Author Topic: If You Call After Business Hours - You Do Not Have a Scheduled Appointment  (Read 9660 times)

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Roe

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I agree with PP's. I'd have shown up as well. OP, you need to be clear going forward.

nayberry

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i tend to disagree with a lot of the pp,  i read that as "call me to arrange" not "show up anyway"

shhh its me

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  I think the message was ambiguous enough thats its within reason she showed up.  "...........You can call this number to set up an interview between 8 and 4. There are appointment times available tomorrow morning. " The "If you can't make either time please call." sort of negates "We'd like to set up an interview."

staceym

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boy this is really a hard one..

when I read the OP I too thought that the only instruction was to call back if the times were NOT convenient for the student; so the student was in the clear.

Then I read the update where the OP stated that she did say to call back to confirm which time; in this case the student was in the wrong.

THEN I go back and read the OP again and realize she called the day before (not sure what time the OP called) so there could have been a lot of reason the student wasn't able to get the message until 9:30 p.m.  Also, that the student, even though she called late, figured that she would take her chance and show up because she was assuming that if the woman had those times available that the woman would be IN the office no matter what and be available.

and FINALLY - since this was all in a rush (student filled paperwork on Monday - classes start next week) that the student should have been very conscience of looking for a phone call or email from the school.

wolfie

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boy this is really a hard one..

when I read the OP I too thought that the only instruction was to call back if the times were NOT convenient for the student; so the student was in the clear.

Then I read the update where the OP stated that she did say to call back to confirm which time; in this case the student was in the wrong.

THEN I go back and read the OP again and realize she called the day before (not sure what time the OP called) so there could have been a lot of reason the student wasn't able to get the message until 9:30 p.m.  Also, that the student, even though she called late, figured that she would take her chance and show up because she was assuming that if the woman had those times available that the woman would be IN the office no matter what and be available.

and FINALLY - since this was all in a rush (student filled paperwork on Monday - classes start next week) that the student should have been very conscience of looking for a phone call or email from the school.

Just because you are expecting a phone call or email doesn't mean you have access to it. I don't have a dataplan on my cell phone so can't get emails on it. And some places don't let you keep your cell phone on you at work. I wouldn't be so quick to say she had to have known and just choose to call at 9:30. It makes much more sense that she got the message around 9:00 and called as soon as she could.

staceym

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boy this is really a hard one..

when I read the OP I too thought that the only instruction was to call back if the times were NOT convenient for the student; so the student was in the clear.

Then I read the update where the OP stated that she did say to call back to confirm which time; in this case the student was in the wrong.

THEN I go back and read the OP again and realize she called the day before (not sure what time the OP called) so there could have been a lot of reason the student wasn't able to get the message until 9:30 p.m.  Also, that the student, even though she called late, figured that she would take her chance and show up because she was assuming that if the woman had those times available that the woman would be IN the office no matter what and be available.

and FINALLY - since this was all in a rush (student filled paperwork on Monday - classes start next week) that the student should have been very conscience of looking for a phone call or email from the school.

Just because you are expecting a phone call or email doesn't mean you have access to it. I don't have a dataplan on my cell phone so can't get emails on it. And some places don't let you keep your cell phone on you at work. I wouldn't be so quick to say she had to have known and just choose to call at 9:30. It makes much more sense that she got the message around 9:00 and called as soon as she could.

true - she might not have access to email on her phone.  But, I find it hard to believe that someone in a somewhat long timespan didn't check their phone and see a miss call or a voice mail.  Now, again, maybe I'm assuming the number the OP called was a cellphone and not a land line.  And, again, I'm assuming that in that same length of timespan there might have been a way for her to call the OP back.

lowspark

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I'm curious as to the student's attitude. Did you tell her that you weren't expecting her since you'd not as of yet received her message? If so, how did she reply?

luna_elvellon

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Yep, I can easily think of half a dozen good reasons the student didn't get the message soon enough, so I'd also be more interested in what her attitude actually was. I'm also unclear as to why Lisa would decide to come in late after you'd already told the student those times were available without you at least calling the student back letting her know those times were no longer open or something. That in itself might have prevented a lot of confusion. It sounds like the student most likely called back as soon as she could, which was unfortunately after you'd gone home for the day, and decided to play it safe and assume the appointment was on (probably figuring that was better than risk missing an appointment for a big interview). If she started acting huffy or entitled or something, then yeah, that would have made her pretty rude.

