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Author Topic: Sober for October - Those who are determined to make one cave in  (Read 6968 times)

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Wordgeek

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Re: Sober for October - Those who are determined to make one cave in
« Reply #30 on: October 04, 2014, 06:04:26 PM »
Please stop it with the insulting suggestions that the OP is "baiting" her friends when she mentions her drink preferences.

iridaceae

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Re: Sober for October - Those who are determined to make one cave in
« Reply #31 on: October 05, 2014, 05:18:51 AM »
I'm a lifelong non-drinker simply because I detest that alcohol aftertaste. I don't preach. I don't tell others not to except when it comes to drinking and driving. I just order a diet soda.  The amount of pressure you can get to "just order one-I'll pay!" and the intense questioning sometimes followed by a rant about how I'm judging them and they won't stand for it! is sometimes midblowing. People can care greatly whether you drink alcohol or not. Needless to say my friends couldn't care less.

I am actually happy now that I can truthfully say I don't for medical reasons.
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catwhiskers

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Re: Sober for October - Those who are determined to make one cave in
« Reply #32 on: October 06, 2014, 04:38:45 AM »
I'm going to be the voice of dissent here. While the friend shouldn't have pushed on the drinking issue, I think you started the problem by trying to change the terms of the invitation. The invitation wasn't a general "let's get together for my birthday" or even "come hang out with me at [Location]." It was specifically an invitation to go out for "a drink." You clearly understood that he meant alcohol, since you felt the need to clarify you wouldn't be "boozing." There's nothing wrong or unfriendly about having specific plans and expecting invitees to either accept the plans as-is or decline.

If you didn't want to drink, the appropriate answer to that invitation is "no." Instead, you tried to accept the invitation and change the terms--you'd come along and hang out while he drank. But you've said yourself that you find it uncomfortable to be the only one drinking, so why would he to want to do that? You could have declined the original invitation and offered an alternative, e.g., "Sorry, I'm not up for drinking tomorrow. I'd be available for dinner or coffee, if you want. Otherwise, have fun without me!" Then, I would agree that he would absolutely be rude to push you to drink instead. However, you left him in the unpleasant position of either explicitly uninviting you (incredibly rude under most circumstances), changing the activity to suit you, being the only one drinking (uncomfortable), or (rudely) trying to convince you to go along with the original invitation. Unfortunately, he chose the only unambiguously rude option, but you didn't help matters by putting him in that position in the first place.

As an analogy, what if you invited someone to go out to dinner, and they said "Sure! I'll come, but I'm fasting so I'll just hang out while you eat"? Or, you invited someone to go to the Cake Festival to try the sampling menu, and they said "Yeah, I want to go! But I'm dieting, so I'll just get a salad." Or, you invited someone to go see [Horror Film], and they said "Yeah, but I get nightmares from scary films, so I'll bring earplugs and read a book?" Would you be ok with that or would you feel like they'd twisted your invitation into something completely different? There's nothing wrong with fasting, dieting, or not wanting to watch scary movies, but the simple fact is that they're incompatible with certain invitations, and it's the individual's responsibility to accept or decline accordingly.

I honestly don't understand this post. It's possible to "go out for a drink" with someone and drink something that doesn't have alcohol in it. It wouldn't bother me at all to go out to a bar with a friend if they only wanted to drink coke or fruit juice all night. They are still drinking with me. It doesn't compare at all to going out for a meal and then just sitting watching the other person eat.

MariaE

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Re: Sober for October - Those who are determined to make one cave in
« Reply #33 on: October 06, 2014, 05:01:39 AM »
I'm going to be the voice of dissent here. While the friend shouldn't have pushed on the drinking issue, I think you started the problem by trying to change the terms of the invitation. The invitation wasn't a general "let's get together for my birthday" or even "come hang out with me at [Location]." It was specifically an invitation to go out for "a drink." You clearly understood that he meant alcohol, since you felt the need to clarify you wouldn't be "boozing." There's nothing wrong or unfriendly about having specific plans and expecting invitees to either accept the plans as-is or decline.

