Author Topic: No-Tipping Policy In Restaurant  (Read 6813 times)

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Millionaire Maria

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Re: No-Tipping Policy In Restaurant
« Reply #45 on: June 17, 2014, 04:06:59 PM »
I also object to it because getting approved for credit is incredibly difficult if the majority of your income is not wages or salary.
People everywhere enjoy believing in things they know are not true. It spares them the ordeal of thinking for themselves and taking responsibility for what they know. –Brooks Atkinson

Onyx_TKD

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Re: No-Tipping Policy In Restaurant
« Reply #46 on: June 17, 2014, 04:07:31 PM »
Hmmm, I guess I didn't think about it like that. But if it's not the money that people objects to in a tipping culture, what is it? I'm not trying to be snarky, I genuinely want to know.

Well, for me, I have no desire to be involved in deciding my server's pay. I want to pay for the goods and services I receive, like I do with almost every other good and/or service I purchase, and leave the server's salary between them and their employer. If the service is bad, I can complain to management...just like with any other non-tipped service.* I don't want to have to keep track of the "standard" tip (that society never seems to reach a consensus on and may change from area to area). I don't want to wonder what "message" will be read from my tip and whether it has any relation to my actual level of satisfaction with the service. I don't want to be held responsible for whether or not my server is taking home enough pay--paying their employees is supposed to be the employer's responsibility.

*Incidentally, there are several counter-service places where I regularly buy lunch. Many of the employees know me and I have always received excellent, friendly service. There is no expectation of tipping at any of these places, and if there is any tip jar out, I haven't noticed it and have never used it. That's what I would love to see for sit-down service as well--I pay for what I'm purchasing, their employer pays them for their service and prices the food to accommodate that, and the employees give good service just because it's the right way to perform their jobs (and stay employed).

Also, this:
I dislike it because it inserts an aura of uncertainty--am I tipping enough? too much? If I tip a lot, will I create a world in which other people who have less $ feel pressured to tip more?

lowspark

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Re: No-Tipping Policy In Restaurant
« Reply #47 on: June 17, 2014, 04:17:16 PM »
I like looking at a price and knowing this is how much I will pay plus tax

This.
In addition, I'd like to see pricing here like it is in other countries, where tax is also included. At least that's how it was when I visited London several years ago. If the price was marked £5, well, that's exactly what you paid. No more, no less. This went for menu prices and everything else.

Not seeing the final price, listed right there on the menu was a culture shock which my parents, who immigrated to the US before I was born, really never got over. Due to that, they almost never ate in full service restaurants where tipping was required. It just went totally against their grain.

It's just so much cleaner and easier to see the actual price, including everything, right there in front of you, with no additional figuring required.

And I totally agree that it's a ridiculous assumption that servers will suddenly start doing a crummy job simply because they are no longer earning tips. If that were true, the reverse would be true. Every server would now be giving the very best service imaginable since their tips do depend on it. And that certainly isn't the way it is.

Sophia

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Re: No-Tipping Policy In Restaurant
« Reply #48 on: June 17, 2014, 04:24:10 PM »
I would avoid the restaurant.  I see it as equivalent to a forced tip which makes me grumpy.
 
I have noticed that the restaurant service in Germany was sub-par until I got my bosses permission to tip 15%, then service was excellent.  There is more to waiting table than taking an order and bringing it to the table.

kategillian

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Re: No-Tipping Policy In Restaurant
« Reply #49 on: June 17, 2014, 04:30:03 PM »

And I totally agree that it's a ridiculous assumption that servers will suddenly start doing a crummy job simply because they are no longer earning tips. If that were true, the reverse would be true. Every server would now be giving the very best service imaginable since their tips do depend on it. And that certainly isn't the way it is.
[/quote]

This kind of goes to my point that the decision to be taken out of your hands. Right now if you get bad service it can be reflected in your tip, but if we switch to the other way and you get bad service you won't have a choice.

lowspark

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Re: No-Tipping Policy In Restaurant
« Reply #50 on: June 17, 2014, 04:35:40 PM »
Quote
And I totally agree that it's a ridiculous assumption that servers will suddenly start doing a crummy job simply because they are no longer earning tips. If that were true, the reverse would be true. Every server would now be giving the very best service imaginable since their tips do depend on it. And that certainly isn't the way it is.

This kind of goes to my point that the decision to be taken out of your hands. Right now if you get bad service it can be reflected in your tip, but if we switch to the other way and you get bad service you won't have a choice.

To me, it proves that leaving the option to tip in the customer's hands does not guarantee good service.
So by the same token, taking it out of the customer's hands would not incentivize bad service.


Millionaire Maria

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Re: No-Tipping Policy In Restaurant
« Reply #51 on: June 17, 2014, 04:35:53 PM »

And I totally agree that it's a ridiculous assumption that servers will suddenly start doing a crummy job simply because they are no longer earning tips. If that were true, the reverse would be true. Every server would now be giving the very best service imaginable since their tips do depend on it. And that certainly isn't the way it is.

