Author Topic: Posting In A Relation-Ship on FB when still married  (Read 13558 times)

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wolfie

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Re: Posting In A Relation-Ship on FB when still married
« Reply #30 on: May 12, 2014, 02:05:13 PM »
No, I'm saying that because marriage is public. Almost every marriage requires a witness (even if it's only the officiant). And marriages are registered with the government. If you don't do it the right way, it's not considered valid by the government, and other people aren't legally required to honor it (and maybe not socially--in the past it would have mattered more than it does in 2014).

That's what marriage is--a contract the -rest- of us are required to honor.

If you don't want other people to be invested in your marriage, you can just have whatever private commitment ceremony you decide, and be as committed as you'd like. Lots of people are firmly committed without ever marrying.
    And lots of people have marriages in which they have no emotional commitment. But that marriage is legally binding. (and trying to make it more emotionally binding, or at least respectful, is what's behind the idea that I won't acknowledge and will in fact condemn your breaking of that agreement, that contract before it is completely dissolved.) (edited to add the underlined)

You will find that legal marriage has no stipulation of fidelity between the couple, so you cannot argue that the fact that there is a legal marriage makes her obliged to wait for the divorce. If you argue from the religious point of view, the vows were already broken when decided to divorce.

Plus they might not have had a religious ceremony so there is nothing there for them to break. I also don't think posting you are in a relationship is baring your deepest emotions.

Margo

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Re: Posting In A Relation-Ship on FB when still married
« Reply #31 on: May 12, 2014, 02:08:59 PM »
Going back to the OP, and the issue that the husband apparently suspected that there was someone else involved, I wonder whether there is an element of being stuck either way.

If she isn't open about being in a relationship, she is criticised for not being honest, or for trying to hide the fact thatshe is in a relationship. If she is open about it, she is criticised for 'falunting' it before she is divorced. And if she is not concealing it but not making it public either, then it potentially places those who know of the new relationship in an awkward position as they wonder whether it is Ok to mention it, or the new partner, or whether it is supposed to be a secret.

I can see someone in that situation deciding to post it on facebook as a way of clearing the air and letting people know what the situation is.

I think if the reality is that the marriage has ended, and that one party is in a new relationship, there is nothing rude or inappropriate about that person making that fact public. I do agree that it would probably have been better had she waited longer before starting a new relationship or introducing her children to her new partner, as they will need time to come to terms with their parents' separation, but that is a slightly different issue.

In respect of the issue of marriage as a social contract, I agree that marriage as an institution is part of a wider social contract, as well as a contract between the couple concerned, but I think we need to be very careful as to what that then implies - legal and social ideas overlap but are not identical, and I think that there is a distinction between saying that we as members of society have an interest on marriage as an institution, and extending that to say that the specifics of a particular individual's marriage is something we have a stake in. Legally, for instance, adultery (for example) does not mean that a marriage is ended - it doesn't mean that a person is automatically deprived of tax advantages, residency rights etc linked to their marriage, for instance.

TurtleDove

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Re: Posting In A Relation-Ship on FB when still married
« Reply #32 on: May 12, 2014, 02:10:58 PM »
I think this is extremely distasteful, especially because young kids are involved.  I also think it's risky, because until they are divorced, they are married (in a legal sense).  Of course this can impact proceedings with those kids, as it should.

And I'd call it rude based on simple decency, and the politeness of not providing TMI to people who don't need or want to know such things.   

I'm really tired of people like this.

I agree this is distasteful, and not to get into legalities, but frustrating as it can seem, infidelity is not always/often a factor considered for child custody.  It would absolutely play a role in how kids perceive their parents however.

bah12

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Re: Posting In A Relation-Ship on FB when still married
« Reply #33 on: May 12, 2014, 03:01:58 PM »
Regardless of what my personal views are, I don't think it matters what someone posts on FB.  People do things that I don't personally or morally agree with all the time.  Even people that I love and respect.  For me to say "you can't talk about it" would make me a hypocrite, as I'm sure there must be something (likely many things) that I have done that don't mesh up with others' personal beliefs. I can say "I don't want to hear it". Or I can choose to end the friendship.  Social consequences are mine to dole out, but moral ones, not so much.

