Author Topic: No-Tipping Policy In Restaurant  (Read 7099 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Millionaire Maria

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2817
  • Truth and Happiness create each other.
Re: No-Tipping Policy In Restaurant
« Reply #60 on: June 17, 2014, 06:00:51 PM »
Oh, no, I don't think car mechanic are part of the tipping culture. I just think some of them WILL slip your car to the head of the line, if you give them something extra. and there are a lot of people that we're 'supposed' to tip, like hairdressers & valets. And it works in the restaurant industry because it is expected at this point.

I certainly wish them luck! They're up front about it, so everyone knows what they're getting into.

Yes, that was my original point. And my question to you then, if you are in favor of keeping tipping culture in the food service industry, because you like being able to pay for labor based on your assessment of their performance, why are you not also advocating having tipping culture in the automotive repair industry for the same reasons?
People everywhere enjoy believing in things they know are not true. It spares them the ordeal of thinking for themselves and taking responsibility for what they know. –Brooks Atkinson

kategillian

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 210
Re: No-Tipping Policy In Restaurant
« Reply #61 on: June 17, 2014, 06:21:45 PM »
Oh, no, I don't think car mechanic are part of the tipping culture. I just think some of them WILL slip your car to the head of the line, if you give them something extra. and there are a lot of people that we're 'supposed' to tip, like hairdressers & valets. And it works in the restaurant industry because it is expected at this point.

I certainly wish them luck! They're up front about it, so everyone knows what they're getting into.

Yes, that was my original point. And my question to you then, if you are in favor of keeping tipping culture in the food service industry, because you like being able to pay for labor based on your assessment of their performance, why are you not also advocating having tipping culture in the automotive repair industry for the same reasons?

But then we WOULD just be paying for the parts, it would cost less, and I would have no problem tipping.

Millionaire Maria

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2817
  • Truth and Happiness create each other.
Re: No-Tipping Policy In Restaurant
« Reply #62 on: June 17, 2014, 06:25:35 PM »
Oh, no, I don't think car mechanic are part of the tipping culture. I just think some of them WILL slip your car to the head of the line, if you give them something extra. and there are a lot of people that we're 'supposed' to tip, like hairdressers & valets. And it works in the restaurant industry because it is expected at this point.

I certainly wish them luck! They're up front about it, so everyone knows what they're getting into.

Yes, that was my original point. And my question to you then, if you are in favor of keeping tipping culture in the food service industry, because you like being able to pay for labor based on your assessment of their performance, why are you not also advocating having tipping culture in the automotive repair industry for the same reasons?

But then we WOULD just be paying for the parts, it would cost less, and I would have no problem tipping.

But the question isn't if you "would have a problem with it", the question is "would you prefer that system to the system we have now?"
People everywhere enjoy believing in things they know are not true. It spares them the ordeal of thinking for themselves and taking responsibility for what they know. –Brooks Atkinson

Sharnita

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 21470
Re: No-Tipping Policy In Restaurant
« Reply #63 on: June 17, 2014, 06:34:53 PM »
$10 or 20 percent of hourly food sales - makes me wonder if waitstaff might be tempted to hurry one table along in order to seat the next family and sell them more food.

They already are, aren't they?

Not exactly. They try to strike a balance.  Yes they think about the next table but they have to make the current table happy if they want a good tip. So if that table wants to linger,  get a refill, etc. there might be a profit in that through the tip.

When people describe service in countried without tipping it sounds a bit less "warm" for lack of a better word. It would be interesting to see if there was a shift like this in a nontipping restaurant in a society that still embraced tipping overall.

wolfie

  • I don't know what this is so I am putting random words here
  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 7021
Re: No-Tipping Policy In Restaurant
« Reply #64 on: June 17, 2014, 06:55:14 PM »
$10 or 20 percent of hourly food sales - makes me wonder if waitstaff might be tempted to hurry one table along in order to seat the next family and sell them more food.

They already are, aren't they?

Not exactly. They try to strike a balance.  Yes they think about the next table but they have to make the current table happy if they want a good tip. So if that table wants to linger,  get a refill, etc. there might be a profit in that through the tip.

When people describe service in countried without tipping it sounds a bit less "warm" for lack of a better word. It would be interesting to see if there was a shift like this in a nontipping restaurant in a society that still embraced tipping overall.

