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Author Topic: s/o of Millinery - blatant violation of a dress code  (Read 24260 times)

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Lynn2000

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Re: s/o of Millinery - blatant violation of a dress code
« Reply #30 on: May 29, 2014, 02:17:26 PM »
I think flouting the dress code without a good reason (like medical necessity) is rude. In my own workplace I've seen things slide downhill because a few people didn't take the dress code seriously, and this is a lab where a dress code has safety implications! In fact the other day I wasn't able to do a procedure I wanted to do, because the college-student intern was wearing flip-flops and she needed closed-toed shoes. She shouldn't even have been wearing the flip-flops to the lab at all, regardless of what specific thing I wanted to do that day. But, my boss doesn't like enforcing dress codes and sometimes wears sandals herself, so there's not much I can do about it.

If the OP has a higher position, I think it would be appropriate to inquire with the woman's supervisor what was going on. Not from an assumption that the woman is doing something wrong and needs to stop, but out of curiosity about why she was being allowed to violate the dress code, as it could impact the professional atmosphere. If the supervisor says she has a good reason for it, then fine, end of story. If she doesn't, it might be appropriate for the OP, as a higher-level worker, to remind the supervisor to enforce the company rules. To me it would be the same as noticing that a particular department's area was always sloppy, or that their customer service scores were low--"This does not look like how we want this company to look. What is the problem, and what are you doing to fix it?"
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DanaJ

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Re: s/o of Millinery - blatant violation of a dress code
« Reply #31 on: May 29, 2014, 02:30:43 PM »
I disagree that defying authority is rude.

Being disrespectful of authority is by definition "disrespectful".

camlan

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Re: s/o of Millinery - blatant violation of a dress code
« Reply #32 on: May 29, 2014, 05:05:55 PM »


I don't think that flouting a work rule is necessarily rude if it doesn't impact other workers by changing their jobs - not adding tasks or time to their days.  It may be a poor choice for that individual, but not rude.

I understand what you are getting at here. But what about other supervisors of other employees who now have to field questions and complaints from their direct reports as to why Employee X is allowed to wear something that the dress code clearly states isn't allowed? Or the supervisors who decide that they will still enforce the dress code until official word is received that the code has been changed, and now have to correct employees who decide that if Employee X can wear flip flops, so can they?

Takes time away from the jobs they were hired to do to sort those things out.

I can understand an employee not agreeing with the dress code. But the way to change that is to go through proper channels, not just start wearing whatever you like.
Nothing is impossible, the word itself says, “I’m possible!” –Audrey Hepburn


TootsNYC

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Re: s/o of Millinery - blatant violation of a dress code
« Reply #33 on: May 29, 2014, 05:20:14 PM »
I disagree that defying authority is rude.

Being disrespectful of authority is by definition "disrespectful".

It may be a *necessary* rudeness.

Rigatoni

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Re: s/o of Millinery - blatant violation of a dress code
« Reply #34 on: May 29, 2014, 10:34:55 PM »
I will add this just as a counterpoint to "it can't be medical".  I realize if she were pregnant it would be super obvious BUT:

I worked in a casual office until I was 8.5 months pregnant.  It was a field and field support office for a big corporation.  I worked in data management so our dress was "business but with neat jeans ok" because the field folk were out in "let's hope your uniform stays fairly neat while you get dirty" jeans.

I once looked at a girl who wore flip flops and shorts to work, as an intern, with GREAT disdain because I thought flip flops were pretty unprofessional.

Then right around 6-7 months pregnant my feet swelled SO BAD I couldn't wear real shoes.  I found some very dressy (think the ones from the OP but in black velvet and no flower) wedge flip flops.  And I took the office executive aside and said "I"M SOOOO sorry... but I can't wear real shoes.  I hope these aren't bad." She totally said it was cool.  But I didn't talk to every one of the 30 other people in the office.

So with swollen feet I might have worn crocs, or those sandals, or whatever... and had the whole office looking at me.  I dunno.  I was really only worried about what the boss thought.

