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Author Topic: Is this forgivable or completely awful?  (Read 15806 times)

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TootsNYC

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Re: Is this forgivable or completely awful?
« Reply #30 on: April 30, 2015, 01:54:17 PM »
I don't think we should jump the gun and be too critical of this couple for asking the husband as a groomsman for the numbers. Some people think you're "supposed to" have even sides. I know that can sound silly but I often see questions here like that about what you're "supposed to" do as if there is some kind of "wedding police" (or whatever) who are going to fine you if you don't follow some arbitrary rule. It's not that out of the ordinary to blindly follow some perceived norm without actually thinking it through.

In addition, it could easily be the HC's intent to make the husband feel more welcome or more part of the inner circle. After all, his wife is going to be in the wedding and under normal circumstances, he would be sitting without her during the ceremony, and possibly during the reception as well.

Agree!  Very much so.


artk2002

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Re: Is this forgivable or completely awful?
« Reply #31 on: April 30, 2015, 02:24:20 PM »
$250 to rent a tux? That seems excessive to me. I've seen them starting at $60US. $180US would be very high in most places. I could buy a used tux in good condition for $250.
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goldilocks

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Re: Is this forgivable or completely awful?
« Reply #32 on: April 30, 2015, 02:51:33 PM »
$250 to rent a tux? That seems excessive to me. I've seen them starting at $60US. $180US would be very high in most places. I could buy a used tux in good condition for $250.

They picked out a very specific style of tux.   I doubt we could buy one to match.  I've seen them for $200 around here.

NFPwife

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Re: Is this forgivable or completely awful?
« Reply #33 on: May 01, 2015, 10:30:40 AM »

Her issues are pregnancy related.   Right now she feels fine and may be able to go back to work, but she is at 32 weeks now.   So yes, there is a possibility she won't be at the wedding either!   Fortunately most of her costs were paid quite some time  ago.     

Well, how is the bride dealing with that reality?  Has she made "hurt" noises about the chance that DD might be in labor or recovery, or just generally incapacitated?  And, let's look at the whole picture -- SIL may in fact miss both work and the wedding, if he needs to be there for DD.  How are the HC taking that?


EllenS has a good point, I think. The couple's reaction to her DD's situation will indicate what sort of people they are. And that should indicate what the best approach is.

Also, there are ways to soften the blow, by being extra helpful here or there in the lead-up. Maybe the son-in-law can offer to take care of something stressful for the couple, something he might not have ordinarily done. Maybe he can be the "return the tuxes on Monday" guy, or something, so that it becomes a reshuffling of assistance instead of completely dropping out.

That's really clever and could help preserve the relationship and show the HC that SIL isn't just "flaking."

gellchom

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Re: Is this forgivable or completely awful?
« Reply #34 on: May 05, 2015, 02:02:01 PM »
I think that this is an excellent example of something that has to be done with profuse apologies and asking for forgiveness -- not in a way that minimizes the HC's wedding and their feelings.

I agree that it is a very big deal to be asked to be an attendant, and a very big deal to accept that offer and back out.  (Whether you were included because of even numbers, because your wife is a cherished friend, or any other reason is irrelevant -- it's still an honor and a role in a major, serious event.)  So I agree that it isn't something to be done lightly.

However, I also agree that the HC's circumstances are compelling, and her husband has excellent reasons to bow out, and probably he should. 

But it's just as important to be extremely apologetic, not casual about it.  The temptation is to act like it's not a big deal, just a totally reasonable choice, because you don't want to be doing something that is a big faux pas or hurtful in a big way.  It seems like making it seem like a small, unimportant infraction would help.  But it backfires if you try that attitude, because the effect is to make it seem like their wedding and their feelings are what is unimportant. 

And I too would cut the couple some slack if their first reaction is not "Oh, no problem, of course you need to step out, we insist, bla bla bla."  It won't be, and not just because people are pretty stressed out by changes close to the wedding (especially if he accepted the honor long ago).  Remember, he is still stepping out because he'd rather pick up a few hours of work than attend their wedding and not have to spend money on a tux  and this after they included him just because he's your boyfriend.  That he may be in a position that he pretty much must make that choice doesn't change the etiquette of the situation: he is still backing out of a very important commitment on a very important day in their lives.  Even for a guest, it's a big deal to accept and then back out of a wedding invitation.