Part of that is cultural too. Many counties that don't have a tipping culture don't  want servers who are that "warm" either. 

Millionaire Maria

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2817
  • Truth and Happiness create each other.
Re: No-Tipping Policy In Restaurant
« Reply #65 on: June 17, 2014, 06:58:15 PM »
$10 or 20 percent of hourly food sales - makes me wonder if waitstaff might be tempted to hurry one table along in order to seat the next family and sell them more food.

They already are, aren't they?

Not exactly. They try to strike a balance.  Yes they think about the next table but they have to make the current table happy if they want a good tip. So if that table wants to linger,  get a refill, etc. there might be a profit in that through the tip.

When people describe service in countried without tipping it sounds a bit less "warm" for lack of a better word. It would be interesting to see if there was a shift like this in a nontipping restaurant in a society that still embraced tipping overall.

Part of that is cultural too. Many counties that don't have a tipping culture don't  want servers who are that "warm" either.

I live in Canada and one of the most irritating things about eating out for me is that I find waitstaff too warm. I know they're doing it to make more money, not to irritate me, so I don't tip less when they do it. But I will tip a little more to an attentive but mostly invisible server- especially if I'm reading.
People everywhere enjoy believing in things they know are not true. It spares them the ordeal of thinking for themselves and taking responsibility for what they know. –Brooks Atkinson

shhh its me

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 6981
Re: No-Tipping Policy In Restaurant
« Reply #66 on: June 17, 2014, 07:15:08 PM »
There's a new restaurant not too far from me that intends to do this, as well.

As much as I applaud the idea, I think that they could have trouble recruiting staff.  Here, wait-staff must be paid the provincial minimum wage.  And in high-end restaurants, especially those in tourist areas (such as the one I'm referring to), the waiters can make a very nice living even after portioning tips out to support staff.

They will have trouble recruiting if they are offering significantly less than minimum wages plus tips. If they are offering close to that, they won't.

I think they may have more problems with patrons, since their menu prices will have to be higher than other restaurants, to pay that salary. Some people will have no problem seeing that they won't have to add 15% or 20% on top of the price, others will feel it is too expensive, since they will still be mentally add a tip, from habit.

Add the people who weren't tipping would be paying more.

I'm not sure if it will succeed but I think its a good idea to at least try.

Katana_Geldar

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1823
Re: No-Tipping Policy In Restaurant
« Reply #67 on: June 17, 2014, 07:19:45 PM »
I hate too "warm" wait staff when it's clear they aren't being genuine and just talking to you so it looks like they're being attentive. Such as when they ask over and over if I'm enjoying my meal.

We tipped at a restaurant recently, actually. Australia, so no rtpping culture but DH and do occasionally like being generous with above and beyond service. It was a high end restaurant for my birthday, and it was fantastic. This restaurant is known for the little touches they give that you normally wouldn't see, like an amuse bouche before entrees and a palate cleanser between mains and dessert.dining there is not just a meal, it's an experience.

kategillian

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 210
Re: No-Tipping Policy In Restaurant
« Reply #68 on: June 17, 2014, 07:25:41 PM »
Oh, no, I don't think car mechanic are part of the tipping culture. I just think some of them WILL slip your car to the head of the line, if you give them something extra. and there are a lot of people that we're 'supposed' to tip, like hairdressers & valets. And it works in the restaurant industry because it is expected at this point.

I certainly wish them luck! They're up front about it, so everyone knows what they're getting into.

Yes, that was my original point. And my question to you then, if you are in favor of keeping tipping culture in the food service industry, because you like being able to pay for labor based on your assessment of their performance, why are you not also advocating having tipping culture in the automotive repair industry for the same reasons?

But then we WOULD just be paying for the parts, it would cost less, and I would have no problem tipping.

But the question isn't if you "would have a problem with it", the question is "would you prefer that system to the system we have now?"


Well, if that's the underlying question, then no. No, I would not prefer it to the system that we have now.