So, for marriage in general. I don't really care under what institute someone is married.  If they say they are married, I respect the marriage. I.E. treat them as a social unit, congratulate them on 'anniversaries', understand that one may not feel comfortable making decisions or plans without input from the other, etc.  I do not feel that I have a right to institute my own beliefs about how they behave, what they do, or how they break-up.  Of course, a break-up of friends, coworkers, family members, etc can have an effect on me, but that still doesn't give me the right to say "You have to do it this way because I attended your wedding and have a say so."

What I can do (and will do for friends and family I care about) is say "look, you're my friend and I love you. I understand that you are trying to move on from a tough situation.  As your friend, I want to be there for you.  I'm uncomfortable with your new relationship being so 'out there' when you're not yet divorced, yet, I also recognize that I'm not you and don't know everything.  I am your friend though and I care about you, the kids, your relationships, so can we talk about this please?"

There's nothing wrong with calling a friend out or at least letting them know that they may regret their actions later.  For someone that I barely know or have no relationship with, I stay out.  It's not my business and if the FB things bother me, I unfriend and move on.   

I understand why someone would question the timing of the relationship in the OP.  I think that's natural. But, I don't think that makes putting it on FB rude or "throwing it in people's faces". 

Twik

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Re: Posting In A Relation-Ship on FB when still married
« Reply #34 on: May 12, 2014, 03:39:32 PM »
I would say it's pretty premature to announce you're in a new relationship before you have official separated. That is, of course, my own opinion, but after all, that's all we're offering here.
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gollymolly2

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Re: Posting In A Relation-Ship on FB when still married
« Reply #35 on: May 12, 2014, 03:47:25 PM »
Actually, I think it's right on topic.

If someone holds my view--that marriage as an institution is upheld through the upholding of individual marriage contracts, and therefore the rest of us have a stake in insisting that those contracts be treated with respect (i.e., not dating, or at least not making the rest of us deal with your dating, before the contract is nullified)--then that person is going to think that the OP's DD's friend was wrong to force this information in front of everyone on Facebook.

If someone holds a different view--that individual marriage contracts are not the business of anybody else, and that people's emotional situations are the only things that are important, and that they are allowed to make that emotion the business of everyone else--then they will say that it was not bad etiquette to put this info on Facebook in front of everyone.


I'll say one other thing: I think baring your deepest emotions in front of other people is rude to them. People shouldn't really have to deal with your emotions unless they're truly close to you.
   That's also part of why I think it's not good form to make your dating life really public when it's so messy.

It's possible for someone to view marriage as the public's business but still not have a problem with this if they feel, as I do, that a marriage is over and the people in it are free to date once they have decided the marriage is done and they are going to celebrate. As a member of the public, I don't really need to know when the divorce is final. The marriage is over for my purposes when the couple says it over.

Surianne

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Re: Posting In A Relation-Ship on FB when still married
« Reply #36 on: May 12, 2014, 03:49:23 PM »
Actually, I think it's right on topic.

If someone holds my view--that marriage as an institution is upheld through the upholding of individual marriage contracts, and therefore the rest of us have a stake in insisting that those contracts be treated with respect (i.e., not dating, or at least not making the rest of us deal with your dating, before the contract is nullified)--then that person is going to think that the OP's DD's friend was wrong to force this information in front of everyone on Facebook.

If someone holds a different view--that individual marriage contracts are not the business of anybody else, and that people's emotional situations are the only things that are important, and that they are allowed to make that emotion the business of everyone else--then they will say that it was not bad etiquette to put this info on Facebook in front of everyone.


