Author Topic: If You Call After Business Hours - You Do Not Have a Scheduled Appointment  (Read 9851 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Xandraea

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 419
BeagleMommy, based on your update, you were very clear that the student needed to call you between 8am and 430pm to either agree to one of the two times you proposed, or work out another time for the interview. She didn't have an appointment at all until she called you back to confirm. Showing up was rather presumptuous, and calling Lisa in for the unexpected interview was unnecessary. The student needs to learn to communicate, especially if after college she seeks a career. Responsibility not genetic, it is learned.

Of course it was short notice, but in this day and age, most people have a cel phone, many have smartphones with which they can check voicemail, texts and email at any time of day. Even if student was out, if she knew she needed an interview to start school next week, she should have been on top of the communication.

Goosey

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1219
I may be in the minority, but I still think it's really unprofessional for someone to offer last minute appointments and then actually not be in the office during that time. If Lisa was still available, she should have been there.

Yes, most people have cell phones. But that doesn't mean they're able to check them 24/7.

Two Ravens

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2351
  • One for sorrow, Two for mirth...
I don't think the student showing up was presumptuous. If I was in her position and didn't get the message until after office hours, I would think, "Shoot, what am I supposed to do now? I'd better show up anyway, since I don't want them to think I am blowing them off."

wolfie

  • I don't know what this is so I am putting random words here
  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 7361
Thanks, guys.  I can see how my OP wording might have been confusing to the student so I went back to my outgoing messages to check the wording I used and discovered I said this:

Lisa has appointments available at either 8:30 am or 9:00 am on Wednesday.  I know this is short notice, but since the semester starts next week (student had only completed her paperwork on Monday) we'd like to schedule an interview.  Please call me at ### to let me know which time is best for you.  If you can't make either time, please let me know if there is a better time to arrange the interview.  My office hours are M-F, 8:00 am-4:30 pm

If I got that message after 4:30 I would have just shown up too. To me that message says I have either the 8:30 or the 9:00 am slot - I just need to let you know which I want or contact you to tell you neither work for me. If I couldn't get ahold of you before you left I would show up and figure I would get whatever slot is left.

Lynn2000

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 5706
Thanks, guys.  I can see how my OP wording might have been confusing to the student so I went back to my outgoing messages to check the wording I used and discovered I said this:

Lisa has appointments available at either 8:30 am or 9:00 am on Wednesday.  I know this is short notice, but since the semester starts next week (student had only completed her paperwork on Monday) we'd like to schedule an interview.  Please call me at ### to let me know which time is best for you.  If you can't make either time, please let me know if there is a better time to arrange the interview.  My office hours are M-F, 8:00 am-4:30 pm

This is one of those things I would say where to me, it's obvious that there's no appointment made until they call me back, and they need to call me back by 4:30pm. But, IME, a fair number of otherwise reasonable and responsible people would not catch the deadline. Or, due to life, they would not get my message until after the deadline, and then would be in a quandary about what to do. Responding late and then showing up at the given time, even without confirmation, to me seems like the best option at that point--isn't the other option to blow off having an interview at all, and cancel one's plans to attend school there? That's pretty serious and in the student's position I would do everything I could to patch up the situation and still get my interview.

Of course, a lot of it is attitude. If I were the student I would be apologetic and understanding, and offer to come back later if it seemed that the wires had gotten crossed--after all, I'm the one who needs the school more than the school needs me. So if the student was snotty or entitled in her attitude I can see how that would rub the OP the wrong way, and would be rude in and of itself.
~Lynn2000

Xandraea

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 419
Thanks, guys.  I can see how my OP wording might have been confusing to the student so I went back to my outgoing messages to check the wording I used and discovered I said this:

Lisa has appointments available at either 8:30 am or 9:00 am on Wednesday.  I know this is short notice, but since the semester starts next week (student had only completed her paperwork on Monday) we'd like to schedule an interview.  Please call me at ### to let me know which time is best for you.  If you can't make either time, please let me know if there is a better time to arrange the interview.  My office hours are M-F, 8:00 am-4:30 pm

This is one of those things I would say where to me, it's obvious that there's no appointment made until they call me back, and they need to call me back by 4:30pm. But, IME, a fair number of otherwise reasonable and responsible people would not catch the deadline. Or, due to life, they would not get my message until after the deadline, and then would be in a quandary about what to do. Responding late and then showing up at the given time, even without confirmation, to me seems like the best option at that point--isn't the other option to blow off having an interview at all, and cancel one's plans to attend school there? That's pretty serious and in the student's position I would do everything I could to patch up the situation and still get my interview.

