How or Even If I Should Respond?

[Celany]

People have probably been telling them, "It never hurts to ask."

Yep, this is what happens with that kind of mentality.

I'd just like to say I think there's a huge difference between "it never hurts to ask" and "I am going to pester the crap out of you until you cave"

In many cases, I don't think it necessarily hurts to *ask*, but after a no (and no explanations needed on that no) is tendered, the subject needs to be dropped.

[TootsNYC]

I think there are a great many cases where it hurts to ask. It's not appropriate.
I would even say in most cases, you shouldn't ask--or, if you stop to think whether you should ask--you shouldn't.

[Ceallach]

I think there are a great many cases where it hurts to ask. It's not appropriate.
I would even say in most cases, you shouldn't ask--or, if you stop to think whether you should ask--you shouldn't.

I agree.  There are many requests that are inappropriate or put the person you're asking in a very awkward position.   

I always find the "it's ok to ask if you politely accept a no" generalisation to be strange.   It's ok to ask something appropriate, but there are many things which it's never, ever ok to ask!  Or people whom it's inappropriate to ask certain things of.   I can think of a dozen examples without even trying.

[sammycat]

I think there are a great many cases where it hurts to ask. It's not appropriate.
I would even say in most cases, you shouldn't ask--or, if you stop to think whether you should ask--you shouldn't.

I agree.  There are many requests that are inappropriate or put the person you're asking in a very awkward position.   

I always find the "it's ok to ask if you politely accept a no" generalisation to be strange.   It's ok to ask something appropriate, but there are many things which it's never, ever ok to ask!  Or people whom it's inappropriate to ask certain things of.   I can think of a dozen examples without even trying.

Agreed.

[Runningstar]

Wow, this very thing happened to me years ago.  A co-worker heard about my vacation plans at my uncle's place and decided that since she wanted to come along, I told her no.  She requested time off from work & got it.  Then she informed me that I would be including her in my plans.  I told her no, she tried to use the request for time off against that (as in - but I've made significant steps in order to come and if you deny me I'll lose my vacation time).  She had met my uncle a few times, called him about it.  He didn't know that this vulture had been told no by me and assumed that I had told her to get directions and info from him.  She then smugly informed me that she'd be there that Friday with wine and food.  I went ballistic, ending with very non etiquette approved things.  We went from being cheerful and friendly co-workers to completely silent ones.  We both went on to other jobs and I've never seen her again. 
Not really advice, but hindsight for the OP?  The first no from me was a smiling (cause I thought that she must be kidding) one.  The second was a little bit dismayed one, and the third was over the top.  I should have been firm and not at all so gentle for the first no.  If these people do manage to get in touch somehow with you, be firm right away.

[iridaceae]

I've had co-workers ask if they could be stowed in my luggage..... does that count?

[Curly Wurly Doggie Breath]

I've had co-workers ask if they could be stowed in my luggage..... does that count?

I hope not, I do that all the time, in a just kidding way. We all laugh in a tired way and its not mentioned again

[Curly Wurly Doggie Breath]

Wow, this very thing happened to me years ago.  A co-worker heard about my vacation plans at my uncle's place and decided that since she wanted to come along, I told her no.  She requested time off from work & got it.  Then she informed me that I would be including her in my plans.  I told her no, she tried to use the request for time off against that (as in - but I've made significant steps in order to come and if you deny me I'll lose my vacation time).  She had met my uncle a few times, called him about it.  He didn't know that this vulture had been told no by me and assumed that I had told her to get directions and info from him.  She then smugly informed me that she'd be there that Friday with wine and food.  I went ballistic, ending with very non etiquette approved things.  We went from being cheerful and friendly co-workers to completely silent ones.  We both went on to other jobs and I've never seen her again. 
Not really advice, but hindsight for the OP?  The first no from me was a smiling (cause I thought that she must be kidding) one.  The second was a little bit dismayed one, and the third was over the top.  I should have been firm and not at all so gentle for the first no.  If these people do manage to get in touch somehow with you, be firm right away.

What in the dog's breath Gone Mind was she thinking 

[Roe]

I think there are a great many cases where it hurts to ask. It's not appropriate.
I would even say in most cases, you shouldn't ask--or, if you stop to think whether you should ask--you shouldn't.

I agree.  There are many requests that are inappropriate or put the person you're asking in a very awkward position.   

I always find the "it's ok to ask if you politely accept a no" generalisation to be strange.   It's ok to ask something appropriate, but there are many things which it's never, ever ok to ask!  Or people whom it's inappropriate to ask certain things of.   I can think of a dozen examples without even trying.

Agreed.

