But right now he is in an untenable situation of having to ask permission of mommy & daddy whenever he wants to host someone overnight. Ok. Replace "mommy & daddy" in that last sentence there with "landlord". Who would really be ok with that?

Part of growing up is being independent. If that means living with roommates or whatever, then that's what you do. But if the parents have veto power over whether GF (or anyone) can spend the night, I don't see that as being a "better option".

It might not have come up until then. It might have been working perfectly well until that Christmas visit - and then he realized that hey there are major problems that came up and now I need to deal with them.

I will give him an out for that Christmas - he was probably blindsided by his parents reactions and he might not have been able to think of a plan B on his feet. It's easy to say "he could have done a b or c" afterwards when you aren't in the heat of the moment. TO me what would be a better gauge of is this a relationship that can last is what did he do afterwards? Is he looking at moving out? Is he looking to move to his GF's town? Did he lay down the law to his parents and tell them to back off?

bah12

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Re: What do you all think of this?
« Reply #95 on: April 23, 2014, 03:06:49 PM »
I can manage my disability fine.  I cannot manage OTHER people's expectations of my disability.  So you either get a disapproving look, or you try to do what you can, if you can.   And I'll challenge anyone not to do similarly.

This is true; however, I do think you can communicate it.  If you asked your BF to drop you off at the restaurant because you couldn't walk hills, you'd be communicating your limitations.  If you didn't tell his mom how often or about how long you expected to need to rest, then understand that she may not automatically know that the rest frequency and duration fit within the timeline for making the reservation (especially if she's normally impatient or worries about minor things).   And using your previous statement about trying to act as 'normal' as possible to not appear like a burden, if you've walked with the mom before, then why be surprised that she didn't realize you couldn't do it this time?

I'm not saying that you did anything wrong.  I don't think you did.  I just think that these things aren't automatically so one sided.

I do think that we all need to be more understanding of each other.  It's not fair to assume that when someone says they are in pain, they are lying...even if you've experirenced others lying to get out of something or to gain attention.  At the same time, it's not fair to assume that someone that doesn't understand the extent of your pain or the difficulty you might have in predicting it, is doing it because they have some vendetta against you...even if you've run into those that discriminate in the past.

TurtleDove

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Re: What do you all think of this?
« Reply #96 on: April 23, 2014, 03:10:29 PM »
She can’t stand still for long and generally can’t stay in one position for too long as both of these cause intense pain.
...
On Christmas Day, Girlfriend spent the entire day in the sitting room with the family. By the time other guests were leaving, she was in considerable pain from sitting around for so long. Because of this, she ended up having to spend most of the following day in bed.
...
Boyfriend’s parents said that Girlfriend was antisocial (presumably for spending the previous day in bed) and made comments to the gist of if she was to stay in their house again, she would have to change her ways.

I went back to the OP because I still cannot wrap my head around what happened.  I think the snipped parts are what is likely confusing for the BF's parents.  Why did GF not get up and move around as per normal?  She was not asked to do *more* than usual - it's not like she was chopping firewood, or cleaning out an attic, or cooking and doing dishes strenuously for four hours.  She was simply socializing, and if she needed to switch positions or go for a walk or ____, why didn't she?  If the problem was that she was "sitting around for so long" one day, why was the solution to lay around all day the next?  I am not calling into question that the GF was in pain, or that she shouldn't have had to lay down the next day, but I do see how the BF's parents would be confused by her actions.  I also think it matters a great deal how the GF presented her predicament.  From what the OP has told us, I get the sense the GF didn't actually explain anything to the BF's parents but rather had BF ask if she could stay another day, presumably keeping to herself in BF's room.  I think it is difficult to grasp why the GF couldn't do her recuperating, which apparently was more "sitting around" along with everyone else, which would have come across as far less antisocial.  Also, I hope GF has a prescription for pain medication if her disability causes so much pain!

Lynn2000

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Re: What do you all think of this?
« Reply #97 on: April 23, 2014, 03:15:22 PM »
Side story: This reminds me of something that happened to my friend Jill. She was dating this guy, John, and spent a day at Christmas with his family. This being the Midwest, the weather turned horrible and there was literally a blizzard outside. Her original plan had been to drive to her dad's house in another town (different suburbs of the same city) to spend the night, but seeing the weather, John and Jill asked if she could spend the night at his parents' house--she would be sleeping on the couch in the downstairs living room, while everyone else was in their bedrooms upstairs. The parents said no. They were very conservative and apparently felt that just her sleeping under their roof without being married to their son was too much. So they sent her out into a blizzard. Thankfully, she was able to drive safely to her dad's house.

