Author Topic: What do you all think of this?  (Read 15998 times)

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bah12

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Re: What do you all think of this?
« Reply #210 on: April 25, 2014, 11:28:10 AM »
Wondering about how permanent the injury is, what this means for her son as a possible future caretaker, how it might affect children they'd have, etc...these are legitimate concerns.

I think they're legitimate concerns to be discussed between Boyfriend and Girlfriend, but that they're not really appropriate things for the parents to be grilling Girlfriend about. It's not really their business what arrangements and discussions the two of them have made/had between them. If they're really concerned, they can address it privately with Boyfriend (which it sounds like they've also done) but I don't think that's appropriate first-meeting conversation to have with Girlfriend, at all.

I don't know...maybe.  I think that it would have been ideal for them to learn these things slowly as they got to know GF. 

Again, I don't have a disability. But my MIL did ask me several questions about my job and my travel and my basic philosophy on things like family, etc.  Sure, I discussed all these things with my DH too, but I didn't find the questioning too intrusive.  On one hand, it's her getting to know more about me and I think that there's just a natural concern that parents have for their kids...even thier adult kids.  If BF is quiet and doesn't pass on a bunch of info (which seems to be the case from both posts), then I can see the mom feeling like she can ask the more talkative GF.  On the second visit, yeah, I can agree that it's a bit much...especially since I think they should have communicated to her by then, that there are no immediate plans for marriage.  At the same time, I do think the GF owed some explanation of how her disability affects her visit.  It made a difference here, so some specific explanation would have helped.

Also, it's strange to me how some argue that the GF owed no explanation.  You are saying that they should have discussed this with BF.  Others are saying that the fact that BF didn't know how severe her pain was doesn't excuse the mom from knowing.  These arguments aren't all coming from the same person, so I get it.  But it seems that reasoning for those that argue that mom is all horrible and GF is all perfect are kind of all over the place.  If GF has no obligation to tell her anything, BF isn't communicating it effectively, then why expect mom to understand anything?

Yvaine

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Re: What do you all think of this?
« Reply #211 on: April 25, 2014, 11:35:39 AM »
Wondering about how permanent the injury is, what this means for her son as a possible future caretaker, how it might affect children they'd have, etc...these are legitimate concerns.

I think they're legitimate concerns to be discussed between Boyfriend and Girlfriend, but that they're not really appropriate things for the parents to be grilling Girlfriend about. It's not really their business what arrangements and discussions the two of them have made/had between them. If they're really concerned, they can address it privately with Boyfriend (which it sounds like they've also done) but I don't think that's appropriate first-meeting conversation to have with Girlfriend, at all.

I don't know...maybe.  I think that it would have been ideal for them to learn these things slowly as they got to know GF. 

Again, I don't have a disability. But my MIL did ask me several questions about my job and my travel and my basic philosophy on things like family, etc.  Sure, I discussed all these things with my DH too, but I didn't find the questioning too intrusive.  On one hand, it's her getting to know more about me and I think that there's just a natural concern that parents have for their kids...even thier adult kids.  If BF is quiet and doesn't pass on a bunch of info (which seems to be the case from both posts), then I can see the mom feeling like she can ask the more talkative GF.  On the second visit, yeah, I can agree that it's a bit much...especially since I think they should have communicated to her by then, that there are no immediate plans for marriage.  At the same time, I do think the GF owed some explanation of how her disability affects her visit.  It made a difference here, so some specific explanation would have helped.

Also, it's strange to me how some argue that the GF owed no explanation.  You are saying that they should have discussed this with BF.  Others are saying that the fact that BF didn't know how severe her pain was doesn't excuse the mom from knowing.  These arguments aren't all coming from the same person, so I get it.  But it seems that reasoning for those that argue that mom is all horrible and GF is all perfect are kind of all over the place.  If GF has no obligation to tell her anything, BF isn't communicating it effectively, then why expect mom to understand anything?