If you didn't want to drink, the appropriate answer to that invitation is "no." Instead, you tried to accept the invitation and change the terms--you'd come along and hang out while he drank. But you've said yourself that you find it uncomfortable to be the only one drinking, so why would he to want to do that? You could have declined the original invitation and offered an alternative, e.g., "Sorry, I'm not up for drinking tomorrow. I'd be available for dinner or coffee, if you want. Otherwise, have fun without me!" Then, I would agree that he would absolutely be rude to push you to drink instead. However, you left him in the unpleasant position of either explicitly uninviting you (incredibly rude under most circumstances), changing the activity to suit you, being the only one drinking (uncomfortable), or (rudely) trying to convince you to go along with the original invitation. Unfortunately, he chose the only unambiguously rude option, but you didn't help matters by putting him in that position in the first place.

As an analogy, what if you invited someone to go out to dinner, and they said "Sure! I'll come, but I'm fasting so I'll just hang out while you eat"? Or, you invited someone to go to the Cake Festival to try the sampling menu, and they said "Yeah, I want to go! But I'm dieting, so I'll just get a salad." Or, you invited someone to go see [Horror Film], and they said "Yeah, but I get nightmares from scary films, so I'll bring earplugs and read a book?" Would you be ok with that or would you feel like they'd twisted your invitation into something completely different? There's nothing wrong with fasting, dieting, or not wanting to watch scary movies, but the simple fact is that they're incompatible with certain invitations, and it's the individual's responsibility to accept or decline accordingly.

I honestly don't understand this post. It's possible to "go out for a drink" with someone and drink something that doesn't have alcohol in it. It wouldn't bother me at all to go out to a bar with a friend if they only wanted to drink coke or fruit juice all night. They are still drinking with me. It doesn't compare at all to going out for a meal and then just sitting watching the other person eat.

I would have agreed with you if Hollanda hadn't said herself that she didn't like to "be the only one drinking". So if Hollanda (outside Sober October) asked somebody out for a drink, and that other person told her that (s)he wouldn't be drinking, Hollanda would no longer feel comfortable drinking either.

I don't know if Hollanda's friend feels the same way, or if he's just being a bully, but because of this statement, I can see where Onyx_TKD is coming from.

That said, personally I'd probably have said nothing, come along and just ordered something non-alcoholic. If he wanted to make a scene about that in public, then that would reflect a lot more on him that it would on me, and would give me food for thought, whether I actually wanted to socialize with him at all. A simple question, "Oh, you're not drinking?" is one thing. Making a scene is another altogether.
 
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Hollanda

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Re: Sober for October - Those who are determined to make one cave in
« Reply #34 on: October 06, 2014, 06:53:45 AM »

 But hey.  My spine is intact, and I just keep on asking the question "Why would I want to do that?" (And ruin my hard work thus far??)


LOL.  Sorry I'm not poking fun, but it did strike me as a bit humorous as we are only on the 3rd day of October at the moment.

It was meant to be funny!
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Hollanda

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Re: Sober for October - Those who are determined to make one cave in
« Reply #35 on: October 06, 2014, 07:09:08 AM »
I'm going to be the voice of dissent here. While the friend shouldn't have pushed on the drinking issue, I think you started the problem by trying to change the terms of the invitation. The invitation wasn't a general "let's get together for my birthday" or even "come hang out with me at [Location]." It was specifically an invitation to go out for "a drink." You clearly understood that he meant alcohol, since you felt the need to clarify you wouldn't be "boozing." There's nothing wrong or unfriendly about having specific plans and expecting invitees to either accept the plans as-is or decline.

If you didn't want to drink, the appropriate answer to that invitation is "no." Instead, you tried to accept the invitation and change the terms--you'd come along and hang out while he drank. But you've said yourself that you find it uncomfortable to be the only one drinking, so why would he to want to do that? You could have declined the original invitation and offered an alternative, e.g., "Sorry, I'm not up for drinking tomorrow. I'd be available for dinner or coffee, if you want. Otherwise, have fun without me!" Then, I would agree that he would absolutely be rude to push you to drink instead. However, you left him in the unpleasant position of either explicitly uninviting you (incredibly rude under most circumstances), changing the activity to suit you, being the only one drinking (uncomfortable), or (rudely) trying to convince you to go along with the original invitation. Unfortunately, he chose the only unambiguously rude option, but you didn't help matters by putting him in that position in the first place.