Peppergirl

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Re: s/o of Millinery - blatant violation of a dress code
« Reply #35 on: May 30, 2014, 03:54:25 AM »
Whew.  Perfect timing.  I'm currently having a night in which I feel isolated due to working completely virtually.  This thread has cured me of that, and I'm back to being grateful to work from home. 

I do remember situations like this, and not fondly.  I'd recommend simply ignoring it and concentrating on yourself.  I do find it odd, however, that your management sees fit to constantly send dress code reminders when it's clearly not all that important to them.  ::)

whatsanenigma

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Re: s/o of Millinery - blatant violation of a dress code
« Reply #36 on: May 30, 2014, 11:24:00 AM »

I do remember situations like this, and not fondly.  I'd recommend simply ignoring it and concentrating on yourself.  I do find it odd, however, that your management sees fit to constantly send dress code reminders when it's clearly not all that important to them.  ::)

I wonder if this is an example of the company knowing that one person tends to violate the dress code, so they send reminders to everyone, hoping that the offender will recognize him or herself and shape up, instead of coaching the employee one on one.

Of course, we all know how well that plan usually works...usually,  not at all.

Tea Drinker

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Re: s/o of Millinery - blatant violation of a dress code
« Reply #37 on: May 30, 2014, 01:01:45 PM »

I do remember situations like this, and not fondly.  I'd recommend simply ignoring it and concentrating on yourself.  I do find it odd, however, that your management sees fit to constantly send dress code reminders when it's clearly not all that important to them.  ::)

I wonder if this is an example of the company knowing that one person tends to violate the dress code, so they send reminders to everyone, hoping that the offender will recognize him or herself and shape up, instead of coaching the employee one on one.

Of course, we all know how well that plan usually works...usually,  not at all.

I had a weird example of that at my previous job. We (a small team) got a "heads up everyone" email and when I went to talk to my manager and ask if there was something I needed to change, she told me explicitly that it wasn't me, but it was more tactful to send it this way. I'm not sure telling me that adds up to more tact than just talking to the individual in question would have been, though. If there had been 30 of us instead of two or three, maybe.)
Any advice that requires the use of a time machine may safely be ignored.

Peppergirl

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Re: s/o of Millinery - blatant violation of a dress code
« Reply #38 on: May 30, 2014, 09:55:16 PM »
Exactly!  Most companies I know would rather take the PA way and send reminders and notices to everyone (ninety percent of whom don't break the rules), rather than simply address the offenders.

Thing is, the offenders are usually so entitled or clueless that they don't realize it's about them, or they simply don't care.   ::)

scotcat60

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Re: s/o of Millinery - blatant violation of a dress code
« Reply #39 on: May 31, 2014, 08:42:29 AM »
Quote from: DanaJ on May 29, 2014, 03:30:43 PM
Quote from: AnnaJ on May 29, 2014, 02:16:17 PM
I disagree that defying authority is rude.
Being disrespectful of authority is by definition "disrespectful".

It may be a *necessary* rudeness.

I agree TootsNYC. When I was at work we were called together to discuss a proposed dress code, which we none of  us felt we needed, and I was one of those who said so. I turned up at the meeting in pink trousers, which were not on the list of approved clothing. In the event we did not adopt the code.
 A friend told of how a colleague was taken to task for wearing a skirt above her knees, Every woman in the office went home, took up the hem of her skirt, and turned up at work the next day showing her knees. No more was said. The boss also said he didn't want women wearing trousers, until my friend mentioned that the Bank of England allowed it's female employees to do so. Boss allowed it for his female employees then

Seven Ate Nine

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Re: s/o of Millinery - blatant violation of a dress code
« Reply #40 on: May 31, 2014, 11:17:11 AM »
I will add this just as a counterpoint to "it can't be medical".  I realize if she were pregnant it would be super obvious BUT:

I worked in a casual office until I was 8.5 months pregnant.  It was a field and field support office for a big corporation.  I worked in data management so our dress was "business but with neat jeans ok" because the field folk were out in "let's hope your uniform stays fairly neat while you get dirty" jeans.

