Author Topic: Family Welfare vs. Honoring One's Word  (Read 6131 times)

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sweetonsno

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Re: Family Welfare vs. Honoring One's Word
« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2014, 06:37:04 PM »
In terms of etiquette, "something better came along" is typically not considered a justifiable reason to cancel plans. That said, sometimes we have to sacrifice one thing for another.

JoieGirl7

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Re: Family Welfare vs. Honoring One's Word
« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2014, 10:57:07 PM »
I don't think there was anything wrong with what you did.  You were the one who asked for the extra time anyway.  That was on your side of the balance sheet for agreeing to stay on through the holidays so I think they should have sucked it up and not complained.

You gave up something you asked to have promised to you not something you promised to them.  I dont see how theis left them in the lurch.

Otterpop

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Re: Family Welfare vs. Honoring One's Word
« Reply #17 on: May 07, 2014, 12:41:53 AM »
You gave them 3 months more time than your contract required.  They should be able to cut you some slack for missing the last week.  They are unreasonable and their lack of planning for your departure is not your problem.  You've been accommodating enough.

(Seriously, a required 45 day notice would make most other employers pass on hiring you.  Is that their plan?  To make you unemployable anywhere else?)
« Last Edit: May 07, 2014, 12:58:09 AM by Otterpop »

sammycat

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Re: Family Welfare vs. Honoring One's Word
« Reply #18 on: May 07, 2014, 03:01:43 AM »
You gave them 3 months more time than your contract required.  They should be able to cut you some slack for missing the last week.  They are unreasonable and their lack of planning for your departure is not your problem.  You've been accommodating enough.

(Seriously, a required 45 day notice would make most other employers pass on hiring you.  Is that their plan?  To make you unemployable anywhere else?)

That's what I'm thinking too.

From the OP: However, for about 25 of those days, my resignation had been unattended to because my boss was in and out of the country, tending to a sudden severe illness (we had to wait for him to give a go-signal on whether or not my resignation would be accepted

I fail to see how that's your problem. It's unfortunate for the boss that he had this personal issue, but it really should have had no bearing on when your 45 days started. What if, at the end of the 45 days, you were planning on moving from the area. Were you supposed to delay your move?

I was willing to stay even if they changed nothing

I have to admit to being rather confused by this comment. Why resign if you were apparently happy with the way things were?

Margo

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Re: Family Welfare vs. Honoring One's Word
« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2014, 05:21:46 AM »
off topic, is a 45 day notice period so unusual? In my industry 3 months notice is standard, and it is similar for a lot of professional jobs here (UK) although shorter periods are common for other types of work.

In relation to the OP, I don't think it was unreasonable for you to leave a week early, but equally I don't think it was unreasonable for the employer to be annoyed as while the original extension to Feb was at your request, they presumably then timed the hiring of the new person to mesh with your planned departure date.

I thin there comes a point where you need to put yourself first, so I think you were right to move to the new job, but I can understand why your former employer was not happy about it.

Free Range Hippy Chick

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Re: Family Welfare vs. Honoring One's Word
« Reply #20 on: May 07, 2014, 05:57:42 AM »
I agree with Margo. I actually think all the stuff about 45 days and whether or not they processed your resignation and so on is irrelevant. At that stage you would have been entitled to be annoyed about it, and frankly if you had left on day 45, even if they weren't ready, you would have been fine. In my opinion, your notice period starts from when your resignation is submitted and received. If you gave it in on the 31st, it's not your problem if nobody did anything about it for 3 weeks. They can't refuse to start counting on the basis of 'lalalala I'm not reading my mail!'

However, once negotiations were opened, that becomes irrelevant. You agreed to stay until the end of February. If I were your employer, I would have treated that as a new contract, de facto if not de jure, and I would have expected you to honour it, and been put out that you didn't. It doesn't matter that February was your chosen date and not theirs. You committed to the end of February and possibly they had plans to use you - to get their money's worth, if you like - all the way to the end of the month.