As an analogy, what if you invited someone to go out to dinner, and they said "Sure! I'll come, but I'm fasting so I'll just hang out while you eat"? Or, you invited someone to go to the Cake Festival to try the sampling menu, and they said "Yeah, I want to go! But I'm dieting, so I'll just get a salad." Or, you invited someone to go see [Horror Film], and they said "Yeah, but I get nightmares from scary films, so I'll bring earplugs and read a book?" Would you be ok with that or would you feel like they'd twisted your invitation into something completely different? There's nothing wrong with fasting, dieting, or not wanting to watch scary movies, but the simple fact is that they're incompatible with certain invitations, and it's the individual's responsibility to accept or decline accordingly.

I honestly don't understand this post. It's possible to "go out for a drink" with someone and drink something that doesn't have alcohol in it. It wouldn't bother me at all to go out to a bar with a friend if they only wanted to drink coke or fruit juice all night. They are still drinking with me. It doesn't compare at all to going out for a meal and then just sitting watching the other person eat.

I would have agreed with you if Hollanda hadn't said herself that she didn't like to "be the only one drinking". So if Hollanda (outside Sober October) asked somebody out for a drink, and that other person told her that (s)he wouldn't be drinking, Hollanda would no longer feel comfortable drinking either.

I don't know if Hollanda's friend feels the same way, or if he's just being a bully, but because of this statement, I can see where Onyx_TKD is coming from.

That said, personally I'd probably have said nothing, come along and just ordered something non-alcoholic. If he wanted to make a scene about that in public, then that would reflect a lot more on him that it would on me, and would give me food for thought, whether I actually wanted to socialize with him at all. A simple question, "Oh, you're not drinking?" is one thing. Making a scene is another altogether.

To clarify...say BFF asked me out "for a drink".  I would take that to mean a bar, as that is generally what is meant over here by "for a drink". "A coffee" usually means just that...a coffee and maybe cake at a cafe.  "Food" usually means a local cafe or McDonalds or other fast food joint.  If, say, BFF was abstaining from drinking for whatever reason, I would personally choose to drink a non alcoholic beverage too.  Maybe not even consciously.  I like to take the lead from other people...if others around me are drinking and I would like a drink, I will have one.  If I don't want one, I won't have one.  I just prefer not to be the odd one out by having a drink in a situation where nobody else at all is drinking.  It to me just feels wrong!
 
One thing I would not do is bring attention to the non-consumption of alcohol.  It could be a myriad of personal reasons she may not want to disclose, particularly in public.
 
As far as my "drinking buddy" goes, I know him.  And I know that if it *had* been a personal reason I was giving up alcohol that I didn't want to disclose, and quietly explained it to  him privately, he would 100% understand and not make a thing of it.  However, if I just bean dipped or ignored his questions, he would needle and niggle at me until a) everyone else noticed and b) it became a Big Thing.  Hence my decision to explain on the phone, to kind of get the scene over and done with.
 
Either way, it's a moot point because Friday night didn't happen in the end, he got caught up at work and DS decided he was going to make a drama out of bedtime anyway.
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Kiwipinball

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Re: Sober for October - Those who are determined to make one cave in
« Reply #36 on: October 06, 2014, 08:25:26 AM »
I'm a lifelong non-drinker simply because I detest that alcohol aftertaste. I don't preach. I don't tell others not to except when it comes to drinking and driving. I just order a diet soda.  The amount of pressure you can get to "just order one-I'll pay!" and the intense questioning sometimes followed by a rant about how I'm judging them and they won't stand for it! is sometimes midblowing. People can care greatly whether you drink alcohol or not. Needless to say my friends couldn't care less.

I am actually happy now that I can truthfully say I don't for medical reasons.