I once looked at a girl who wore flip flops and shorts to work, as an intern, with GREAT disdain because I thought flip flops were pretty unprofessional.

Then right around 6-7 months pregnant my feet swelled SO BAD I couldn't wear real shoes.  I found some very dressy (think the ones from the OP but in black velvet and no flower) wedge flip flops.  And I took the office executive aside and said "I"M SOOOO sorry... but I can't wear real shoes.  I hope these aren't bad." She totally said it was cool.  But I didn't talk to every one of the 30 other people in the office.

So with swollen feet I might have worn crocs, or those sandals, or whatever... and had the whole office looking at me.  I dunno.  I was really only worried about what the boss thought.

I did something similar when I was pregnant.  The office that I worked in had a business casual dress code, with a stipulation for office employees that jeans were allowed on Fridays only (it was a construction company so field guys obviously had a different dress code, and guys that worked half and half could also get away with jeans in the office).  I really did have a bit of an attitude about the girls who wore jeans all week, or flip flops with their pants.  The chick who wore the sweatpants with "Juicy" written on the butt was actually customer facing.

Then I started to get really swollen.  And it was summer, and I was miserable.  I started wearing a skirt to work as much as possible, with sandals similar to these, except that they were not leather, but more of a sturdy flip flop material (not rubber).  Then I had to give up my shoes altogether and started wearing the sandals with my dress pants (many of my maternity shirts were too flowy to look right with my skirt).  I felt like I looked a bit ridiculous , but it was anything to get me through at that point, and I worked in a place that customers generally couldn't even get into.

bloo

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Re: s/o of Millinery - blatant violation of a dress code
« Reply #41 on: May 31, 2014, 11:35:49 AM »
Quote from: DanaJ on May 29, 2014, 03:30:43 PM
Quote from: AnnaJ on May 29, 2014, 02:16:17 PM
I disagree that defying authority is rude.
Being disrespectful of authority is by definition "disrespectful".

It may be a *necessary* rudeness.

I agree TootsNYC. When I was at work we were called together to discuss a proposed dress code, which we none of  us felt we needed, and I was one of those who said so. I turned up at the meeting in pink trousers, which were not on the list of approved clothing. In the event we did not adopt the code.
 A friend told of how a colleague was taken to task for wearing a skirt above her knees, Every woman in the office went home, took up the hem of her skirt, and turned up at work the next day showing her knees. No more was said. The boss also said he didn't want women wearing trousers, until my friend mentioned that the Bank of England allowed it's female employees to do so. Boss allowed it for his female employees then

I don't understand how the bolded are necessary rudeness.

I figure if I own a business and prefer a dress code that's fairly specific (but not quite a uniform) then I can do that. If I determine that skirts should be at or below the knees, I would not like the skirt-wearing workforce to deliberately hem their skirts above the knee. Why flout a dress code? Unless the following of a dress code violates my own sense of modesty* or religious beliefs, there's no point in it except to show that I'm disrespectful.


*And if a dress code wants me looking hoochie then I wouldn't apply to work there in the first place.

Aquamarine

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Re: s/o of Millinery - blatant violation of a dress code
« Reply #42 on: May 31, 2014, 12:39:14 PM »
Quote from: DanaJ on May 29, 2014, 03:30:43 PM
Quote from: AnnaJ on May 29, 2014, 02:16:17 PM
I disagree that defying authority is rude.
Being disrespectful of authority is by definition "disrespectful".

It may be a *necessary* rudeness.