I'm saying that if they have concerns about her as a partner, for whatever reason, they can discuss it with BF, and I'd also add that there ways to do it and ways not to do it (i.e. "Have you considered xyz?" is one thing, "Girlfriend is a horrible meanie!" is another, and there are shades in between). Not that they should have grilled BF for the specific medical info.

Let me see if I can untangle your thoughts and address them. I'm not really talking (at this point) about the theoretical obligation, or not, for Girlfriend to divulge this thing or that. I'm talking about what actually happened, which was that they grilled her about it on the first visit, grilled her again on the second visit, and then even after getting lots of info from her on those two visits, still acted on the third visit like they had no idea she had pain issues. Whether Boyfriend has an oblivious streak is kind of outside the point, to me.

Dr. F.

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Re: What do you all think of this?
« Reply #212 on: April 25, 2014, 11:39:43 AM »
(Sorry, I can't figure out how to quote on my phone.)

I'm not saying the mom should have known the extent of GF's pain. I'm saying it shouldn't have mattered. The only thing that needed to be communicated was that the GF was feeling too unwell to drive home. Admittedly, I am assuming that GF or BF indicated that when permission to stay another night was sought. After all, what could Mom say? Oh, if your pain is over a 7 out of 10, you can stay, otherwise you need to get out? That's absurd, and leads to all sorts of potential foolishness ("Oh, she SAYS it's an 8, but I bet she's just milking it. It's probably no more than a 5.2.")*

In fact, it just hit me that saying GF needed to communicate why exactly she needed to stay another day strikes me as requiring JADEing. Every possible explanation can just lead to counter-arguments, etc. etc. That never ends up well.

*Note: I'm not suggesting Mom or any EHellions would say something like that. My brain just jumped to the silliest possible scenario.

Mikayla

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Re: What do you all think of this?
« Reply #213 on: April 25, 2014, 11:42:20 AM »
^ and ^^   I think it's all in the delivery.  The first time I met my MIL, she asked some very intrusive questions, but I didn't mind at all.  There was a lot of humor, she was genuinely welcoming and also seemed truly thrilled to discover some shared, slightly weird interests.  It went great.

My other very serious relationship?  I felt like Leonardo DiCaprio in that scene from Titanic where he's being grilled at the dinner table by people trying to snag an aha moment.


Yvaine

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Re: What do you all think of this?
« Reply #214 on: April 25, 2014, 11:46:07 AM »
^ and ^^   I think it's all in the delivery.  The first time I met my MIL, she asked some very intrusive questions, but I didn't mind at all.  There was a lot of humor, she was genuinely welcoming and also seemed truly thrilled to discover some shared, slightly weird interests.  It went great.

My other very serious relationship?  I felt like Leonardo DiCaprio in that scene from Titanic where he's being grilled at the dinner table by people trying to snag an aha moment.

Good points. It wasn't over disability, but I still remember getting grilled by one BF's parents who were trying to trip me up into admitting that I was just out to get pregnant, make him drop out of college to support me, and ruin his life like the shameless hussy I was.  ;D Ironically, I was actually just as academically inclined as he was, just from a poorer background.

bah12

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Re: What do you all think of this?
« Reply #215 on: April 25, 2014, 12:14:49 PM »
(Sorry, I can't figure out how to quote on my phone.)

I'm not saying the mom should have known the extent of GF's pain. I'm saying it shouldn't have mattered. The only thing that needed to be communicated was that the GF was feeling too unwell to drive home. Admittedly, I am assuming that GF or BF indicated that when permission to stay another night was sought. After all, what could Mom say? Oh, if your pain is over a 7 out of 10, you can stay, otherwise you need to get out? That's absurd, and leads to all sorts of potential foolishness ("Oh, she SAYS it's an 8, but I bet she's just milking it. It's probably no more than a 5.2.")*

In fact, it just hit me that saying GF needed to communicate why exactly she needed to stay another day strikes me as requiring JADEing. Every possible explanation can just lead to counter-arguments, etc. etc. That never ends up well.

*Note: I'm not suggesting Mom or any EHellions would say something like that. My brain just jumped to the silliest possible scenario.