I understand why you didn't stay - I think we all do - and I can see somebody in this position asking to be released from the last week or two weeks of work. From an employer's point of view, though? I would let somebody go, for goodwill, if it wasn't going to inconvenience me, and in point of fact, I can't stop you going. I can't force you to come in. But if I said no, I needed you to work to the end of the period you yourself had negotiated, and I had planned on, and you insisted on leaving, I wouldn't be impressed and if I was asked for a reference later, the word 'reliability' wouldn't appear in it.

Corvid

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Re: Family Welfare vs. Honoring One's Word
« Reply #21 on: May 07, 2014, 06:24:46 AM »
Had you trained your replacement yet?  In what way did your leaving early inconvenience them?  Are there likely to be professional repercussions later down the line?

I'm sorry, but I'm going to lean in the opposite direction than most of the previous posters.  The job market where I live, in the U.S., is poor.  If someone needs a new job and finds a new job, they're probably better off taking it.  If the previous employer has had several months to prepare for that person's departure, two weeks shouldn't make that much of a difference and if it does, the previous employer has planned poorly.  The OP has to put bread on the table and sometimes a person has to be practical.

ClaireC79

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Re: Family Welfare vs. Honoring One's Word
« Reply #22 on: May 07, 2014, 06:35:12 AM »
I can see why you did it, I can also see why they are annoyed.

The end date was negotiated by both of you, in the additional period which you had requested you then left them in the lurch

Also agree with FreeRangeHippyChick, the bit at the beginning about whether or not to accept your resignation isn't relevant - they don't get o chose whether or not to accept it, you sent it in and it holds true (and presumable you wrote in there your last day of work would be X - you could have left on that date whether they chose to accept it or not) then you said you would only stay if they extended to the new date


sarahmacalalad

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Re: Family Welfare vs. Honoring One's Word
« Reply #23 on: May 07, 2014, 06:43:49 AM »
Thanks all for the helpful responses! TBH, yeah I knew what I was doing was in poor form etiquette-wise (I think Free Range Hippy Chick hit in on the head best) but I feel better to hear some support in my decision.

Just so there's no confusion, let me clarify the timing.
  • I put in my resignation mid-October. I should have stayed until end of Nov as per 45-day notice policy (30 days is the standard where I live, but since I was middle-management the company demands 45 days).
  • I find out my resignation is a go mid-November (if they had asked me to stay, I would have. but they didn't, so go I went), but company hasn't prepped for it. They ask for a start of January extension; I say end of February.
  • Replacement is internal and a friend, so I teach her here and there, but her official training (and other related trainings, transfers, and promotions) is planned for February.
  • Last week of January, I get the job. I tell my boss immediately (three weeks before the new end date and five weeks before the old end date).

The missing two weeks was difficult for the company because of the volume of work and numerous changes that needed to be done both because of my resignation and because of other reasons. Basically, I threw off their planning by rescheduling my last day.

Hope that clarified things up.

I did say the issue had already been resolved. To let you know how, I basically negotiated with both sides that I come in for the first half of the day in old job and the second half the day for the new job. Commuting between both jobs was a pain and I had to do my workload in half the time than usual, but now, I'm happy at my new job, with the other one long behind.

Thanks for the opinions! :)

perpetua

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Re: Family Welfare vs. Honoring One's Word
« Reply #24 on: May 07, 2014, 07:00:54 AM »
I don't understand this. They asked you to stay until the start of January? That's all they asked? Then you said you would stay to the end of February? Why didn't you leave at the beginning of January, then none of this would have come up? It sounds to me like you wanted it both ways, to be honest: you didn't have a job lined up so asked to stay until the end of February for your own needs, then left them in the lurch when a job came up earlier than anticipated. I wouldn't be impressed either.

Perhaps I'm reading it wrong, I don't know.