So make sure that you tell your friends as soon as possible and do not try to get them to agree with you that this is okay.  Let them be the gracious ones nicely giving him a pass on a big no-no, not people who are simply being reasonable (or big meanies if they do anything but insist he bow out).  Allow them to feel magnanimous for giving him a pass, not that they would be petty or selfish to care.  Don't make them have to say, in essence, that their wedding is not a big deal and that his being included wasn't important.

In other words, not

"Listen, DH found out that the tux costs $250 and he can pick up a shift the day of the wedding, and as you know money is really tight for us just now, so I'm sure you understand that he can't be in your wedding and in fact won't even attend.  I mean, it's not like it's really important to have even numbers.  You don't mind, do you?"

but

"Petunia, this is Goldilocks.  Listen, I have to ask for a very, very big thing.  As you know, money is very tight for us right now, because of things we didn't anticipate when you asked Dudley to be in the wedding.  And now it turns out that they've asked him to work that day, and we really need that extra shift.  It's killing us, because he was so touched and honored to be included, and you know how important you and Cuthbert and your wedding are to us.  But we just don't see any way around it.  I hate to bother you with our troubles when you are so busy, and I don't want to be a buzzkill at such a great time, but you are such a good friend, I thought I could take the chance and ask you and hope for your understanding.  I'm so sorry this is messing up your plans; I know you wanted even numbers.  Maybe I can help you figure out some other way to get the effect you want? 

After Petunia says yes, which may not be right away -- she may need to freak out a bit or be insulted -- thank her over and over for being so wonderful about it because you know it's a big thing and you couldn't ask just anyone to be so understanding.  Whatever you do, do not try to get her to say it's not important, even though that might make you feel better.

And I, too, wonder about that $250 rental.  You can buy a decent tuxedo for that, I would think.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2015, 04:04:48 PM by gellchom »

LtPowers

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Re: Is this forgivable or completely awful?
« Reply #35 on: May 05, 2015, 03:51:28 PM »
And I, too, wonder about that $250 rental.  You can buy a decent tuxedo for that, I would think.

You can buy a passable business suit (or a good used one) for that price. Don't know about a tux. I'd be surprised if you could get one new for that price.


Powers  &8^]

Harriet Jones

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Re: Is this forgivable or completely awful?
« Reply #36 on: May 05, 2015, 04:46:51 PM »
And I, too, wonder about that $250 rental.  You can buy a decent tuxedo for that, I would think.

You can buy a passable business suit (or a good used one) for that price. Don't know about a tux. I'd be surprised if you could get one new for that price.
 

A quick look at the Men's Wearhouse website has several tuxedos for purchase for under $250.


gramma dishes

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Re: Is this forgivable or completely awful?
« Reply #37 on: May 05, 2015, 07:46:34 PM »
And I, too, wonder about that $250 rental.  You can buy a decent tuxedo for that, I would think.

You can buy a passable business suit (or a good used one) for that price. Don't know about a tux. I'd be surprised if you could get one new for that price.


Powers  &8^]

Around here you can buy a very decent business suit for that price.  Tuxedos are usually not made quite as well ( or made well but of less durable fabrics ) because it is not anticipated that they'll see as much use as a business suit and for that reason they are often a little less expensive. 

Tux rental places will often sell "out of season" pre-worn tuxes for astonishingly little!

MariaE

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Re: Is this forgivable or completely awful?
« Reply #38 on: May 06, 2015, 01:36:16 AM »
And I, too, wonder about that $250 rental.  You can buy a decent tuxedo for that, I would think.

You can buy a passable business suit (or a good used one) for that price. Don't know about a tux. I'd be surprised if you could get one new for that price.


Powers  &8^]

Around here you can buy a very decent business suit for that price.  Tuxedos are usually not made quite as well ( or made well but of less durable fabrics ) because it is not anticipated that they'll see as much use as a business suit and for that reason they are often a little less expensive. 

Tux rental places will often sell "out of season" pre-worn tuxes for astonishingly little!

According to the OP, they've been asked to rent a very specific tux, so that probably explains the price. Her boyfriend can't go out and get just any tux.
 
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Harriet Jones

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Re: Is this forgivable or completely awful?
« Reply #39 on: May 06, 2015, 06:53:48 AM »
At our wedding, the groomsmen rented a specific style of tux as well, but the rental fee wasn't nearly as high.  I wonder what makes the tux in the OP so special?

gellchom

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Re: Is this forgivable or completely awful?
« Reply #40 on: May 06, 2015, 11:42:19 AM »
Maybe he needs to rent shirt, studs, shoes, cuff links, suspenders, and cummerbund, too?