I'll say one other thing: I think baring your deepest emotions in front of other people is rude to them. People shouldn't really have to deal with your emotions unless they're truly close to you.
   That's also part of why I think it's not good form to make your dating life really public when it's so messy.

Sure, let's all strive to maintain the institution of marriage. However, don't force your view of marriage on others. You have no idea what my vows were.

I agree completely.  I don't think it's reasonable to assume everyone feels the same way about marriage that you do, and I don't think that getting married means the couple now has to listen to the rest of the world tell them what marriage involves.  I'm also not sure how changing a relationship status is forcing other people to share in your deepest emotions. 

I don't think the woman has done anything wrong here, and we have no proof that she committed adultery of any kind.  I think that sort of speculation is far more rude than changing her relationship status when she is legally separated/in the process of getting divorced.  The relationship is over, and what may be too soon for one person might be perfectly reasonable to another. 

Mikayla

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Re: Posting In A Relation-Ship on FB when still married
« Reply #37 on: May 12, 2014, 04:01:45 PM »
I think this is extremely distasteful, especially because young kids are involved.  I also think it's risky, because until they are divorced, they are married (in a legal sense).  Of course this can impact proceedings with those kids, as it should.

And I'd call it rude based on simple decency, and the politeness of not providing TMI to people who don't need or want to know such things.   

I'm really tired of people like this.

I agree this is distasteful, and not to get into legalities, but frustrating as it can seem, infidelity is not always/often a factor considered for child custody.  It would absolutely play a role in how kids perceive their parents however.

That may be true in general, but I just watched this play out in my own family and it did have a big impact.  She never changed her status, but just like in this situation, there were photos that shouldn't have been posted.

The worst part for me is I'm not on her friend's list anymore and she's gone on lockdown.  So my nosy nature has been stifled  :)

Also, to lady_disdain and others commenting on the status change, it wasn't just that.  It was photos.  I just don't see how anyone could say she didn't do anything wrong when she's got kids.   But then, as just explained, maybe I'm too close to the situation.  I've seen the damage it can do.

lady_disdain

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Re: Posting In A Relation-Ship on FB when still married
« Reply #38 on: May 12, 2014, 04:04:55 PM »
I think this is extremely distasteful, especially because young kids are involved.  I also think it's risky, because until they are divorced, they are married (in a legal sense).  Of course this can impact proceedings with those kids, as it should.

And I'd call it rude based on simple decency, and the politeness of not providing TMI to people who don't need or want to know such things.   

I'm really tired of people like this.

I agree this is distasteful, and not to get into legalities, but frustrating as it can seem, infidelity is not always/often a factor considered for child custody.  It would absolutely play a role in how kids perceive their parents however.

That may be true in general, but I just watched this play out in my own family and it did have a big impact.  She never changed her status, but just like in this situation, there were photos that shouldn't have been posted.

The worst part for me is I'm not on her friend's list anymore and she's gone on lockdown.  So my nosy nature has been stifled  :)

Also, to lady_disdain and others commenting on the status change, it wasn't just that.  It was photos.  I just don't see how anyone could say she didn't do anything wrong when she's got kids.   But then, as just explained, maybe I'm too close to the situation.  I've seen the damage it can do.

What were those photos that make it so much worse? If it was just couple stuff, then I  think they are just as awkward as any other couple-y photos. Unless nudity or indecency was involved, why does it make it worse?

bah12

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Re: Posting In A Relation-Ship on FB when still married
« Reply #39 on: May 12, 2014, 04:06:00 PM »
Actually, I think it's right on topic.

If someone holds my view--that marriage as an institution is upheld through the upholding of individual marriage contracts, and therefore the rest of us have a stake in insisting that those contracts be treated with respect (i.e., not dating, or at least not making the rest of us deal with your dating, before the contract is nullified)--then that person is going to think that the OP's DD's friend was wrong to force this information in front of everyone on Facebook.

If someone holds a different view--that individual marriage contracts are not the business of anybody else, and that people's emotional situations are the only things that are important, and that they are allowed to make that emotion the business of everyone else--then they will say that it was not bad etiquette to put this info on Facebook in front of everyone.