I don't think we can say it doesn't matter.  THere are so many stories here of what guests ask for and most of the time posters are coming back lamenting that it's even rude to ask for something because it puts hosts in the position to have to say 'no.'   So, I can't just accept that all of a sudden, for this one scenario, it doesn't matter. 

I'm of the mind set that people can ask for pretty much anything they want, but at the same time anyone has the right to say yes or no to the request for almost any reason.  Sure, it seems awfully cruel to throw someone out when they are in severe pain.  I can't imagine throwing someone out for a stubbed toe let alone severe back pain.  But that's not the point.

The point is that the GF has a condition.  She knows she has a condition and she knows that if that condition acts up, she'll need several hours/days of bed rest.  She's staying at somoene else's house for defined period of time.  If that agreement needs to be altered at the last minute due a known condition, the polite, reasonable thing to do is say something.  To say that she isn't obligated to do so, but has every right to expect whatever accommodation she may ask for, is crazy.  And again, the only person that communicated the need to stay was a person that didn't even understand the pain.  "GF needs to rest and wants to stay".  Well, that's hardly reason enough to require the parents have to let her stay with no further explanation.  And I seriously doubt he said "GF is in severe pain and can't drive" because he didn't seem to know that...so it's ridiculous to argue that he could have said it.   Even if he said the words the OP used was "GF needs to stay one more day to recover."  I know I'd be thinking, "recover from what?"  She sat here on the couch talking to us two days ago and spent all day in bed today.  If there's no other explanation for how those things connect, people just aren't going to get it on their own.

Again, the disability is a red herring.  Because I don't think it matters for the central question...which I've asked before but no one answered. 

If you are staying with someone and you know that there's a possibility that the conditions of your stay (length of time, amount of accommodation, etc) could change (for whatever the reason may be), do you owe your hosts an explanation? If so, how far in advance (when you know for sure or when you know there's a possibility)?  And is the expectation that any explanation obligates the host to accommodate you or are there degrees, details, etc that could change that answer?

DavidH

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Re: What do you all think of this?
« Reply #216 on: April 25, 2014, 12:17:14 PM »
I think that asking to stay another night, does require some explanation, since inviting yourself to an event is rude, and extending an invitation is rude, so doing so need to be explained.  For example, if I invite you to dinner and you announce that you need to stay the night, I fully believe I'm entitled to ask why.  Depending on your answer, I may or may not be right in declining to provide the additional hospitality, but to say that any request for additional hospitality must be met with a yes is just not the case.  Perhaps it is JADEing, but then yes, you do have to JADE or you have to graciously accept a no, since a guest is not entitled to any and all hospitality they ask for. 

"I suspect they either think she can't spoil Boyfriend in the manner they think is de rigueur for a potential wife (either by making all the money or by doing all the housework) or that it revolves around really nasty speculations about sex or kids", perhaps, but I don't know that most parents expect their son to be supported by their wife.  It seems a huge leap from no you can't stay another night to this. 

As an aside, we have all taken it at face value that the GF was in crippling pain and needed to stay.  If making the leap that the parents are looking for someone to support their son is reasonable, the other possibility is that GF is an special snowflake who uses her disability to manipulate people.  After all, we have gone from sitting all day caused her pain to she took all the right precautions, got up, walked around, etc, but the day of conversation was just too much and has caused her to need at least 2-days in bed to recover. 

Yvaine

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Re: What do you all think of this?
« Reply #217 on: April 25, 2014, 12:22:57 PM »
"I suspect they either think she can't spoil Boyfriend in the manner they think is de rigueur for a potential wife (either by making all the money or by doing all the housework) or that it revolves around really nasty speculations about sex or kids", perhaps, but I don't know that most parents expect their son to be supported by their wife.  It seems a huge leap from no you can't stay another night to this. 