Surianne

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true - she might not have access to email on her phone.  But, I find it hard to believe that someone in a somewhat long timespan didn't check their phone and see a miss call or a voice mail.  Now, again, maybe I'm assuming the number the OP called was a cellphone and not a land line.  And, again, I'm assuming that in that same length of timespan there might have been a way for her to call the OP back.

Not everyone owns a cell phone -- I don't, and I definitely couldn't afford one when I was a grad student.  I don't see any reason to assume the student was negligent here and deliberately avoiding checking messages or missed calls.  Likely she just didn't have a chance to check her messages until 9pm, for whatever reason -- class, work, lack of a cell phone, out of service area, whatever.

Aquamarine

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I wouldn't have called Lisa in. I would have told the student that I hadn't received her message as of 4:30 the previous evening, therefore she didn't actually have an appointment. I would then offer to make an appointment for her, at a time convenient for both the student and Lisa.

POD.  Someone needed to put on their listening ears, listen to messages and grow up. 
OP: 
What this person asked is ridiculous and a good example of fallout from the cell phone generation where so many *have* to be available 24/7.  I'm sure to many it comes as a shock that some professionals want to keep work to set hours and outside those hours they are off with no contact with the workplace (unless on call).  I would not have called anyone for this person, she needed to make an appointment, to do otherwise is to feed the entitlement monster.  I have a sense that perhaps she even thought it was the OP's "fault" no appointment was made because the OP didn't keep up with her phone calls.  There are a lot of people who just don't understand that just because you can be available 24/7 there are still people who don't want to be. 
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tinkytinky

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Was student rude? maybe. I am leaning a little more to clueless though. I personally wouldn't show up somewhere unless I had a firm appointment.

I would have probably left the appointment times out of a voicemail. "I need to set up an appointment for you with Lisa. She has a couple of open spots tomorrow. Please call me at ext XXX, I will be in my office until 4:30 and will be available after 8:30 am tomorrow. I look forward to your call."

If she showed up and Lisa wasn't there, I would have just told her that she was booked for the morning and would be available at X time (next day, lunch time, etc.).

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Goosey

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I wouldn't have called Lisa in. I would have told the student that I hadn't received her message as of 4:30 the previous evening, therefore she didn't actually have an appointment. I would then offer to make an appointment for her, at a time convenient for both the student and Lisa.

POD.  Someone needed to put on their listening ears, listen to messages and grow up. 
OP: 
What this person asked is ridiculous and a good example of fallout from the cell phone generation where so many *have* to be available 24/7.  I'm sure to many it comes as a shock that some professionals want to keep work to set hours and outside those hours they are off with no contact with the workplace (unless on call).  I would not have called anyone for this person, she needed to make an appointment, to do otherwise is to feed the entitlement monster.  I have a sense that perhaps she even thought it was the OP's "fault" no appointment was made because the OP didn't keep up with her phone calls.  There are a lot of people who just don't understand that just because you can be available 24/7 there are still people who don't want to be.

This is kind of funny because aren't you assuming that the student was available 24/7, that she was neglectful in responding because she should have had her cell phone on her/email access and responded within working hours dictated by the OP with little notice? But this 24/7 availability (which aparantly does not really exist since she was unable to respond) is what is corrupting her at the same time? So, she's to be available 24/7, but deities forbid she leave a message after hours!