I'll say one other thing: I think baring your deepest emotions in front of other people is rude to them. People shouldn't really have to deal with your emotions unless they're truly close to you.
   That's also part of why I think it's not good form to make your dating life really public when it's so messy.

It's possible for someone to view marriage as the public's business but still not have a problem with this if they feel, as I do, that a marriage is over and the people in it are free to date once they have decided the marriage is done and they are going to celebrate. As a member of the public, I don't really need to know when the divorce is final. The marriage is over for my purposes when the couple says it over.

I can buy into this thought.  Afterall, I have argued in the past, that a couple that considers themselves married is married, regardless of whether or not the government recongnizes it.  I treat them the same as any 'legally' married couple I may be friends with.  So, I would have to extend that to when they say they are no longer married.  Socially, I would choose to accept it, even if morally I didn't agree with it.

At the same time, I feel that I can socially choose not to associate with someone who morally I disagree with, but that would not only extend to my feelings about when it's ok to start a new relationship during the dissolution of the old one. In some cases, I may not morally agree with the marriage either.   So, I think we all have a right to socialize with whoever we want, but I don't think we can impose our beliefs about what constitute marriage or divorce on others.

TurtleDove

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Re: Posting In A Relation-Ship on FB when still married
« Reply #40 on: May 12, 2014, 04:14:06 PM »
Also, to lady_disdain and others commenting on the status change, it wasn't just that.  It was photos.  I just don't see how anyone could say she didn't do anything wrong when she's got kids.   But then, as just explained, maybe I'm too close to the situation.  I've seen the damage it can do.

Parents breaking up causes pain for kids and other family members.  At some point, though, a person needs to move on.  That point is different for different people in different circumstances.  We don't know the circumstances of the breakdown of the marriage, or the timeline of when this woman started dating someone else.  I think we can make judgments about a person based on their behavior and how we feel about it - no one should be forced to agree with what someone else does.  But the way to handle disapproval, to my mind, would be to back off the relationship with the person you disapprove of, not expect them to change to please you.  One of the most valuable lessons I have learned over the course of my life is that I cannot make all people happy all the time, but I can do my best to make myself happy, and live with the fallout.  I do not begrudge anyone happiness, and if this new relationship is a bad thing for this woman and her kids, well, then it is, but someone else disapproving of her happiness right now is not going to magically make her see that. 

veronaz

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I don't think this is an etiquette issue.

It's her relationship and her Facebook. I'm not sure why people outside of her relationship would care about her status.

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turnip

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Re: Posting In A Relation-Ship on FB when still married
« Reply #42 on: May 12, 2014, 04:26:52 PM »
FB is ultimately a quick way of communicating things to your social circle.  If you would tell people in person that you are in a relationship with 'Ted' now, if you would take him with you to social events - then I don't think it is any different than updating a status in FB.

So obviously there are a lot of disagreements over how someone who is 'separated' should behave in public - but I can't see how a FB status 'crosses the line', so to speak.   Either it's rude for her to publically admit that she's in another relationship or it isn't - but if it's rude, it's rude face-to-face, or by telephone, or  by FB.   

TootsNYC

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Re: Posting In A Relation-Ship on FB when still married
« Reply #43 on: May 12, 2014, 04:28:48 PM »
Agree!

Though you can tailor a face-to-face more discreetly than you can w/ a Facebook status.

Changing your Facebook status is asking people to know this thing about you. It's a public declaration.

turnip

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Re: Posting In A Relation-Ship on FB when still married
« Reply #44 on: May 12, 2014, 04:34:42 PM »
Agree!

Though you can tailor a face-to-face more discreetly than you can w/ a Facebook status.

Changing your Facebook status is asking people to know this thing about you. It's a public declaration.

Sure - but so would showing up at a large party with your new partner. Effectively that's what this friend has done.