This speculation wasn't based on the denial of another night, but on the third degree the mother gave her during the earlier visits (and Girlfriend did answer all the questions) and, especially, the way the mother's opinion of her seemed to turn on a dime when she realized the disability was permanent. Anyway, I wish I'd never said it as it seems to have derailed the thread, and I apologize.

wolfie

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Re: What do you all think of this?
« Reply #218 on: April 25, 2014, 12:29:17 PM »
As an aside, we have all taken it at face value that the GF was in crippling pain and needed to stay.  If making the leap that the parents are looking for someone to support their son is reasonable, the other possibility is that GF is an special snowflake who uses her disability to manipulate people.  After all, we have gone from sitting all day caused her pain to she took all the right precautions, got up, walked around, etc, but the day of conversation was just too much and has caused her to need at least 2-days in bed to recover.

I currently have a backache. I have had it for a while... so far nothing I do 100% gets rid of it. If this latest round of muscle relaxants doesn't work I am off to physical therapy. I already went to the doc we determined it is just muscle spasms - no spinal issues or anything like that. I woke up one day with the pain so I must have slept funny and so I think I can get rid of it eventually. But I sit at a desk all day. And I don't get up and walk around much. And usually the pain isn't really that bad - just a twinge. But a couple of weekends ago I was on a train for 1.5 hours. And could barely get up when we arrived at the station. Must have been the chair, the way I was sitting - something was different so that I was in enormous pain sitting just 1.5 hours vs the 8 hours I do on a usual day. Could be the same for the GF. She did everything she would normally do that works but something in the env was different and it didn't work and she didn't realize until the next day.

mich3554

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Re: What do you all think of this?
« Reply #219 on: April 25, 2014, 12:30:56 PM »
As an aside, we have all taken it at face value that the GF was in crippling pain and needed to stay.  If making the leap that the parents are looking for someone to support their son is reasonable, the other possibility is that GF is an special snowflake who uses her disability to manipulate people.  After all, we have gone from sitting all day caused her pain to she took all the right precautions, got up, walked around, etc, but the day of conversation was just too much and has caused her to need at least 2-days in bed to recover.

And this is the attitude that most of us with disabilities are fighting tooth and nail.  Those of us who DO have disabilities try our damnedest to not let our disabilities to interfere with normal life.  However, carp happens and as I have said repeatedly, while I can pretty well predict what I can and cannot do when I am in my own environment, I cannot guarantee you what will happen if I sleep in a different bed, or sit in a different chair.  I try to choose the type of chair/seat that causes me the least problem but sometimes there is little to choose from.  I can give you at least 2 other hotels that I will not reserve at any more, as their beds cause me to ache unbearably (requiring meds) the following day.

The automatic assumption is that the GF is a special snowflake who uses her disability to manipulate people.  Lemme see.....the GF is a tax paying member of society who owns her own house (unlike her BF who does not even live on his own).  I would hazard a guess that if she has this ability to exist ON HER OWN, then she is most definitely NOT a special snowflake.  The fact that she is asking what else she could have done to smooth things with her BF's parents makes her cognizant of how else she could have helped explain things better.  IMO, it was a losing battle.  There was NOTHING she could have done.  Once the GF told the parent that she would never have surgery because it wouldn't make her better, they had made their decision that this was not the girl for their son.

I am literally living that woman's life.  There are a few differences between me and her.  I was not disabled when I met his parents, and I was very much welcome in their house.  However, the attitude has done a 180 with the realization that I will never be what I was.

DavidH

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Re: What do you all think of this?
« Reply #220 on: April 25, 2014, 12:42:35 PM »
I am in no way saying all people with disabilities use them to manipulate people and it is not the automatic assumption as can be seen simply by reading the replies to his thread.  On the other hand it is another possibility and every bit as likely as the parents were looking for someone to support their son or do all the housework.

To the original question, what could she have done to better explain herself, the easiest answer is she could have asked them if she could spend another night because she was in pain, rather than having her BF do it for her.  Alternatively, she could have better communicated to her BF how much pain she was in, since he was unaware of it and thus could not have properly communicated it to his parents. 

bah12

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Re: What do you all think of this?
« Reply #221 on: April 25, 2014, 12:43:10 PM »
I've been trying to think of the best way to say this because it can so easily get misinterpreted.  I'll try my best.