Of course, a lot of it is attitude. If I were the student I would be apologetic and understanding, and offer to come back later if it seemed that the wires had gotten crossed--after all, I'm the one who needs the school more than the school needs me. So if the student was snotty or entitled in her attitude I can see how that would rub the OP the wrong way, and would be rude in and of itself.

OK, clearly I need to think more before responding sometimes.

*After further thought, and comments after mine.*

I do believe the student bears much of the responsibility, as if this was important to her, she'd be doing whatever she could to schedule the interview ASAP and be there. I've not in the past decade met a teen-20something girl who isn't constantly looking at her phone for various reasons. The phone will make a noise alerting you to new email or text or voicemail that needs to be checked, so you don't have to be looking at it constantly. If one is waiting on something important, one stays aware of notifications from the phone.

That being said, I agree with wolfie and Lynn2000, that if I had gotten the message after the deadline, I'd probably show up as well, on the off-chance one of the times were still available. As Lynn says, however, it's all about attitude. Knowing I hadn't confirmed an appointment, I'd be hoping to be worked-in somewhere in Lisa's schedule, or come back another time.

I also find it odd that the week before school starts, Lisa would be cutting back her hours, rather than making herself _more_ available for last-minute interviews and the like. I agree with others if 8:30 and 9:00am are offered as available interview times, Lisa should have been in the office at those times. This late in the game, it may be wise to have open interview hours, where walk-ins are accepted (though they may have to wait their turn). It was nice she could get herself into the office reasonably quickly when the student did show up.


Two Ravens

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2351
  • One for sorrow, Two for mirth...
Thanks, guys.  I can see how my OP wording might have been confusing to the student so I went back to my outgoing messages to check the wording I used and discovered I said this:

Lisa has appointments available at either 8:30 am or 9:00 am on Wednesday.  I know this is short notice, but since the semester starts next week (student had only completed her paperwork on Monday) we'd like to schedule an interview.  Please call me at ### to let me know which time is best for you.  If you can't make either time, please let me know if there is a better time to arrange the interview.  My office hours are M-F, 8:00 am-4:30 pm

This is one of those things I would say where to me, it's obvious that there's no appointment made until they call me back, and they need to call me back by 4:30pm. But, IME, a fair number of otherwise reasonable and responsible people would not catch the deadline. Or, due to life, they would not get my message until after the deadline, and then would be in a quandary about what to do. Responding late and then showing up at the given time, even without confirmation, to me seems like the best option at that point--isn't the other option to blow off having an interview at all, and cancel one's plans to attend school there? That's pretty serious and in the student's position I would do everything I could to patch up the situation and still get my interview.

Of course, a lot of it is attitude. If I were the student I would be apologetic and understanding, and offer to come back later if it seemed that the wires had gotten crossed--after all, I'm the one who needs the school more than the school needs me. So if the student was snotty or entitled in her attitude I can see how that would rub the OP the wrong way, and would be rude in and of itself.

OK, clearly I need to think more before responding sometimes.

*After further thought, and comments after mine.*

I do believe the student bears much of the responsibility, as if this was important to her, she'd be doing whatever she could to schedule the interview ASAP and be there. I've not in the past decade met a teen-20something girl who isn't constantly looking at her phone for various reasons. The phone will make a noise alerting you to new email or text or voicemail that needs to be checked, so you don't have to be looking at it constantly. If one is waiting on something important, one stays aware of notifications from the phone.

Wow, that's quite the stereotype. When I was a 20-something and applying to grad schools, I was working long, odd hours (2-10pm) at a job that required all phones be off. So it's quite the assumption to think she knew about the appointment and deliberately decided not to call and confirm.

Goosey

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1219
I also believe she is a grad student, not undergrad.

Just as a general note - I always check my messages first thing. I know you said you meet with Lisa first thing to go over the agenda, but that seems like it's in the wrong order. Calls left after 430 may affect your daily agenda. And, last minute issues like this can be better planned for. So, even if it means coming in a couple minutes early, I would start checking your messages earlier.

Xandraea

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 419
*snipped to shorten quote tree*

OK, clearly I need to think more before responding sometimes.

*After further thought, and comments after mine.*

I do believe the student bears much of the responsibility, as if this was important to her, she'd be doing whatever she could to schedule the interview ASAP and be there. I've not in the past decade met a teen-20something girl who isn't constantly looking at her phone for various reasons. The phone will make a noise alerting you to new email or text or voicemail that needs to be checked, so you don't have to be looking at it constantly. If one is waiting on something important, one stays aware of notifications from the phone.