This kind of goes to my point that the decision to be taken out of your hands. Right now if you get bad service it can be reflected in your tip, but if we switch to the other way and you get bad service you won't have a choice.
[/quote]

How is that different than any other industry, though? Because unless you think there's something special about people in the food service industry, shouldn't you also be advocating that mechanics not get paid for labor, they can just be tipped? That way you could get your car back sooner.
People everywhere enjoy believing in things they know are not true. It spares them the ordeal of thinking for themselves and taking responsibility for what they know. –Brooks Atkinson

kategillian

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Re: No-Tipping Policy In Restaurant
« Reply #52 on: June 17, 2014, 04:39:32 PM »
I asure you that there are mechanics out there that will put your car to the front of the line, if you slip them a little something extra.

Millionaire Maria

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Re: No-Tipping Policy In Restaurant
« Reply #53 on: June 17, 2014, 04:43:41 PM »
I asure you that there are mechanics out there that will put your car to the front of the line, if you slip them a little something extra.

Will they put your car to the front of the line if you tell them, up front, that you won't be paying them anything for labor unless they do? Because that is what tipping culture has become in the food service industry.
People everywhere enjoy believing in things they know are not true. It spares them the ordeal of thinking for themselves and taking responsibility for what they know. –Brooks Atkinson

kategillian

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Re: No-Tipping Policy In Restaurant
« Reply #54 on: June 17, 2014, 04:51:18 PM »
I'm sorry, I'm not getting what you're saying there.

lowspark

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Re: No-Tipping Policy In Restaurant
« Reply #55 on: June 17, 2014, 04:52:05 PM »
I asure you that there are mechanics out there that will put your car to the front of the line, if you slip them a little something extra.

Whose car will they put at the front of the line if everyone is expected to tip? Won't we just end up right back where we are now?

marcel

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Re: No-Tipping Policy In Restaurant
« Reply #56 on: June 17, 2014, 05:17:47 PM »
I'm sorry, I'm not getting what you're saying there.
In the current US payment culture for waitstaff (which as I said earlier is not tipping culture at all) you are telling your waiter that unless they give you excellent service you will not pay them. So in your equivalent of the mechanic, you would not slip him something to put you in the front of the line, but yo0u are saying unless you put me in the front of the line, I will not pay you.
Wherever you go..... There you are.

marcel

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Re: No-Tipping Policy In Restaurant
« Reply #57 on: June 17, 2014, 05:22:19 PM »
i think this is a very good initiative. At the moment the US does not have a tipping culture, it has a variable pay culture. A lot of restaurants doing this for a few years, (enough to make it the standard method for restaurants) is probably the best way to get the US  back to a tipping culture.


$10 or 20 percent of hourly food sales - makes me wonder if waitstaff might be tempted to hurry one table along in order to seat the next family and sell them more food.
That is what waitstaff in a high tipping environment do anyway. It is actualy the reason I generaly prefer European restaurants over US ones

Confused, here. I've not seen no tipping in the US and we have been to large cities in the past few years and not run into a that situation.

I would abide by it and see what happens culturally if it catches on.
Let me clarify. tipping culture is what most of the world has. You enjoy your meal, and when you are very happen, you give a small financial token of appreciation to your waiter.


What the US has is a payment culture for waitstaff, where the customer decides after the dinner how much the received service is worth this is no longer tipping, no matter what you call it.
Wherever you go..... There you are.

Millionaire Maria

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Re: No-Tipping Policy In Restaurant
« Reply #58 on: June 17, 2014, 05:23:06 PM »
I'm sorry, I'm not getting what you're saying there.

I'm under the impression that you are attempting to argue that tipping culture is already present in the automotive repair industry. What I'm saying is that it's not. At least, not in a way that is remotely comparable to the food service industry.

If I were to walk into a mechanic's shop and say: "I need an oil change. I'll pay you for the oil and for the use of the equipment, but I'm not agreeing to pay you any labor costs until the job is done. And when it is done, I'll determine your hourly labor rate based on how happy I am with the job. And just so you know, I don't like your tattoo, so don't expect me to be generous." there is no way that mechanic would shuffle your car to the front of the line. You'd be lucky if he agreed to do the job at all.

When you (general) walk into a restaurant, you don't even need to say the above, because everyone already understands that that is the situation.

So my question is, if the above dialogue wouldn't work for getting better service out of a mechanic, why do we assume it works on servers? What is different about people in the food service industry that they tolerate that situation? I don't think those people are different. I think that society has, over the years, tolerated tipping culture to the point that we have reached this ridiculousness.

These restaurants are trying to change that. I fail to see how that's not a positive thing for everyone.
People everywhere enjoy believing in things they know are not true. It spares them the ordeal of thinking for themselves and taking responsibility for what they know. –Brooks Atkinson

kategillian

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Re: No-Tipping Policy In Restaurant
« Reply #59 on: June 17, 2014, 05:41:07 PM »
Oh, no, I don't think car mechanic are part of the tipping culture. I just think some of them WILL slip your car to the head of the line, if you give them something extra. and there are a lot of people that we're 'supposed' to tip, like hairdressers & valets. And it works in the restaurant industry because it is expected at this point.

I certainly wish them luck! They're up front about it, so everyone knows what they're getting into.