Harriet Jones

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Re: Is this forgivable or completely awful?
« Reply #41 on: May 06, 2015, 11:44:29 AM »
Maybe he needs to rent shirt, studs, shoes, cuff links, suspenders, and cummerbund, too?

Isn't that usually included in the rental fee? Any tux a boyfriend (or my husband) ever rented, all that stuff was included.

TootsNYC

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Re: Is this forgivable or completely awful?
« Reply #42 on: May 06, 2015, 11:54:26 AM »
And I, too, wonder about that $250 rental.  You can buy a decent tuxedo for that, I would think.

You can buy a passable business suit (or a good used one) for that price. Don't know about a tux. I'd be surprised if you could get one new for that price.


Powers  &8^]

Around here you can buy a very decent business suit for that price.  Tuxedos are usually not made quite as well ( or made well but of less durable fabrics ) because it is not anticipated that they'll see as much use as a business suit and for that reason they are often a little less expensive. 

Tux rental places will often sell "out of season" pre-worn tuxes for astonishingly little!

According to the OP, they've been asked to rent a very specific tux, so that probably explains the price. Her boyfriend can't go out and get just any tux.

Yes, which explains why it's so high, and also that it's a bit of an imposition.

No one's arguing that our OP got the price wrong; we're just saying, "Wow, that's a heck of a lot to just *rent* a tux!"
 

Lynn2000

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Re: Is this forgivable or completely awful?
« Reply #43 on: May 06, 2015, 11:55:08 AM »
Not to go too off-topic, but if it was a really special tux, like in a special color, or each groomsman is in a different color and supposed to stand in a certain order and match with a certain bridesmaid, that could play into the HC's desire to have this guy more for "the look," and into how upset they would be to have that look changed. Someone I know had a rainbow-themed wedding--seven bridesmaids, one in a red dress, one in orange, etc., and seven groomsmen who each wore a different-colored vest. They had to stand in rainbow order for the photos and the red bridesmaid was matched with the red groomsman, etc.. I will admit that in the photos, it looked incredibly awesome and fun, but I do wonder how difficult it was to coordinate behind the scenes--just the certainty that fourteen people will all be able to make it to your wedding, for one thing.

I mean, one hopes that if the Green Groomsman had to drop out due to his household's health/financial situation, Rainbow HC would have been gracious about it, and been able to find a new body to be Mr. Green or simply done without. But the latter option would have been really hard to swallow, I think, in a situation where you've invested so much time and energy and emotion into the planning. Maybe people would say you shouldn't invest that much into the look, but that's a slippery slope, you know? At any rate I think the guy who's going to drop out, needs to let the couple know ASAP, so they have a shot at replacing him if necessary. Worse than "he dropped out on us" would be, "he dropped out on us at the last minute and completely ruined the look we'd been working on for months."
~Lynn2000

gellchom

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Re: Is this forgivable or completely awful?
« Reply #44 on: May 06, 2015, 12:17:50 PM »
That's a very good point, Lynn2000.

What it comes down to in the end is that he wants to back out of a commitment to have a place of honor in a very important event not because of an emergency but because something else came up that he'd rather do.  It's absolutely true that the circumstances are very compelling and the "something" that came up is not frivolous, it's something that would be very helpful to him and the OP at a difficult time, not a competing social event or something.  But from the position of the bride and groom, it still boils down to bailing at the last minute -- very forgivable, of course, because of the circumstances, but it leaves them in the same spot no matter why.  That's true even when the reason is a true emergency.

That's why my advice was not that he shouldn't step down, but that he should do so in as considerate and apologetic manner as he possibly can, keeping the focus on what it means to them, not why it was excusable for him to ask, and acknowledging that it is a big deal and that they are being very kind and understanding to forgive him. 

This is the polite thing to do even if you must miss a wedding or other important event because of illness or emergency; of course you had to miss it, but you still apologize to the hosts as soon as you can for the inconvenience and tell them you regret missing the occasion, even if the reason was something like emergency surgery or your own parent's funeral.  (And of course the hosts or HC for their part will tell you something like, "Oh, please, don't apologize, we just hope you're well!" or whatever.)  It's not a question of which is more important -- it's not a contest.  You are just making sure to acknowledge the importance of the event you missed, the same as you would have done had you been there, even though of course you did nothing wrong by missing it.

So in a case like this, where it isn't completely impossible for the OP's husband to do it, and he's an attendant, to boot, I think it's even more important to get this right.