I agree TootsNYC. When I was at work we were called together to discuss a proposed dress code, which we none of  us felt we needed, and I was one of those who said so. I turned up at the meeting in pink trousers, which were not on the list of approved clothing. In the event we did not adopt the code.
 A friend told of how a colleague was taken to task for wearing a skirt above her knees, Every woman in the office went home, took up the hem of her skirt, and turned up at work the next day showing her knees. No more was said. The boss also said he didn't want women wearing trousers, until my friend mentioned that the Bank of England allowed it's female employees to do so. Boss allowed it for his female employees then

I don't understand how the bolded are necessary rudeness.

I figure if I own a business and prefer a dress code that's fairly specific (but not quite a uniform) then I can do that. If I determine that skirts should be at or below the knees, I would not like the skirt-wearing workforce to deliberately hem their skirts above the knee. Why flout a dress code? Unless the following of a dress code violates my own sense of modesty* or religious beliefs, there's no point in it except to show that I'm disrespectful.


*And if a dress code wants me looking hoochie then I wouldn't apply to work there in the first place.

POD.  All the people who hitched up their skirts proved to management was that they were incapable of following a simple basic rule of the dress code.  This is probably not something I would would want to point out to management.  They did themselves no favors with their high school theatrics.  If I was management I couldn't help but wonder what other simple rules or duties did they think were beneath them or would refuse to adhere to.  It would put them on my radar and not in a favorable way.
Always be polite, even to nasty people. Not because they are nice, but because you are.

Seven Ate Nine

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Re: s/o of Millinery - blatant violation of a dress code
« Reply #43 on: May 31, 2014, 02:23:29 PM »
Quote from: DanaJ on May 29, 2014, 03:30:43 PM
Quote from: AnnaJ on May 29, 2014, 02:16:17 PM
I disagree that defying authority is rude.
Being disrespectful of authority is by definition "disrespectful".

It may be a *necessary* rudeness.

I agree TootsNYC. When I was at work we were called together to discuss a proposed dress code, which we none of  us felt we needed, and I was one of those who said so. I turned up at the meeting in pink trousers, which were not on the list of approved clothing. In the event we did not adopt the code.
 A friend told of how a colleague was taken to task for wearing a skirt above her knees, Every woman in the office went home, took up the hem of her skirt, and turned up at work the next day showing her knees. No more was said. The boss also said he didn't want women wearing trousers, until my friend mentioned that the Bank of England allowed it's female employees to do so. Boss allowed it for his female employees then

I don't understand how the bolded are necessary rudeness.

I figure if I own a business and prefer a dress code that's fairly specific (but not quite a uniform) then I can do that. If I determine that skirts should be at or below the knees, I would not like the skirt-wearing workforce to deliberately hem their skirts above the knee. Why flout a dress code? Unless the following of a dress code violates my own sense of modesty* or religious beliefs, there's no point in it except to show that I'm disrespectful.


*And if a dress code wants me looking hoochie then I wouldn't apply to work there in the first place.

POD.  All the people who hitched up their skirts proved to management was that they were incapable of following a simple basic rule of the dress code.  This is probably not something I would would want to point out to management.  They did themselves no favors with their high school theatrics.  If I was management I couldn't help but wonder what other simple rules or duties did they think were beneath them or would refuse to adhere to.  It would put them on my radar and not in a favorable way.

I kind of wonder if the skirt below the knees thing was actually in the handbook.  I've seen several power trippy managers go off about something that is actually not against the rules that they personally do not like or do not find appropriate for whatever reason.  The original comment only says that one lady was taken to task for her skirt, not that it was actually against the rules.  The fact that the next line is that the boss didn't want women wearing trousers, and not that it was actually against the rules to wear trousers, suggests to me that it was not official.

Twik

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Re: s/o of Millinery - blatant violation of a dress code
« Reply #44 on: May 31, 2014, 08:49:01 PM »
There is an inherent rudeness in flouting rules that other people try to follow. For those that think that wearing flip flips is Standing Up to the Man, do you object to dress codes as a matter of principle?
My cousin's memoir of love and loneliness while raising a child with multiple disabilities will be out on Amazon soon! Know the Night, by Maria Mutch, has been called "full of hope, light, and companionship for surviving the small hours of the night."