Wow, that's quite the stereotype. When I was a 20-something and applying to grad schools, I was working long, odd hours (2-10pm) at a job that required all phones be off. So it's quite the assumption to think she knew about the appointment and deliberately decided not to call and confirm.

Not a stereotype, an observation. You make quite the assumption to know what exactly I'm thinking, which is _not_ that she deliberately decided not to call and confirm (because, clearly, she called). As I stated , things happen. If I were waiting on important information, I'd be checking my phone during breaks and whenever possible to get that information as soon as possible. If "asap" was after 4:30, as I said, I'd show up anyway. I also would take responsibility for not getting the message sooner after it was sent, and if the time was no longer available, I'd work from there. Clearly this student called to confirm what she thought was her appointment, and showed up. I don't presume to know whether she got the message ten minutes or 6 hours before she called.

Two Ravens, you also snipped off the entire 2nd half of my post, in which I say I believe Lisa also bears some responsibility, and that I also would have shown up in hopes of getting the interview even without a prompt confirmation.
I am not posting to be accused or to argue with others, and I do take offense to having "assumptions" misplaced in my words.

Goosey's suggestion to check messages first thing, before meeting with Lisa, is a good one.

Surianne

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 10907
    • Prince ShimmerShine Moondream's Blogging Adventure
Thanks, guys.  I can see how my OP wording might have been confusing to the student so I went back to my outgoing messages to check the wording I used and discovered I said this:

Lisa has appointments available at either 8:30 am or 9:00 am on Wednesday.  I know this is short notice, but since the semester starts next week (student had only completed her paperwork on Monday) we'd like to schedule an interview.  Please call me at ### to let me know which time is best for you.  If you can't make either time, please let me know if there is a better time to arrange the interview.  My office hours are M-F, 8:00 am-4:30 pm

If I got that message after 4:30 I would have just shown up too. To me that message says I have either the 8:30 or the 9:00 am slot - I just need to let you know which I want or contact you to tell you neither work for me. If I couldn't get ahold of you before you left I would show up and figure I would get whatever slot is left.

This is how I'd have seen it too.  I likely would have done exactly what the student did -- called you back when I got your message, and make a point to show up nice and early the next morning to see if I have the 8:30 or 9am slot.  There's no way she could have known that Lisa wouldn't be coming in.

Two Ravens

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2351
  • One for sorrow, Two for mirth...
*snipped to shorten quote tree*

OK, clearly I need to think more before responding sometimes.

*After further thought, and comments after mine.*

I do believe the student bears much of the responsibility, as if this was important to her, she'd be doing whatever she could to schedule the interview ASAP and be there. I've not in the past decade met a teen-20something girl who isn't constantly looking at her phone for various reasons. The phone will make a noise alerting you to new email or text or voicemail that needs to be checked, so you don't have to be looking at it constantly. If one is waiting on something important, one stays aware of notifications from the phone.

Wow, that's quite the stereotype. When I was a 20-something and applying to grad schools, I was working long, odd hours (2-10pm) at a job that required all phones be off. So it's quite the assumption to think she knew about the appointment and deliberately decided not to call and confirm.

Not a stereotype, an observation. You make quite the assumption to know what exactly I'm thinking, which is _not_ that she deliberately decided not to call and confirm (because, clearly, she called). As I stated , things happen. If I were waiting on important information, I'd be checking my phone during breaks and whenever possible to get that information as soon as possible. If "asap" was after 4:30, as I said, I'd show up anyway. I also would take responsibility for not getting the message sooner after it was sent, and if the time was no longer available, I'd work from there. Clearly this student called to confirm what she thought was her appointment, and showed up. I don't presume to know whether she got the message ten minutes or 6 hours before she called.

Two Ravens, you also snipped off the entire 2nd half of my post, in which I say I believe Lisa also bears some responsibility, and that I also would have shown up in hopes of getting the interview even without a prompt confirmation.
I am not posting to be accused or to argue with others, and I do take offense to having "assumptions" misplaced in my words.

Goosey's suggestion to check messages first thing, before meeting with Lisa, is a good one.

I snipped your post because I hate long quote trees and I was only responding to the part I quoted, which was that every young girl you've met for the past 10 years has had her phone glued to her hand. That may be true, but it doesn't mean every young girl is like that. Sorry I misinterpreted.

