Author Topic: The Unwanted Second-Hand Invitee  (Read 5369 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

lakey

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 302
Re: The Unwanted Second-Hand Invitee
« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2014, 11:09:49 PM »
I don't think you want to create a scene at someone else's party. That thing she does where she acts all friendly with your sister after cheating her out of over $1000 would stick in my craw. I believe in being direct and honest, so I don't think there would be anything wrong with your telling her in private that since she cheated your sister, the least she can do is to stop putting on the phony friend act and give your sister a wide berth.

I do believe that when people behave badly it needs to be pointed out to them. If she doesn't take the hint and continues to hug your sister, your sister could always oops, accidentally step on her foot. Just kidding.

doodlemor

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2146
Re: The Unwanted Second-Hand Invitee
« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2014, 11:47:23 PM »
I suspect that this advice is not etiquette approved, but here goes.

Perhaps your sister should start asking C for the $$$$ back each and every time that she encounters her at a social event.  She could ask about a lump sum, or a payment plan.  This would be done quietly and out of the hearing of others so as not to disrupt the party and make others uncomfortable.  For example, she could whisper in C's ear when C tries to cozy up to her.

Maybe C would get tired of being nagged, and stop coming to events.

purple

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 386
Re: The Unwanted Second-Hand Invitee
« Reply #17 on: April 30, 2014, 12:40:24 AM »
When I am a guest, I donít suppose there is anything that I can say or do to make her not want to attend? For hosts who are a bit more laid back and donít invite her but also donít make it clear that sheís not invited when the above occurs, is there any way to say that she and I are on a mutually exclusive guest list? To what extent (if any) can I make my wish for her to not be seen or heard by me (she is also loud!) clear, if at all?  If this were one event, I would totally just suck it up, but this represents a significant portion of our social life. I donít wish to be ďmeanĒ or the bad guy. Is that an impossible situation? Is there a tactic to be used jointly by my sister and I which could achieve these ends? (If, perhaps I were to put on my protective big-sister hat and say to hosts, without mentioning gossipy details that there was not merely a falling out, but that C had injured my sister, and she -and by extension I and our SOís- do not wish to associate with her?)

To answer your questions directly:
There is a lot you can do or say to make her not want to attend...but all of them will be rude.  You are a guest and as long as the host allows her to attend his event, the only choice you have is whether or not you choose to attend knowing that.

I'm not sure what you mean about being on a mutually exclusive guest list.  If you're asking whether or not it would be ok to ask your friends not to invite both of you to the same event, my answer is 'no.'  You are an adult and I think perfectly capable of managing your own relationships without help or interference from your friends.  Again, if you don't want to be at the same event as she is, then it's up to you to decline the invitation. 

I also don't understand what kind of request you can make (and to whom) that you never have to see or hear from her.  You don't like her. I get it.  But if you can't stand being around her at all, you need to take steps to avoid her.  It's not ok to drag others into it.  And I do think that you need to be prepared for how you will act around her and react to her when you do see her, because it sounds like she socializes in your same circle and 100% avoidance may not be possible.  And I don't think ganging up on her with your sister is good form either.

My advice is this:  It's fine not to like her, but assuming that she is dating your friend (I'd be careful about accusing them of an affair though...that's  a huge accusation to make), you have some choices. Either stop socializing with him or learn how to deal with her.  You can also certainly choose not to go to any party that she's invited to, but I don't think that hurts anyone but you.  If you know that there's no way you can deal with her, then for your own sake, that may be the best choice, but I would encourage you to figure out how to be in the same space as her and how you'll react to her in a way that doesn't cause drama if you want to keep your same set of friends.  I wouldn't worry too much if she does something to cause drama...that's on her.  Don't let her drag you down too.

I agree with this and I would also add that if/when you do decide to decline an invitation when you know she will be there, make another polite excuse or don't give any excuse - a polite decline with no reason given is not rude.

Also, be careful about the accusations.  I am a female with lots of male friends (and a total of 2 female friends).  I spend lots of time with my male friends with and without my husband and their SO's.  Yes, we go on weekend trips together sometimes - just me and 4 or 5 or 6 of them to participate in a sport/hobby that we all enjoy - and no SO's are present.  At various times, a single male person will park his car outside my house when my husband is away travelling with his job and the person will stay for hours sometimes, late at night, midday, early morning or whatever.  Sometimes we'll grab our dogs, go walking downtown, have lunch together and then walk home and spend hours longer talking or watching TV together or something.  If somebody wanted to make assumptions based on what they could see from the outside, they may very well jump to the conclusions that you have here.  But. They. Would. Be. Wrong.

perpetua

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1856
Re: The Unwanted Second-Hand Invitee
« Reply #18 on: April 30, 2014, 04:37:40 AM »
You don't know for certain that they are having an affair...you just think they do based on observations of their behavior. Therefore, there is no reason at all for to refrain from saying, every time you see them, "B! How good to see you. Hey, how is your wife? We really need to get together sometime, just us couples and do something." or "I saw X at a store that made me think of your wife! She is just such a lovely woman. You really are lucky to have her! Why don't you ever bring her along to these get togethers! We all just love her so much and wish she would come out with us more!"