Although as I said I totally support a homeowner's right to kick someone out of their house--you just don't send someone out into a blizzard, when that someone hasn't done anything bad to you. Five minutes ago Jill was a welcome holiday guest and potential part of their family, but now she's a pariah who must be booted out into a storm? That's not right.

What happened between Jill and John after that? were there any repercussions?

Jill and John went on to get married, which they still are, and they seem very happy. They do live on the other side of the country from his family and don't come back to visit very often. A few years ago his father passed away and his mom and sisters seemed to loosen up after that, so maybe it was the father's opinion that was so strict before. At the time I was pretty appalled on Jill's behalf and didn't think much of John for letting this happen; but they seem to have worked it out between them, and that's the important thing.

On the main subject, I am leaning more towards confusion caused by the nebulous nature of Girlfriend's condition. As others have said, if even Boyfriend, in whose room she was staying, didn't realize how bad she was until she got up to leave, it seems unlikely his parents would have understood it. As Hmmmmm suggested, sometimes people just have trouble empathizing with pain they've never experienced, and maybe these parents were also leaning towards disliking Girlfriend due to the various misunderstandings anyway.

I feel like Boyfriend is allowing his parents to be overly involved in his life. Economics is a powerful thing, I get that. But I don't think Boyfriend can have it all at this point--he wants to live with his parents (client base, acceptable rent level) but also deepen his relationship with Girlfriend, who lives hours away, and whom his parents don't like.

If he were living separately from them I would say that he should distance himself from them physically and emotionally for a while, then check in and see if they are ready to really listen to him about the life he wants to have with Girlfriend. But in this case, he physically can't get far away from them and they're always going to have more knowledge of his comings and goings, more opportunity to make judgmental comments to him, etc..

It's unfortunate, but I think he has to make a choice about who he wants most in his life--and it would be really difficult to choose Girlfriend, while still living with his parents. Optimistically, I hope his parents can come around someday, but I think it's rather tough to show them that he's an independent adult with his own life--to set that boundary with them--if he's still living with them.
~Lynn2000

mich3554

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Re: What do you all think of this?
« Reply #98 on: April 23, 2014, 03:30:02 PM »
I can manage my disability fine.  I cannot manage OTHER people's expectations of my disability.  So you either get a disapproving look, or you try to do what you can, if you can.   And I'll challenge anyone not to do similarly.

This is true; however, I do think you can communicate it.  If you asked your BF to drop you off at the restaurant because you couldn't walk hills, you'd be communicating your limitations.  If you didn't tell his mom how often or about how long you expected to need to rest, then understand that she may not automatically know that the rest frequency and duration fit within the timeline for making the reservation (especially if she's normally impatient or worries about minor things).   And using your previous statement about trying to act as 'normal' as possible to not appear like a burden, if you've walked with the mom before, then why be surprised that she didn't realize you couldn't do it this time?

I'm not saying that you did anything wrong.  I don't think you did.  I just think that these things aren't automatically so one sided.

I do think that we all need to be more understanding of each other.  It's not fair to assume that when someone says they are in pain, they are lying...even if you've experirenced others lying to get out of something or to gain attention.  At the same time, it's not fair to assume that someone that doesn't understand the extent of your pain or the difficulty you might have in predicting it, is doing it because they have some vendetta against you...even if you've run into those that discriminate in the past.

I wrote that I could walk 4 blocks, but had never walked 4 blocks where 2 were very steep hills.  As I had never done it, and didn't realize that they were there until we got to the corner, then I was rather stuck.  That was why I requested my b/f get the car, so I wouldn't have to do that on the way back.

In my case, my b/f's mother was around when my year+ of medical hell occurred.  She knew exactly what my disability was because she took care of me very early in my illness, when my b/f needed to go on a short business trip and she came down to stay with me because I could not stay by myself at the time.   At that time, I had problem putting on my own underwear and needed help to the bathroom!