Exactly!  I don't like how alcohol tastes either and simply don't drink.  None of my friends have a problem with it (or they wouldn't be my friends) but the number of acquaintances (classmates when I was still in school mainly) would try to pressure me into drinking (bugging me about, interrogating me about why I don't drink, taking my one free drink ticket and getting something alcoholic with it for me).  It's really annoying.  It's gotten better as I've gotten older (31 now) and I think people are more aware that there are a lot of reasons people don't drink and that it's not really their business.  So while no one should make a big deal about someone ordering a soda at a bar and not saying anything else about it, there are a lot of people who will.

mime

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Re: Sober for October - Those who are determined to make one cave in
« Reply #37 on: October 06, 2014, 11:20:44 AM »
I'm a lifelong non-drinker simply because I detest that alcohol aftertaste. I don't preach. I don't tell others not to except when it comes to drinking and driving. I just order a diet soda.  The amount of pressure you can get to "just order one-I'll pay!" and the intense questioning sometimes followed by a rant about how I'm judging them and they won't stand for it! is sometimes midblowing. People can care greatly whether you drink alcohol or not. Needless to say my friends couldn't care less.

I am actually happy now that I can truthfully say I don't for medical reasons.

Exactly!  I don't like how alcohol tastes either and simply don't drink.  None of my friends have a problem with it (or they wouldn't be my friends) but the number of acquaintances (classmates when I was still in school mainly) would try to pressure me into drinking (bugging me about, interrogating me about why I don't drink, taking my one free drink ticket and getting something alcoholic with it for me).  It's really annoying.  It's gotten better as I've gotten older (31 now) and I think people are more aware that there are a lot of reasons people don't drink and that it's not really their business.  So while no one should make a big deal about someone ordering a soda at a bar and not saying anything else about it, there are a lot of people who will.

I've encountered the same things, too. I've also found that it gets better as I get older (42 now). I came to a similar conclusion as you: as people get more life-experiences, they understand that there's less need for everyone to be just like them, and they don't need to know everything.   :-\   

TootsNYC

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Re: Sober for October - Those who are determined to make one cave in
« Reply #38 on: October 06, 2014, 03:30:55 PM »
. . .. I no longer warn people in advance, tell the anti-alcohol person I am having wine with dinner, or the heavy drinker that I am don't feel like drinking that night. Oddly enough the heavy drinkers make more comments if I have wine instead of hard liquor than if I drink sprite. The people who are religiously against alcohol and coffee are equally upset if I have a cup of coffee, an expensive Starbuck concoction, wine, or row of shots  ::) If someone objects and makes mention of whatever I am drinking I simply point out that it is none of their business. If they say anything in response I let them know that maybe they aren't in the mood to hang out with me tonight. Third comment I pay my bill immediately and leave and let them know I will see them when they feel better about hanging out. Currently there is only one person who still seems to care what I am drinking and instead of saying anything she makes a big show of moving her chair away from the beverage, acting like it is a poisonous snake that is going to attack her, but she stopped making comments after I walked out of the restaurant in the middle of our meal.


Oooh, you play hardball! I kinda like that.

The bolded phrase is really a great strategy. Because it points out: the *people* are the point. The company is the point. The food, and the beverage, are just the excuse.

I also think that when someone starts in on why you* are not drinking and won't let go, it's probably time to change the conversation topic away from what you're drinking to "why do you care so much? What's wrong with -you- that you can't let this go?"
   *hypothetical "you"

Also, I'm a big fan of the cut-and-paste "I don't want a drink right now."

ChinaShepherdess

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Re: Sober for October - Those who are determined to make one cave in
« Reply #39 on: October 10, 2014, 04:55:08 PM »
I sometimes go through non-drinking phases (no particular reason; sometimes I'm just not in the mood for a few months, and other times I party 'til the break of dawn, etc.) and this thread is making me happy that I've never had a friend question me. If someone asks whether I was part o their pitcher or whether I'd like a drink, I'll say, "Not in the mood tonight" or "Can't -- I've got to write later and I never write after a drink!" (a handy excuse, and a true one) and no one's ever hassled me. It's easier in group settings, though, where multiple people are drinking so no one would feel uncomfortable with the presence of a non-drinker. When people ask me out for one-on-one drinks when I'm not in the mood to drink, my immediate inclination is to suggest an alternate venue -- either something non-alcoholic (ice cream or tea!) or a restaurant with a nice bar, so we can split a small-plate appetizer and my friend can feel reassured that we're both happily enjoying our indulgence of choice.