Quite frankly I think B and C are both horrible people. Cheaters, and those that willingly get involved with cheaters, are both beneath contempt.

OP, please don't do this. You have absolutely no idea of the relationship between B and his wife, if there even is one at all. For all you know they've separated and are still living in the same house, or they have an open relationship, or or or, and C is a legitimate partner. Assuming she's some kind of terrible adulterer when you have no idea of the full story is just not fair and to put her in this position of bigging up the (possibly ex) wife in front of her would be terrible.

nayberry

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 720
Re: The Unwanted Second-Hand Invitee
« Reply #19 on: April 30, 2014, 11:13:45 AM »

When I am a guest, I donít suppose there is anything that I can say or do to make her not want to attend? For hosts who are a bit more laid back and donít invite her but also donít make it clear that sheís not invited when the above occurs, is there any way to say that she and I are on a mutually exclusive guest list?

First, you have my sympathies.  She sounds awful.  (Who doesn't get sarcastic humor?!)

But I think your logic starts to go a little south here and you may end up with some unintended consequences.  The good news is it sounds like things are trending in your "direction", but not everyone will be on your exact timetable.   If you try to tell a host of an upcoming event that C and you are on a mutually exclusive guest list, you could easily put this person in a really tough spot.   You're asking them to choose between you and B. 

I also think it could be a mistake to try to join forces with your sister.  All of you are adults and any host/hostess is free to set any guest list they want.  When it's your turn, you can decide on your own if you'd rather exclude B altogether, or invite him but just make it clear C isn't welcome in your home.

So I think it's better to lead by example rather than force the issue.  If most people don't like her, it sounds like it's inevitable she won't last too long.


dr sheldon cooper for one ;)   i knew some engineers and it would take about 5 minutes for one of them to get a joke, seriously!  he was very spock like in his thinking.

OP, i think your options are limited,  you can ignore c if she is at an event, you can certainly not invite her or b to your events,  you can't tell other people that they can't invite her.  and if b is adding her on its up to the host of each event to deal with that.

TootsNYC

  • A Pillar of the Forum
  • *****
  • Posts: 30461
Re: The Unwanted Second-Hand Invitee
« Reply #20 on: April 30, 2014, 11:29:24 AM »
I suspect that this advice is not etiquette approved, but here goes.

Perhaps your sister should start asking C for the $$$$ back each and every time that she encounters her at a social event.  She could ask about a lump sum, or a payment plan.  This would be done quietly and out of the hearing of others so as not to disrupt the party and make others uncomfortable.  For example, she could whisper in C's ear when C tries to cozy up to her.

Maybe C would get tired of being nagged, and stop coming to events.

Or at the very least, she'd leave your sister alone.

I don't actually think it needs to be whispered. I'd just start bringing it up at a regular conversational volume. Maybe even initiate the conversation--walk up to her and say, "Oh, hi, C, and Other Person. Sorry to interrupt, but I wanted to ask--you owe me $2,780 from that project where you borrowed it two years ago. I've been waiting, can you give me some of it back now? I can write you out a receipt."

Then everybody will know she owes your sister money for years. That's actually an appropriate piece of info for people to know, and it's completely factual.

SamiHami

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3125
  • No! Iz mai catnip! You no can haz! YOU NO CAN HAZ!
Re: The Unwanted Second-Hand Invitee
« Reply #21 on: April 30, 2014, 11:58:21 AM »
You don't know for certain that they are having an affair...you just think they do based on observations of their behavior. Therefore, there is no reason at all for to refrain from saying, every time you see them, "B! How good to see you. Hey, how is your wife? We really need to get together sometime, just us couples and do something." or "I saw X at a store that made me think of your wife! She is just such a lovely woman. You really are lucky to have her! Why don't you ever bring her along to these get togethers! We all just love her so much and wish she would come out with us more!"

Quite frankly I think B and C are both horrible people. Cheaters, and those that willingly get involved with cheaters, are both beneath contempt.