TootsNYC

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Re: Family Welfare vs. Honoring One's Word
« Reply #25 on: May 07, 2014, 08:55:57 AM »
In terms of etiquette, "something better came along" is typically not considered a justifiable reason to cancel plans. That said, sometimes we have to sacrifice one thing for another.

This is social etiquette, not business etiquette.

Business etiquette has absolutely no such requirement.
It's very important to keep the two separate.


wolfie

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Re: Family Welfare vs. Honoring One's Word
« Reply #26 on: May 07, 2014, 08:57:32 AM »
Thanks all for the helpful responses! TBH, yeah I knew what I was doing was in poor form etiquette-wise (I think Free Range Hippy Chick hit in on the head best) but I feel better to hear some support in my decision.

Just so there's no confusion, let me clarify the timing.
  • I put in my resignation mid-October. I should have stayed until end of Nov as per 45-day notice policy (30 days is the standard where I live, but since I was middle-management the company demands 45 days).
  • I find out my resignation is a go mid-November (if they had asked me to stay, I would have. but they didn't, so go I went), but company hasn't prepped for it. They ask for a start of January extension; I say end of February.
  • Replacement is internal and a friend, so I teach her here and there, but her official training (and other related trainings, transfers, and promotions) is planned for February.
  • Last week of January, I get the job. I tell my boss immediately (three weeks before the new end date and five weeks before the old end date).

The missing two weeks was difficult for the company because of the volume of work and numerous changes that needed to be done both because of my resignation and because of other reasons. Basically, I threw off their planning by rescheduling my last day.

Hope that clarified things up.

I did say the issue had already been resolved. To let you know how, I basically negotiated with both sides that I come in for the first half of the day in old job and the second half the day for the new job. Commuting between both jobs was a pain and I had to do my workload in half the time than usual, but now, I'm happy at my new job, with the other one long behind.

Thanks for the opinions! :)

That makes it worse for me. Because you didn't just leave a few weeks early but hey no one really needed you then anyway. You planned all your heavy lifting for that time period and then just planned to leave instead of doing it. If I was your old employer I really wouldn't be impressed.

learningtofly

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Re: Family Welfare vs. Honoring One's Word
« Reply #27 on: May 07, 2014, 09:07:06 AM »
You needed to do what was right for you.  And in the end you made a compromise that accomidated both old and new employers.  We just had someone leave us in the lurch, but it was right for him.  As the one picking up some of the slack I miss him, but respect that he had to do what was right for him.  Do I think he'll get a good reference, probably not if he asked tomorrow.  In time the quality of his work and not the abruptness of his leaving will shine through. 

wolfie

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Re: Family Welfare vs. Honoring One's Word
« Reply #28 on: May 07, 2014, 09:11:16 AM »
You needed to do what was right for you.  And in the end you made a compromise that accomidated both old and new employers.  We just had someone leave us in the lurch, but it was right for him.  As the one picking up some of the slack I miss him, but respect that he had to do what was right for him.  Do I think he'll get a good reference, probably not if he asked tomorrow.  In time the quality of his work and not the abruptness of his leaving will shine through.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. We tend to remember the negative a lot longer then we remember the positive. I would say that once you burn your bridges consider them burned forever. Repair work is a lot harder to do once you are gone.

Lynn2000

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Re: Family Welfare vs. Honoring One's Word
« Reply #29 on: May 07, 2014, 10:47:42 AM »
I would be pretty peeved that my resignation approval was delayed for so long. Life happens and I understand that; if the top approver is out sick, I'd expect a delay of a few days, like 5. But if the illness is serious, and in another country, I would expect the company to appoint someone who could put Boss's stamp on things in the meantime. A delay of 25 days (either almost a month, or 5 weeks if those are business days) for something important and time-sensitive like a resignation would upset me.

I'm assuming that if you leave without it being officially approved, you lose out on something, like being paid for unused vacation time or whatever. If you could leave anyway without penalty then I guess it doesn't really matter.
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