darkprincess

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Re: Sober for October - Those who are determined to make one cave in
« Reply #40 on: October 16, 2014, 12:32:20 PM »
. . .. I no longer warn people in advance, tell the anti-alcohol person I am having wine with dinner, or the heavy drinker that I am don't feel like drinking that night. Oddly enough the heavy drinkers make more comments if I have wine instead of hard liquor than if I drink sprite. The people who are religiously against alcohol and coffee are equally upset if I have a cup of coffee, an expensive Starbuck concoction, wine, or row of shots  ::) If someone objects and makes mention of whatever I am drinking I simply point out that it is none of their business. If they say anything in response I let them know that maybe they aren't in the mood to hang out with me tonight. Third comment I pay my bill immediately and leave and let them know I will see them when they feel better about hanging out. Currently there is only one person who still seems to care what I am drinking and instead of saying anything she makes a big show of moving her chair away from the beverage, acting like it is a poisonous snake that is going to attack her, but she stopped making comments after I walked out of the restaurant in the middle of our meal.


Oooh, you play hardball! I kinda like that.

The bolded phrase is really a great strategy. Because it points out: the *people* are the point. The company is the point. The food, and the beverage, are just the excuse.

I also think that when someone starts in on why you* are not drinking and won't let go, it's probably time to change the conversation topic away from what you're drinking to "why do you care so much? What's wrong with -you- that you can't let this go?"
   *hypothetical "you"

Also, I'm a big fan of the cut-and-paste "I don't want a drink right now."

I got to the point of playing hard ball because I was telling a friend about the women who acts like alcohol is a deadly snake about to bite her, and the friend asked me "why I would want to hang out with someone like that?" A light bulb in my head finally turned on and I thought "yeah, why would I want to sit and have dinner, or have a conversation with someone who was questioning my legitimate responsible drink choices.
From then on I chose not to hang out with people who are going to question my drink choices. This includes when I am drinking water and when I am drinking coffee and when I am drinking alcohol.

CreteGirl

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Re: Sober for October - Those who are determined to make one cave in
« Reply #41 on: October 16, 2014, 02:30:57 PM »

I got to the point of playing hard ball because I was telling a friend about the women who acts like alcohol is a deadly snake about to bite her, and the friend asked me "why I would want to hang out with someone like that?" A light bulb in my head finally turned on and I thought "yeah, why would I want to sit and have dinner, or have a conversation with someone who was questioning my legitimate responsible drink choices.
From then on I chose not to hang out with people who are going to question my drink choices. This includes when I am drinking water and when I am drinking coffee and when I am drinking alcohol.

Sometimes I think people question others' choice not to drink because they are hoping to hear some "dirt" on the person, like maybe they got a DUI or found themselves in some other sort of trouble.  I've had that feeling when certain people have asked my why I stopped drinking.


DanaJ

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Re: Sober for October - Those who are determined to make one cave in
« Reply #42 on: October 24, 2014, 03:17:34 PM »
Sometimes I think people question others' choice not to drink because they are hoping to hear some "dirt" on the person, like maybe they got a DUI or found themselves in some other sort of trouble.  I've had that feeling when certain people have asked my why I stopped drinking.

A former co-worker of mine (the same gossip-monger I mentioned someone' else's thread about "Oh, are they from... *dramatic pause*... him[/]?" flowers being delivered) asked me why I wasn't drinking at the company Christmas party once.

It was phrased, "So!... *dramatic pause*... Your not drinking tonight?" because the way her demented hamster ran in the squeaky wheel of her brain, that must mean... *dramatic pause*... pregnancy! I neither confirmed nor denied whether I was drinking, I just said: "I wanted some cranberry juice." Because I really did, just want some cranberry juice, andI wasn't about to enter into any kind of dialog with her about whether I was drinking alcohol or not and why.

But seriously, if I order iced tea or cranberry juice it's usually because that's what I was in the mood for.