OP, please don't do this. You have absolutely no idea of the relationship between B and his wife, if there even is one at all. For all you know they've separated and are still living in the same house, or they have an open relationship, or or or, and C is a legitimate partner. Assuming she's some kind of terrible adulterer when you have no idea of the full story is just not fair and to put her in this position of bigging up the (possibly ex) wife in front of her would be terrible.

Because B is married and his wife is known to the group, the only polite thing to do is assume that C is a platonic friend that the wife knows about and approves of. It would be very rude to assume that B is a cheater. The fact that B is married makes it impossible for C to be a legitimate partner. Asking a person about their spouse is not "bigging up" anything. It's a perfectly polite and friendly thing to do. The only ones who would have a problem with it would be the ones with a guilty conscience.

We cannot assume that they have an open marriage or any of the other scenarios you suggested. Until B makes information to the contrary public, people have to assume that everything is fine.

If they are just friends and no cheating is occurring, then no one will feel uncomfortable. If they are cheating, then they probably will-and should.

There's not a reason in the world why OP shouldn't ask after his wife, since she is his only legitimate partner.


What have you got? Is it food? Is it for me? I want it whatever it is!

perpetua

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1856
Re: The Unwanted Second-Hand Invitee
« Reply #22 on: April 30, 2014, 12:40:53 PM »
You don't know for certain that they are having an affair...you just think they do based on observations of their behavior. Therefore, there is no reason at all for to refrain from saying, every time you see them, "B! How good to see you. Hey, how is your wife? We really need to get together sometime, just us couples and do something." or "I saw X at a store that made me think of your wife! She is just such a lovely woman. You really are lucky to have her! Why don't you ever bring her along to these get togethers! We all just love her so much and wish she would come out with us more!"

Quite frankly I think B and C are both horrible people. Cheaters, and those that willingly get involved with cheaters, are both beneath contempt.

OP, please don't do this. You have absolutely no idea of the relationship between B and his wife, if there even is one at all. For all you know they've separated and are still living in the same house, or they have an open relationship, or or or, and C is a legitimate partner. Assuming she's some kind of terrible adulterer when you have no idea of the full story is just not fair and to put her in this position of bigging up the (possibly ex) wife in front of her would be terrible.

Because B is married and his wife is known to the group, the only polite thing to do is assume that C is a platonic friend that the wife knows about and approves of. It would be very rude to assume that B is a cheater. The fact that B is married makes it impossible for C to be a legitimate partner. Asking a person about their spouse is not "bigging up" anything. It's a perfectly polite and friendly thing to do. The only ones who would have a problem with it would be the ones with a guilty conscience.

We cannot assume that they have an open marriage or any of the other scenarios you suggested. Until B makes information to the contrary public, people have to assume that everything is fine.

If they are just friends and no cheating is occurring, then no one will feel uncomfortable. If they are cheating, then they probably will-and should.

There's not a reason in the world why OP shouldn't ask after his wife, since she is his only legitimate partner.

I disagree. Equally, you can not assume that any of those scenarios are *not* the case. Because you just don't know.

SamiHami

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3125
  • No! Iz mai catnip! You no can haz! YOU NO CAN HAZ!
Re: The Unwanted Second-Hand Invitee
« Reply #23 on: April 30, 2014, 03:24:16 PM »
You don't know for certain that they are having an affair...you just think they do based on observations of their behavior. Therefore, there is no reason at all for to refrain from saying, every time you see them, "B! How good to see you. Hey, how is your wife? We really need to get together sometime, just us couples and do something." or "I saw X at a store that made me think of your wife! She is just such a lovely woman. You really are lucky to have her! Why don't you ever bring her along to these get togethers! We all just love her so much and wish she would come out with us more!"

Quite frankly I think B and C are both horrible people. Cheaters, and those that willingly get involved with cheaters, are both beneath contempt.

OP, please don't do this. You have absolutely no idea of the relationship between B and his wife, if there even is one at all. For all you know they've separated and are still living in the same house, or they have an open relationship, or or or, and C is a legitimate partner. Assuming she's some kind of terrible adulterer when you have no idea of the full story is just not fair and to put her in this position of bigging up the (possibly ex) wife in front of her would be terrible.

Because B is married and his wife is known to the group, the only polite thing to do is assume that C is a platonic friend that the wife knows about and approves of. It would be very rude to assume that B is a cheater. The fact that B is married makes it impossible for C to be a legitimate partner. Asking a person about their spouse is not "bigging up" anything. It's a perfectly polite and friendly thing to do. The only ones who would have a problem with it would be the ones with a guilty conscience.

We cannot assume that they have an open marriage or any of the other scenarios you suggested. Until B makes information to the contrary public, people have to assume that everything is fine.