I actually agreed with the rest of your post.

Jaelle

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1526
Thanks, guys.  I can see how my OP wording might have been confusing to the student so I went back to my outgoing messages to check the wording I used and discovered I said this:

Lisa has appointments available at either 8:30 am or 9:00 am on Wednesday.  I know this is short notice, but since the semester starts next week (student had only completed her paperwork on Monday) we'd like to schedule an interview.  Please call me at ### to let me know which time is best for you.  If you can't make either time, please let me know if there is a better time to arrange the interview.  My office hours are M-F, 8:00 am-4:30 pm

Since you have voice mail, if I couldn't call back before 4:30 p.m. (perhaps she was working or otherwise out of touch), I'd figure that calling you back later and leaving a message would be adequate. I would consider leaving you a voicemail message to that effect to be a valid response.

That's making an assumption that you check your messages first thing, of course, but in my experience anyway, most people do.
“She was already learning that if you ignore the rules people will, half the time, quietly rewrite them so that they don't apply to you.”
― Terry Pratchett, Equal Rites

Hmmmmm

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 6797
Thanks, guys.  I can see how my OP wording might have been confusing to the student so I went back to my outgoing messages to check the wording I used and discovered I said this:

Lisa has appointments available at either 8:30 am or 9:00 am on Wednesday.  I know this is short notice, but since the semester starts next week (student had only completed her paperwork on Monday) we'd like to schedule an interview.  Please call me at ### to let me know which time is best for you.  If you can't make either time, please let me know if there is a better time to arrange the interview.  My office hours are M-F, 8:00 am-4:30 pm

Since you have voice mail, if I couldn't call back before 4:30 p.m. (perhaps she was working or otherwise out of touch), I'd figure that calling you back later and leaving a message would be adequate. I would consider leaving you a voicemail message to that effect to be a valid response.

That's making an assumption that you check your messages first thing, of course, but in my experience anyway, most people do.

I still say you need to be clear. "To confirm the appointment, please call by end of business day today. Otherwise please call to schedule a different time." As the recipient of your meassgae I have no reason to believe that you getting the meassgae by 8:00am is not sufficient time to confirm an 8:30am appointment.

And as others have said, we don't know why the student could not return a VM until end of day.

lollylegs

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 618
*snipped to shorten quote tree*

OK, clearly I need to think more before responding sometimes.

*After further thought, and comments after mine.*

I do believe the student bears much of the responsibility, as if this was important to her, she'd be doing whatever she could to schedule the interview ASAP and be there. I've not in the past decade met a teen-20something girl who isn't constantly looking at her phone for various reasons. The phone will make a noise alerting you to new email or text or voicemail that needs to be checked, so you don't have to be looking at it constantly. If one is waiting on something important, one stays aware of notifications from the phone.

Wow, that's quite the stereotype. When I was a 20-something and applying to grad schools, I was working long, odd hours (2-10pm) at a job that required all phones be off. So it's quite the assumption to think she knew about the appointment and deliberately decided not to call and confirm.

Not a stereotype, an observation. You make quite the assumption to know what exactly I'm thinking, which is _not_ that she deliberately decided not to call and confirm (because, clearly, she called). As I stated , things happen. If I were waiting on important information, I'd be checking my phone during breaks and whenever possible to get that information as soon as possible. If "asap" was after 4:30, as I said, I'd show up anyway. I also would take responsibility for not getting the message sooner after it was sent, and if the time was no longer available, I'd work from there. Clearly this student called to confirm what she thought was her appointment, and showed up. I don't presume to know whether she got the message ten minutes or 6 hours before she called.

Sure, but your observation isn't universal, so we can't make any general statements based on it.

It's entirely possible - probable, even - that the student called as soon as she got the message. We're talking a 24 hour period here, not days. What makes more sense - the student had a legitimate reason for calling so late, or they got the message earlier and chose to wait until 9.30 to respond?

And if this is the case, I think the student was the opposite of entitled. Her choices were to show up for an appointment she may not be booked in for, or be a no-show at an appointment she may have been booked into.  There's no doubt in my mind which option I would have chosen.

veronaz

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2225
Quote
I called the number listed on the student's application and told her Lisa could meet with her at either 8:30 am or 9:00 am Wednesday and if that was not convenient to let me know a better date/time. 

OP, you told student to let you know if the time was not convenient. Obviously the time was not a problem.  I don't see where your working hours are an issue/come into play here.