The thing is....it has been 2.5 years now and I have only been mobile the last year.  She thinks I should be back to 'normal' but I will never be back to normal, regardless of what I tell her, her son tells her, or even my orthopod telling her.  If she thinks I should be able to do it, then cuss it all to tarnation, I'm being a wimp because I can't do it.

bah12

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Re: What do you all think of this?
« Reply #99 on: April 23, 2014, 03:39:44 PM »
I can manage my disability fine.  I cannot manage OTHER people's expectations of my disability.  So you either get a disapproving look, or you try to do what you can, if you can.   And I'll challenge anyone not to do similarly.

This is true; however, I do think you can communicate it.  If you asked your BF to drop you off at the restaurant because you couldn't walk hills, you'd be communicating your limitations.  If you didn't tell his mom how often or about how long you expected to need to rest, then understand that she may not automatically know that the rest frequency and duration fit within the timeline for making the reservation (especially if she's normally impatient or worries about minor things).   And using your previous statement about trying to act as 'normal' as possible to not appear like a burden, if you've walked with the mom before, then why be surprised that she didn't realize you couldn't do it this time?

I'm not saying that you did anything wrong.  I don't think you did.  I just think that these things aren't automatically so one sided.

I do think that we all need to be more understanding of each other.  It's not fair to assume that when someone says they are in pain, they are lying...even if you've experirenced others lying to get out of something or to gain attention.  At the same time, it's not fair to assume that someone that doesn't understand the extent of your pain or the difficulty you might have in predicting it, is doing it because they have some vendetta against you...even if you've run into those that discriminate in the past.

I wrote that I could walk 4 blocks, but had never walked 4 blocks where 2 were very steep hills.  As I had never done it, and didn't realize that they were there until we got to the corner, then I was rather stuck.  That was why I requested my b/f get the car, so I wouldn't have to do that on the way back.

In my case, my b/f's mother was around when my year+ of medical hell occurred.  She knew exactly what my disability was because she took care of me very early in my illness, when my b/f needed to go on a short business trip and she came down to stay with me because I could not stay by myself at the time.   At that time, I had problem putting on my own underwear and needed help to the bathroom!

The thing is....it has been 2.5 years now and I have only been mobile the last year.  She thinks I should be back to 'normal' but I will never be back to normal, regardless of what I tell her, her son tells her, or even my orthopod telling her.  If she thinks I should be able to do it, then cuss it all to tarnation, I'm being a wimp because I can't do it.

I'm sorry you experienced this.  Please see the bolded in my post though.  Just because these people exist, doesn't mean that everyone is the same way (to include the parents in the OP).  Maybe they  are, but I think it's no more fair to assume that of them than it would be for me to assume that you are over-dramatizing your illness/injury, just because my Aunt did so for years. 

We all give advice that are colored by our own experiences.  I get that.  But our experiences are not universal.  It doesn't sound to me like the parents or the BF understood the extend of GF's pain and considering that she did end up driving herself home, I'm not sure that they'll fully understand the next time either.  We can go around assuming the worse of everyone, or can we try to see that maybe they just don't get it and try to explain and try to understand where they are coming from.  The first leads to misunderstandings, hurt feelings, and pain and the second at least gives an opportunity to better a relationship

lowspark

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Re: What do you all think of this?
« Reply #100 on: April 23, 2014, 04:10:23 PM »

In that case, she chose to drive herself, but I don't blame her for not wanting to spend another night with those people.  So a part of me still wonders why he didn't just tell her he'd leave with her.

Because while that sounds great on paper it isn't always that easy in real life. If he drove down with her in her car how would he get back home? Did he have more vacation days or did he have to go to work the next day? Did he have things that he needed to do in his town while he had a day off that couldn't be put off for a few days while he sorted out how to get back home?

Saying he must earn enough to move out on his own isn't something we actually know (this wasn't in your post but in other people's) I just read a nice article about how affordable apartments just don't exist in some areas because supply is way under demand so you either stay with your parents or you have to rent with a roommate or two. We don't know what his housing/job situation is - could be that the parents are a better option. And maybe he has had very bad luck with roommates before and thought that his parents he can at least live with.

Sure, it's an assumption and we don't know the local housing situation. But right now he is in an untenable situation of having to ask permission of mommy & daddy whenever he wants to host someone overnight. Ok. Replace "mommy & daddy" in that last sentence there with "landlord". Who would really be ok with that?