I think that some of you are focusing too much on disability and pushing prejudices on people that don't necessarily exist.  I have no doubt that your pain is often misunderstood. I know that I'm having a hard time understanding it, so I don't deny that living with both a disability and people's sometimes cruel misguidance of that disability is extremely difficult.  I'm sorry that any of you have to deal with it. 

What I believe DavidH was saying was not the GF is a special snowflake, but pointing out that if you think it's reasonable to assume that just because the mom doesn't seem to like the GF is because she wants a woman that is going to financially support her son, then it would also be reasonable to make the leap that the GF is just faking the whole thing and milking as much sympathy as she can get.

Both of those leaps are unreasonable and certainly unkind.  You are asking us to understand the GF's POV.  I believe I do.  I feel really bad for her situation.  But, I'm asking that the understanding goes both ways.  Look past the disability, and discuss the real issue...which is all centered around communciation and expectations and what should and shouldn't be communicated and what should and shouldn't be exptected.

Kaymar

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Re: What do you all think of this?
« Reply #222 on: April 25, 2014, 12:43:58 PM »

The automatic assumption is that the GF is a special snowflake who uses her disability to manipulate people.  Lemme see.....the GF is a tax paying member of society who owns her own house (unlike her BF who does not even live on his own).  I would hazard a guess that if she has this ability to exist ON HER OWN, then she is most definitely NOT a special snowflake.  The fact that she is asking what else she could have done to smooth things with her BF's parents makes her cognizant of how else she could have helped explain things better.   IMO, it was a losing battle.  There was NOTHING she could have done.  Once the GF told the parent that she would never have surgery because it wouldn't make her better, they had made their decision that this was not the girl for their son.

I am literally living that woman's life.  There are a few differences between me and her.  I was not disabled when I met his parents, and I was very much welcome in their house.  However, the attitude has done a 180 with the realization that I will never be what I was.

The OP merely asks "who was rude"?  I don't see the OP or the GF (I have no idea if the OP is the GF) asking how the GF could have handled things better, unless I missed something.

mich3554

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Re: What do you all think of this?
« Reply #223 on: April 25, 2014, 12:45:03 PM »
To the original question, what could she have done to better explain herself, the easiest answer is she could have asked them if she could spend another night because she was in pain, rather than having her BF do it for her.  Alternatively, she could have better communicated to her BF how much pain she was in, since he was unaware of it and thus could not have properly communicated it to his parents.

The answer is NOTHING.

The parents had made their decision about the girl when they only reluctantly invited them into their home when they realized that their son would not attend without his g/f.

mich3554

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Re: What do you all think of this?
« Reply #224 on: April 25, 2014, 12:47:57 PM »

The automatic assumption is that the GF is a special snowflake who uses her disability to manipulate people.  Lemme see.....the GF is a tax paying member of society who owns her own house (unlike her BF who does not even live on his own).  I would hazard a guess that if she has this ability to exist ON HER OWN, then she is most definitely NOT a special snowflake.  The fact that she is asking what else she could have done to smooth things with her BF's parents makes her cognizant of how else she could have helped explain things better.   IMO, it was a losing battle.  There was NOTHING she could have done.  Once the GF told the parent that she would never have surgery because it wouldn't make her better, they had made their decision that this was not the girl for their son.

I am literally living that woman's life.  There are a few differences between me and her.  I was not disabled when I met his parents, and I was very much welcome in their house.  However, the attitude has done a 180 with the realization that I will never be what I was.

The OP merely asks "who was rude"?  I don't see the OP or the GF (I have no idea if the OP is the GF) asking how the GF could have handled things better, unless I missed something.

Check out post #47

This thread came into being because GF was wondering what on earth she did to deserve this kind of reaction from BFs parents and wanted to know if shed somehow behaved terribly and not realised it. Moving forwards, now BF is aware of how things stand with his parents he plans to be a lot more proactive in looking out for GFs interests in any future interaction.