Pod. I also find the "it doesn't hurt to ask so long as you accept no" to be, not only strange, but rude. IME, it's rude to put someone on the spot.

[Tea Drinker]

"It doesn't hurt to ask" is more defensible if the asking is an offer than a request: "would you like to have lunch with me Saturday?" to someone you've never done social stuff with, or who you know is very busy, is often okay. That's the sort of thing where I sometimes have to remind myself that it's okay to ask, because the worst that will happen is the person will say no: sometimes it's someone who already knows I like them, and once in a while it might be a new/casual acquaintance, but there, the worst likely outcome is that they say no, and I say something like "OK, thanks anyhow" or just talk about something else.

It's the difference between asking a person if they want to do something with me, and asking them to do something for me.

[FauxFoodist]

Wow, this very thing happened to me years ago.  A co-worker heard about my vacation plans at my uncle's place and decided that since she wanted to come along, I told her no.  She requested time off from work & got it.  Then she informed me that I would be including her in my plans.  I told her no, she tried to use the request for time off against that (as in - but I've made significant steps in order to come and if you deny me I'll lose my vacation time).  She had met my uncle a few times, called him about it.  He didn't know that this vulture had been told no by me and assumed that I had told her to get directions and info from him.  She then smugly informed me that she'd be there that Friday with wine and food.  I went ballistic, ending with very non etiquette approved things.  We went from being cheerful and friendly co-workers to completely silent ones.  We both went on to other jobs and I've never seen her again. 
Not really advice, but hindsight for the OP?  The first no from me was a smiling (cause I thought that she must be kidding) one.  The second was a little bit dismayed one, and the third was over the top.  I should have been firm and not at all so gentle for the first no.  If these people do manage to get in touch somehow with you, be firm right away.

So what *was* her response when you went off on her, since polite noes did not work at all and she completed crossed the line by smugly telling you she'd be there after all?  Was this a story that ended up making its rounds at work (because I just couldn't imagine someone like this keeping her mouth shut given how she felt she should be able to go on your vacation)?

[Runningstar]

Wow, this very thing happened to me years ago.  A co-worker heard about my vacation plans at my uncle's place and decided that since she wanted to come along, I told her no.  She requested time off from work & got it.  Then she informed me that I would be including her in my plans.  I told her no, she tried to use the request for time off against that (as in - but I've made significant steps in order to come and if you deny me I'll lose my vacation time).  She had met my uncle a few times, called him about it.  He didn't know that this vulture had been told no by me and assumed that I had told her to get directions and info from him.  She then smugly informed me that she'd be there that Friday with wine and food.  I went ballistic, ending with very non etiquette approved things.  We went from being cheerful and friendly co-workers to completely silent ones.  We both went on to other jobs and I've never seen her again. 
Not really advice, but hindsight for the OP?  The first no from me was a smiling (cause I thought that she must be kidding) one.  The second was a little bit dismayed one, and the third was over the top.  I should have been firm and not at all so gentle for the first no.  If these people do manage to get in touch somehow with you, be firm right away.

So what *was* her response when you went off on her, since polite noes did not work at all and she completed crossed the line by smugly telling you she'd be there after all?  Was this a story that ended up making its rounds at work (because I just couldn't imagine someone like this keeping her mouth shut given how she felt she should be able to go on your vacation)?

She tried the whole poor me routine to others, but the only thing I heard from them was how shocked they were about what she had tried to do and had done.   Sad to say, but when the blow out happened, a lot of people heard it.  Not very professional on my part either, hopefully I'd be more mature about it now.

[sammycat]

Wow, this very thing happened to me years ago.  A co-worker heard about my vacation plans at my uncle's place and decided that since she wanted to come along, I told her no.  She requested time off from work & got it.  Then she informed me that I would be including her in my plans.  I told her no, she tried to use the request for time off against that (as in - but I've made significant steps in order to come and if you deny me I'll lose my vacation time).  She had met my uncle a few times, called him about it.  He didn't know that this vulture had been told no by me and assumed that I had told her to get directions and info from him.  She then smugly informed me that she'd be there that Friday with wine and food.  I went ballistic, ending with very non etiquette approved things.  We went from being cheerful and friendly co-workers to completely silent ones.  We both went on to other jobs and I've never seen her again. 
Not really advice, but hindsight for the OP?  The first no from me was a smiling (cause I thought that she must be kidding) one.  The second was a little bit dismayed one, and the third was over the top.  I should have been firm and not at all so gentle for the first no.  If these people do manage to get in touch somehow with you, be firm right away.