Part of growing up is being independent. If that means living with roommates or whatever, then that's what you do. But if the parents have veto power over whether GF (or anyone) can spend the night, I don't see that as being a "better option".

It might not have come up until then. It might have been working perfectly well until that Christmas visit - and then he realized that hey there are major problems that came up and now I need to deal with them.

I will give him an out for that Christmas - he was probably blindsided by his parents reactions and he might not have been able to think of a plan B on his feet. It's easy to say "he could have done a b or c" afterwards when you aren't in the heat of the moment. TO me what would be a better gauge of is this a relationship that can last is what did he do afterwards? Is he looking at moving out? Is he looking to move to his GF's town? Did he lay down the law to his parents and tell them to back off?

I went back to the OP to clarify this.
GF actually visited (and stayed overnight) the first time about two months before Christmas. So it first came up then.

But here's the clincher from the OP:
Quote
Boyfriend asked his parents if they would be okay with Girlfriend staying with him for the occasional weekend on the basis that he will check prior to each visit that the weekend chosen is not going to be a problem. They were fine with this.

I don't know if the parents had laid down any laws regarding overnight stays for girls but it looks like BF just took it upon himself to set up this dynamic of having to ask permission every time. So, if GF is staying in BF's room and he's just a tenant, why would any given weekend be a problem for the parents creating a need for him to check before inviting her?

Red flag here: BF has some growing up to do. I'm sort of becoming more sympathetic toward the parents here, especially taking this into consideration, which hadn't occurred to me before:

But according to the second update, not even the BF understood how much pain the GF was in. So how could the parents know?

wolfie

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Re: What do you all think of this?
« Reply #101 on: April 23, 2014, 04:19:05 PM »

In that case, she chose to drive herself, but I don't blame her for not wanting to spend another night with those people.  So a part of me still wonders why he didn't just tell her he'd leave with her.

Because while that sounds great on paper it isn't always that easy in real life. If he drove down with her in her car how would he get back home? Did he have more vacation days or did he have to go to work the next day? Did he have things that he needed to do in his town while he had a day off that couldn't be put off for a few days while he sorted out how to get back home?

Saying he must earn enough to move out on his own isn't something we actually know (this wasn't in your post but in other people's) I just read a nice article about how affordable apartments just don't exist in some areas because supply is way under demand so you either stay with your parents or you have to rent with a roommate or two. We don't know what his housing/job situation is - could be that the parents are a better option. And maybe he has had very bad luck with roommates before and thought that his parents he can at least live with.

Sure, it's an assumption and we don't know the local housing situation. But right now he is in an untenable situation of having to ask permission of mommy & daddy whenever he wants to host someone overnight. Ok. Replace "mommy & daddy" in that last sentence there with "landlord". Who would really be ok with that?

Part of growing up is being independent. If that means living with roommates or whatever, then that's what you do. But if the parents have veto power over whether GF (or anyone) can spend the night, I don't see that as being a "better option".

It might not have come up until then. It might have been working perfectly well until that Christmas visit - and then he realized that hey there are major problems that came up and now I need to deal with them.

I will give him an out for that Christmas - he was probably blindsided by his parents reactions and he might not have been able to think of a plan B on his feet. It's easy to say "he could have done a b or c" afterwards when you aren't in the heat of the moment. TO me what would be a better gauge of is this a relationship that can last is what did he do afterwards? Is he looking at moving out? Is he looking to move to his GF's town? Did he lay down the law to his parents and tell them to back off?

I went back to the OP to clarify this.
GF actually visited (and stayed overnight) the first time about two months before Christmas. So it first came up then.

But here's the clincher from the OP:
Quote
Boyfriend asked his parents if they would be okay with Girlfriend staying with him for the occasional weekend on the basis that he will check prior to each visit that the weekend chosen is not going to be a problem. They were fine with this.

I don't know if the parents had laid down any laws regarding overnight stays for girls but it looks like BF just took it upon himself to set up this dynamic of having to ask permission every time. So, if GF is staying in BF's room and he's just a tenant, why would any given weekend be a problem for the parents creating a need for him to check before inviting her?