If they are just friends and no cheating is occurring, then no one will feel uncomfortable. If they are cheating, then they probably will-and should.

There's not a reason in the world why OP shouldn't ask after his wife, since she is his only legitimate partner.

I disagree. Equally, you can not assume that any of those scenarios are *not* the case. Because you just don't know.

Yes, you can (and should) assume they are not the case. As far as anyone knows (from the info we are given) B and his wife are married and have not announced anything to the contrary. Therefore the only polite thing to do is to assume that their marriage is intact.

What have you got? Is it food? Is it for me? I want it whatever it is!

Tea Drinker

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1309
Re: The Unwanted Second-Hand Invitee
« Reply #24 on: April 30, 2014, 04:07:02 PM »
I agree: unless you have information to the contrary, either C is a platonic friend who you don't happen to care for, or B's wife is okay with whatever other relationship B and C do have. By all means invite B's wife to things--not just as a vague dig at him always bringing C, but directly, if you actually want to see her. Get in touch with her and say that you'd like to see her, and you know she doesn't like these large group things, so how about brunch sometime? Or dinner at your house, just her and her husband. Or send a similar invitation to B, specifically for the two of them.

There are multiple things going on here: even if B's wife came to some of these events and was clearly friendly with C, you still wouldn't like C or want to spend time with her, for other reasons. So I'd ignore the question of whether B and C are also having a relationship you disapprove of, because even being sure they aren't wouldn't make you want C around.
Any advice that requires the use of a time machine may safely be ignored.

katycoo

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3732
Re: The Unwanted Second-Hand Invitee
« Reply #25 on: April 30, 2014, 05:06:37 PM »
You don't know for certain that they are having an affair...you just think they do based on observations of their behavior. Therefore, there is no reason at all for to refrain from saying, every time you see them, "B! How good to see you. Hey, how is your wife? We really need to get together sometime, just us couples and do something." or "I saw X at a store that made me think of your wife! She is just such a lovely woman. You really are lucky to have her! Why don't you ever bring her along to these get togethers! We all just love her so much and wish she would come out with us more!"

Quite frankly I think B and C are both horrible people. Cheaters, and those that willingly get involved with cheaters, are both beneath contempt.

OP, please don't do this. You have absolutely no idea of the relationship between B and his wife, if there even is one at all. For all you know they've separated and are still living in the same house, or they have an open relationship, or or or, and C is a legitimate partner. Assuming she's some kind of terrible adulterer when you have no idea of the full story is just not fair and to put her in this position of bigging up the (possibly ex) wife in front of her would be terrible.

Because B is married and his wife is known to the group, the only polite thing to do is assume that C is a platonic friend that the wife knows about and approves of. It would be very rude to assume that B is a cheater. The fact that B is married makes it impossible for C to be a legitimate partner. Asking a person about their spouse is not "bigging up" anything. It's a perfectly polite and friendly thing to do. The only ones who would have a problem with it would be the ones with a guilty conscience.

We cannot assume that they have an open marriage or any of the other scenarios you suggested. Until B makes information to the contrary public, people have to assume that everything is fine.

If they are just friends and no cheating is occurring, then no one will feel uncomfortable. If they are cheating, then they probably will-and should.

There's not a reason in the world why OP shouldn't ask after his wife, since she is his only legitimate partner.

I disagree. Equally, you can not assume that any of those scenarios are *not* the case. Because you just don't know.

Yes, you can (and should) assume they are not the case. As far as anyone knows (from the info we are given) B and his wife are married and have not announced anything to the contrary. Therefore the only polite thing to do is to assume that their marriage is intact.

I agree -and that also means assume he is NOT having an affair.

I wouldn't actively avoid mentioning the wife, but I certainly wouldn't do it intentionally and effusively to prove a point.  If they have separated it could be very awkward.

I would continue invite the wife, and  if necessary, take B aside and let him know that while you assume it was an accident, you were wuite put on the spot when he invited C of his own accord, and please not to do that in future.  He can then spell out any special circumstance he wishes to share.

Danika

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1917
  • I'm not speeding. I'm qualifying.
Re: The Unwanted Second-Hand Invitee
« Reply #26 on: April 30, 2014, 06:11:17 PM »
Now, I'm wondering the following. Let's say that A does not like C. And he does not appreciate that B invited C, and put C on the "To:" line of the email instead of just asking A privately if he could add C to the guest list. What should A do? Should he email B privately and say "I did not invite C. Please, rescind the invitation. She is not welcome at my event"? And let's say that A suspects that others don't like C and that's why they might RSVP "no", how would A communicate that to everyone else? Should he email everyone privately and say "In the future, if you reply to all, please, ensure that C's name is not on the 'To:' line because she is not invited"? Or should he say nothing publicly and just let most of the people RSVP no and then he just has a tiny little gathering? Or should he cancel it outright, and then issue a new invitation (maybe for a different date to present the illusion that a date conflict is why he canceled the first gathering) to everyone except C? And except B?