Millionaire Maria

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2817
  • Truth and Happiness create each other.
Re: No-Tipping Policy In Restaurant
« Reply #69 on: June 17, 2014, 07:38:59 PM »
Oh, no, I don't think car mechanic are part of the tipping culture. I just think some of them WILL slip your car to the head of the line, if you give them something extra. and there are a lot of people that we're 'supposed' to tip, like hairdressers & valets. And it works in the restaurant industry because it is expected at this point.

I certainly wish them luck! They're up front about it, so everyone knows what they're getting into.

Yes, that was my original point. And my question to you then, if you are in favor of keeping tipping culture in the food service industry, because you like being able to pay for labor based on your assessment of their performance, why are you not also advocating having tipping culture in the automotive repair industry for the same reasons?

But then we WOULD just be paying for the parts, it would cost less, and I would have no problem tipping.

But the question isn't if you "would have a problem with it", the question is "would you prefer that system to the system we have now?"


Well, if that's the underlying question, then no. No, I would not prefer it to the system that we have now.

Then why do you prefer it in the food service industry?
People everywhere enjoy believing in things they know are not true. It spares them the ordeal of thinking for themselves and taking responsibility for what they know. –Brooks Atkinson

Marga

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 122
Re: No-Tipping Policy In Restaurant
« Reply #70 on: June 17, 2014, 07:49:38 PM »
I'm reading all this with a keen interest. I come from a non-tipping culture (the Netherlands) and I love it.
Service in the food industry is, on the whole, awesome, servers are friendly, polite, knowledgeable and know when to leave the customers be. You're also not rushed: when you occupy a table in a restaurant for dinner, you're not expected to relinquish it to the next customer, it's yours for the evening. So you can linger over your coffee, just talking with your company, or reading your book even, without any (pointed) looks from the waitstaff. Also the waitstaff doesn't try to ingratiate themselves to you, in the hopes of a better tip: there's no need to grovel when they're paid a living wage (usually well above the legal minimum wage).
And if the service is really, really good? Then you can decide to tip, as generously as you like, keeping in mind that 10% is considered very generous indeed. Or you don't tip, that's fine as well: tips are appreciated but never expected.
And if the service is bad? You complain and/or vote with your feet, as you do in any other kind of business.

sammycat

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 6079
Re: No-Tipping Policy In Restaurant
« Reply #71 on: June 17, 2014, 08:05:45 PM »
When people describe service in countried without tipping it sounds a bit less "warm" for lack of a better word. It would be interesting to see if there was a shift like this in a nontipping restaurant in a society that still embraced tipping overall.

I live in a non-tipping country (Australia) and have also visited the US many times (with an upcoming trip in a few months).  I can't say I've noticed any difference in the service between the two counties. I've had good and bad in both places; mainly good thankfully.  In any event, I absolutely hate waitstaff (or anyone in a business transaction really) being too friendly and trying to ingratiate themselves into my situation. But if they are going to be super friendly, I'd rather they did it because it was just a genuine part of their personality (or work ethic) rather than because they're trying to squeeze another dollar out of me.

The main difference is that in the US I feel as though I have to 'critique' the service all the time to work out whether it's worth a good/very good/1 penny tip. I can't simply relax and enjoy my meal and conversation with my companions. I also feel as though the waitstaff are only being nice because they're trying to get a bigger tip, rather than because it's their job and serving their customers well is part of the basic job description. The difference in menu prices is so minimal so as not to be a concern, so I really, really, really, resent having to pay extra for my dining experience simply because the waitstaff aren't paid properly by their employer. In fact, by the time tax and tip have been added onto the menu price, the US meal probably ends up being more expensive than a similar one here.

It's also extremely frustrating to not know how much my meal is going to cost until the bill comes because that's when tax and tip is added.  When I look at  a menu here and the hamburger has a price next to it of $6.95, then I know that that is all I am going to pay for my meal. Not $6.95 + ??Tip + ??Tax.

I just wish the restaurant in the OP was in one of the places we'll be visiting during our upcoming trip as I'd make sure we dined there. Often.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2014, 05:16:29 AM by sammycat »

kategillian

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 210
Re: No-Tipping Policy In Restaurant
« Reply #72 on: June 17, 2014, 08:13:40 PM »
Oh, no, I don't think car mechanic are part of the tipping culture. I just think some of them WILL slip your car to the head of the line, if you give them something extra. and there are a lot of people that we're 'supposed' to tip, like hairdressers & valets. And it works in the restaurant industry because it is expected at this point.