Red flag here: BF has some growing up to do. I'm sort of becoming more sympathetic toward the parents here, especially taking this into consideration, which hadn't occurred to me before:

But according to the second update, not even the BF understood how much pain the GF was in. So how could the parents know?

The staying over first came up 2 months before Christmas. The unreasonable reaction from the parents came up at Christmas time. Up until the Christmas incident I don't think the parents were that out of line. They weren't great either but it wouldn't be red flag issues for me. The Christmas incident would make me really think things through.

lorelai

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Re: What do you all think of this?
« Reply #102 on: April 23, 2014, 04:21:18 PM »
She can’t stand still for long and generally can’t stay in one position for too long as both of these cause intense pain.
...
On Christmas Day, Girlfriend spent the entire day in the sitting room with the family. By the time other guests were leaving, she was in considerable pain from sitting around for so long. Because of this, she ended up having to spend most of the following day in bed.
...
Boyfriend’s parents said that Girlfriend was antisocial (presumably for spending the previous day in bed) and made comments to the gist of if she was to stay in their house again, she would have to change her ways.

I went back to the OP because I still cannot wrap my head around what happened.  I think the snipped parts are what is likely confusing for the BF's parents.  Why did GF not get up and move around as per normal?  She was not asked to do *more* than usual - it's not like she was chopping firewood, or cleaning out an attic, or cooking and doing dishes strenuously for four hours.  She was simply socializing, and if she needed to switch positions or go for a walk or ____, why didn't she?  If the problem was that she was "sitting around for so long" one day, why was the solution to lay around all day the next?  I am not calling into question that the GF was in pain, or that she shouldn't have had to lay down the next day, but I do see how the BF's parents would be confused by her actions.  I also think it matters a great deal how the GF presented her predicament.  From what the OP has told us, I get the sense the GF didn't actually explain anything to the BF's parents but rather had BF ask if she could stay another day, presumably keeping to herself in BF's room.  I think it is difficult to grasp why the GF couldn't do her recuperating, which apparently was more "sitting around" along with everyone else, which would have come across as far less antisocial.  Also, I hope GF has a prescription for pain medication if her disability causes so much pain!

The answer has already been given by the OP. GF did take steps to mitigate her pain, but sometimes these reactions can't be predicted in advance. See here below. I don't see how his parents could be confused by her actions, when BF's mom was completely aware of her disability (she answered all her questions, and then some).

BF and GF were both aware that the Christmas visit was more of a family thing and their presence with the rest of the family would be expected for the majority of the time. By this stage, GF was already aware that BF’s parents may be considering her disability an issue because of comments made by Mother during the discussion she initiated about GF’s disability. Due to this, she didn’t want to call further attention to it and was hoping she could get through the day by moving around the sitting room every so often (which she did) and by taking pain killers, and be relatively fine the next morning. Someone mentioned that it can be difficult to know where the “line” is when it comes to judging the limits on what is going to cause a lot of pain and what will not, and this certainly applies to GF. Sometimes she can take part in something, sometimes she can’t, and she doesn’t always know how it will go until she tries it.

One poster suggested GF seemed to be blaming BF’s parents for “making her be in pain”. This is not the case at all, she was merely upset by their reaction to her pain – the accusation of being antisocial when she struggled to even get up out of bed to use the bathroom and the attitude of “we don’t care that you will have to drive 4-5 hours in horrible pain, we want you out of our house now”.

What incenses me is that BF's parents continue to be determined to blame GF for everything that happened, and expect an apology from her. I don't think she has anything to apologize for, especially given that there have been nasty comments made (that the OP has mentioned but not gone into detail about).

TurtleDove

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Re: What do you all think of this?
« Reply #103 on: April 23, 2014, 04:22:40 PM »
I would really like to hear the BF's perspective on what happened and the BF's parents' perspective.  Based on the information we were provided very little of the situation makes sense to me, including the GF's actions.

miranova

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Re: What do you all think of this?
« Reply #104 on: April 23, 2014, 04:26:41 PM »
Agree that BF needs to move out.  I think the financial assumptions are a red herring.  What if he didn't have parents, or didn't work in the same town as his parents, or just plain if his parents didn't want him living with them?  He'd find a way, he would have to.  If this doesn't give him the motivation, nothing will.  Life is expensive, paying rent is expensive. We all have to find a way eventually, unless we plan to live with our parents forever.