Your first statement is rather insulting to those of us who have said that the message was unclear and we would have shown up as well. I consider myself "grown up" and consider showing up the more mature choice because it's preferable to being a no-show when I'm not sure if Lisa is still available.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2014, 11:26:57 AM by Goosey »

Aquamarine

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I wouldn't have called Lisa in. I would have told the student that I hadn't received her message as of 4:30 the previous evening, therefore she didn't actually have an appointment. I would then offer to make an appointment for her, at a time convenient for both the student and Lisa.

POD.  Someone needed to put on their listening ears, listen to messages and grow up. 
OP: 
What this person asked is ridiculous and a good example of fallout from the cell phone generation where so many *have* to be available 24/7.  I'm sure to many it comes as a shock that some professionals want to keep work to set hours and outside those hours they are off with no contact with the workplace (unless on call).  I would not have called anyone for this person, she needed to make an appointment, to do otherwise is to feed the entitlement monster.  I have a sense that perhaps she even thought it was the OP's "fault" no appointment was made because the OP didn't keep up with her phone calls.  There are a lot of people who just don't understand that just because you can be available 24/7 there are still people who don't want to be.

This is kind of funny because aren't you assuming that the student was available 24/7, that she was neglectful in responding because she should have had her cell phone on her/email access and responded within working hours dictated by the OP with little notice? But this 24/7 availability (which aparantly does not really exist since she was unable to respond) is what is corrupting her at the same time? So, she's to be available 24/7, but deities forbid she leave a message after hours!

Your first statement is rather insulting to those of us who have said that the message was unclear and we would have shown up as well. I consider myself "grown up" and consider showing up the more mature choice because it's preferable to being a no-show when I'm not sure if Lisa is still available.

It is on the student to be available using common sense.  She's the one that wants something so it falls to her to be available by whatever means necessary.  My common sense would tell me that a recorded message left at 9:30 at night to an office whose recorded message tells callers the office is closed would not be heard by anyone until the next morning.  I would know that I needed to call first thing in the morning to see what was going on.  If I decided to show up in person I would do so to make an appointment, not expecting that an appointment had actually been made due to my calling after hours.  If the person was in and could see that would be a bonus, but I would not expect it.
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Mental Magpie

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This is where the student, and many posters, are losing me.  When I am on the phone with a doctor's office, they may say, "I have 8:30 or 12:00 available."  I would then reply, "The 12:00 works best for me."  Usually, the receptionist would reply, "OK, I have you down for 12:00."  When OP said she had 8:30 or 9:00 available, why does that mean the appointment is made?  The OP never said, "We will see you at 8:30 or 9:00", so why would anyone assume the appointment is set?  I have never heard of someone offering two (or more) times meaning the appointment is made in any setting, whether it was a casual get together or a meeting with a teacher.  Where from is this assumption coming?  Genuine question because I truly don't understand why someone would make that assumption.
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wolfie

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This is where the student, and many posters, are losing me.  When I am on the phone with a doctor's office, they may say, "I have 8:30 or 12:00 available."  I would then reply, "The 12:00 works best for me."  Usually, the receptionist would reply, "OK, I have you down for 12:00."  When OP said she had 8:30 or 9:00 available, why does that mean the appointment is made?  The OP never said, "We will see you at 8:30 or 9:00", so why would anyone assume the appointment is set?  I have never heard of someone offering two (or more) times meaning the appointment is made in any setting, whether it was a casual get together or a meeting with a teacher.  Where from is this assumption coming?  Genuine question because I truly don't understand why someone would make that assumption.

Because the next sentence is "call me if neither time works for you" which implies that if you can make one of the two times given you don't need to call back. Not knowing how the office works and depending on when the OP called I would assume that the person is there and has two free slots and doesn't expect to fill both of them so showing up to either is fine. I would call back and confirm which slot I wanted, but if I got the message after hours I would leave a message and show up the next morning. I would be polite and understanding if I was told that I didn't have any appointment but I would also consider the message left to be confusing if what the OP really meant was "Call to confirm your appointment - if it isn't confirmed by 4:30 today then call between 8;30 and 4:30 tomorrow to set a new time"