I certainly wish them luck! They're up front about it, so everyone knows what they're getting into.

Yes, that was my original point. And my question to you then, if you are in favor of keeping tipping culture in the food service industry, because you like being able to pay for labor based on your assessment of their performance, why are you not also advocating having tipping culture in the automotive repair industry for the same reasons?

But then we WOULD just be paying for the parts, it would cost less, and I would have no problem tipping.

But the question isn't if you "would have a problem with it", the question is "would you prefer that system to the system we have now?"


Well, if that's the underlying question, then no. No, I would not prefer it to the system that we have now.

Then why do you prefer it in the food service industry?

 Because it has always worked for me. I tip more for good service, and tip less for bad service. How many times have you been in a store or doctors office or whatever and gotten lousy service and thought, well, I could tell them about this, but a) they probably won't care, & b) I have to take time out of my busy life to have this conversation. (I'm sure some people will care, but mostly, I really don't think that they do.) I know that they have whole departments dedicated to customer service, but who is really reading all of these notes we leave?

 A couple of weeks ago my phone did one of those mandatory updates, and five minutes later it just died. So I had to go online and have a conversation about it and get a new phone, and of course it was Memorial Day weekend so they couldn't ship it out til Tuesday, so I didn't have a phone for 5 days. Now, I wrote them a letter about how disappointed I was, and maybe they shouldn't do this on holiday weekends. Did I hear a reply? No, of course I did not.

Sorry, I know that was off topic, but it was an example of being able to give an immediate review ( a less than great tip) as opposed to just sending your review off into to universe, and hoping someone cares.

Millionaire Maria

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2817
  • Truth and Happiness create each other.
Re: No-Tipping Policy In Restaurant
« Reply #73 on: June 17, 2014, 08:58:38 PM »

Well, if that's the underlying question, then no. No, I would not prefer it to the system that we have now.

Then why do you prefer it in the food service industry?

 Because it has always worked for me. I tip more for good service, and tip less for bad service. How many times have you been in a store or doctors office or whatever and gotten lousy service and thought, well, I could tell them about this, but a) they probably won't care, & b) I have to take time out of my busy life to have this conversation. (I'm sure some people will care, but mostly, I really don't think that they do.) I know that they have whole departments dedicated to customer service, but who is really reading all of these notes we leave?

 A couple of weeks ago my phone did one of those mandatory updates, and five minutes later it just died. So I had to go online and have a conversation about it and get a new phone, and of course it was Memorial Day weekend so they couldn't ship it out til Tuesday, so I didn't have a phone for 5 days. Now, I wrote them a letter about how disappointed I was, and maybe they shouldn't do this on holiday weekends. Did I hear a reply? No, of course I did not.

Sorry, I know that was off topic, but it was an example of being able to give an immediate review ( a less than great tip) as opposed to just sending your review off into to universe, and hoping someone cares.

I don't think you understand my question. I get how tipping works and I get why people think it's effective. I know that people like it because it's an opportunity to give immediate feedback for service. What I don't understand is why some people prefer a system of immediate feedback for people in the food service industry, but not in other industries.
People everywhere enjoy believing in things they know are not true. It spares them the ordeal of thinking for themselves and taking responsibility for what they know. –Brooks Atkinson

Goosey

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1050
Re: No-Tipping Policy In Restaurant
« Reply #74 on: June 17, 2014, 09:52:26 PM »
As to immediate review, there is always the option of getting the manager. Just like anywhere else. "Can I speak to a manager please" instead of "I don't like your service so I'm going to dock your pay".

I think the idea that tips are important in promoting good performance is absolutely wrong. Do you know what drives good performance? Raises. And security. And promotions. And bonuses. And awards. People will work hard to excel and advance. The desperation that comes with "I hope this guy
doesn't stiff me" or "I have the slow shift this week. I hope I can pay my rent" or "why was my tip so low? I did everything right" absolutely does not drive good performance.

It's also important to note that while a tipping culture may work for an individual, it can also be very harmful to people in general. I'm sure a lot of people like the "No tip!!" option as a form of punishment. But, unless you'd like it done to you, I'd try to imagine yourself in their shoes.