 

Unless your uncle's name is Walt* and he happens to have a huge (theme) park in the backyard, I can't imagine that visiting a co-worker's uncle's house would be worth all this trouble.  (I'm sure your uncle is a lovely man, but this just seems so strange!).

*Yes, I'm aware Walt Disney has passed away.

[Celany]

I think there are a great many cases where it hurts to ask. It's not appropriate.
I would even say in most cases, you shouldn't ask--or, if you stop to think whether you should ask--you shouldn't.

I agree.  There are many requests that are inappropriate or put the person you're asking in a very awkward position.   

I always find the "it's ok to ask if you politely accept a no" generalisation to be strange.   It's ok to ask something appropriate, but there are many things which it's never, ever ok to ask!  Or people whom it's inappropriate to ask certain things of.   I can think of a dozen examples without even trying.

Agreed.

Pod. I also find the "it doesn't hurt to ask so long as you accept no" to be, not only strange, but rude. IME, it's rude to put someone on the spot.

Really? I know this woman was clearly rude, but if my friend has been telling me about her great beach vacations for years & I say to her one day "you know, I'd love to join you guys sometime, if you're looking for new people to join in. But if not, no worries.' Would that be rude?

I know that's not a question, per se (and I gave her an out) so does that make it different/less rude?

I would never randomly ask/demand someone that I barely knew (like what happened to the OP), but if I was close enough to someone that they were sharing  details of their trips (or of their life) with me, then it wouldn't strike me as rude to make a question/statement mentioning that I'd be interested in X thing too. Am I incorrect in that thinking?

[omjulie]

I've never had anyone quite this persistent, but my way of brushing off people asking for an invitation is usually to say something like, "Oh, it's just going to be me and [person], actually. Sorry." No justifying it, no explaining, and do not add the phrase "this time" if you don't want them to think they might be invited next time. If they're a person I genuinely do want to spend time with, then I offer to schedule something with them another time. If not, I just leave it at that. I've been in some social circles where inviting oneself along to things was very common, and that response seems to work well without seriously hurting anyone's feelings. The key is to keep your tone sort of brisk and polite and then move on from the subject quickly. Don't act overly apologetic or wait around for them to respond - you want to make it clear that you expect them to take it well and be reasonable about it, and you're so sure they're going to react that way that you don't feel the need to check for their actual response. Most people pick up the cue when you do that and follow your lead onto a different topic of discussion.

If I get a "but whyyyyyyy" type answer or they try to argue about why they should come, I just act a bit uncomfortable, and then say, "That's just how it is" or "No, that won't work" or just change the subject without responding. With the few very obnoxious people I've known, I just tell them no once and then never engage on the topic again if I can help it - whenever they bring it up, I just give them a slightly confused look and change the subject.

If your friend's friend is really so persistent that she can't beandip her way out of it, she can always try saying, "I'm sorry, but this is very awkward for me. Would you rather wait to talk until after I get back from my vacation?" And then when friend inevitably tries to argue her case again, just say, "I already told you it won't be possible. I'm sure you can find your own vacation for the same timeframe. Let's talk again after we both get back." And then she needs to leave, and not engage on the topic again unless it's to say (with increasing impatience), "We've already talked about this." Basically, once she gives the initial "no," she should just refer back to that - this friend needs no new information, because she already has all the info about the trip that she needs (namely, that she is not invited).

Personally I think it's OK to say "I'm sorry" if that makes your friend feel better, but she shouldn't linger on the apology or be overly conciliatory about it - just say the words, since they're so ingrained, and then find something else to do. I find that's the best thing for people who have trouble saying no - find lots of things they suddenly need to be busy doing so they don't have to deal with the aftermath and can get their nerves under control in private.

Really? I know this woman was clearly rude, but if my friend has been telling me about her great beach vacations for years & I say to her one day "you know, I'd love to join you guys sometime, if you're looking for new people to join in. But if not, no worries.' Would that be rude?

I know that's not a question, per se (and I gave her an out) so does that make it different/less rude?

I would never randomly ask/demand someone that I barely knew (like what happened to the OP), but if I was close enough to someone that they were sharing  details of their trips (or of their life) with me, then it wouldn't strike me as rude to make a question/statement mentioning that I'd be interested in X thing too. Am I incorrect in that thinking?

I think that's fine, though it might be better to let her give you an opening before asking. If someone says, "We usually vacation with So-and-So, but they can't come this year," then it makes more sense to say, "Oh, well, we're available if you're looking for someone to help split costs." But I do think your way is fine since you didn't say "Can I go this year?" but rather, "If at some point in some hypothetical future you're thinking of inviting someone new along, we would be interested," which is rather a different thing IMO.