Arila

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 673
Re: The Unwanted Second-Hand Invitee
« Reply #27 on: April 30, 2014, 06:49:28 PM »
You know, I had typed out a long list of suspicious observations about this couple which have lead to my conclusions about the status of B's relationships. Purple, they go way beyond what you have described. I also work in a male dominated industry and have male dominated hobbies, so I get that there isn't always gender segregation, and I don't immediately leap to the conclusion of affair just because mixed genders get together.  I have also been doubtful of the impartiality of other posters, so I get that too.

I already feel a bit uncomfortable about the amount of data that I have shared at this point, so I will summarize on the topic of the "affair" (if there is one). There is a surplus of suspicious observations of the couple. I'm declining to list them all, but when I started, I got up to 12 with more to come...I will concede that they have never kissed or touched in front of me (but neither has my sister and her bf - PDA isn't done in our group). I will also say that my sister's BF is B's close friend. When BF questioned him about what was going on with C, B's response was "I don't talk about that" If there was nothing going on, why not deny?


Anyway, putting the affair issue completely aside. I think it is at minimum fair to say that B and C are not an established or announced couple (married, engaged, living together). They are not a social unit. They are not afforded the privilege of assuming that each is included/has the right to be included in invitations to the other to social events.  B responding to invitations where only he is included  with "C and I" is not in any way sanctioned.

We would probably have tripped happily over and moved on from that faux pas if we liked C better. 


Now, I'm wondering the following. Let's say that A does not like C. And he does not appreciate that B invited C, and put C on the "To:" line of the email instead of just asking A privately if he could add C to the guest list. What should A do? Should he email B privately and say "I did not invite C. Please, rescind the invitation. She is not welcome at my event"? And let's say that A suspects that others don't like C and that's why they might RSVP "no", how would A communicate that to everyone else? Should he email everyone privately and say "In the future, if you reply to all, please, ensure that C's name is not on the 'To:' line because she is not invited"? Or should he say nothing publicly and just let most of the people RSVP no and then he just has a tiny little gathering? Or should he cancel it outright, and then issue a new invitation (maybe for a different date to present the illusion that a date conflict is why he canceled the first gathering) to everyone except C? And except B?
Actually, the second scenario happened just a couple of weeks ago. B responded affirmatively as "C and I" and added her to the To: line quite early. And...every subsequent RSVP was no. I am a little more interested in how you all think A should respond.

TootsNYC

  • A Pillar of the Forum
  • *****
  • Posts: 30461
Re: The Unwanted Second-Hand Invitee
« Reply #28 on: April 30, 2014, 07:02:41 PM »
Then I think A should do what Danika suggested: Respond privately to B and say, "I did not invite C, you will need to rescind the invitation, and you may not bring her. You may not invite people to an event I am hosting, you are not the host. If you want to determine the guest list, you will need to host your own event. I will understand if you decide not to attend yourself."

And then reply individually to all the people who said no, and say, "Bummer! I'll miss you. Oh, by the way, C will not be attending after all; I alerted B that since I hadn't invited her directly, he could not bring her along. I don't know if he's coming now either. Let me know if your plans change."


Danika

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1917
  • I'm not speeding. I'm qualifying.
Re: The Unwanted Second-Hand Invitee
« Reply #29 on: April 30, 2014, 07:47:53 PM »
Then I think A should do what Danika suggested: Respond privately to B and say, "I did not invite C, you will need to rescind the invitation, and you may not bring her. You may not invite people to an event I am hosting, you are not the host. If you want to determine the guest list, you will need to host your own event. I will understand if you decide not to attend yourself."

And then reply individually to all the people who said no, and say, "Bummer! I'll miss you. Oh, by the way, C will not be attending after all; I alerted B that since I hadn't invited her directly, he could not bring her along. I don't know if he's coming now either. Let me know if your plans change."

I agree. I like Toots's suggestion.

I was thinking that were I in A's shoes, I would do exactly that. Or I might not invite B again either. I would tell B not to invite people who aren't on my guest list, and also add that since everyone RSVPed no, clearly, the event is off.

Then I might wait a couple of days and create a new event, same guest list minus B, and start again, perhaps on a different date so that it's not too obvious what transpired.

But comparing what I was thinking to what Toots suggested, I think maybe Toots' suggestion is a little less drama-inducing.