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Author Topic: Family argument - military dress in the wedding UPDATE #136  (Read 43743 times)

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TurtleDove

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Re: Family argument - military dress in the wedding
« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2015, 10:17:03 AM »
Edited to add:  A dress uniform may be as formal as a tux, but that isn't the issue. A grey tux and a black tux are both formal, but it doesn't meant it would be okay to wear either color. Brides often want everyone to match. He wouldn't match. I highly doubt she means it as an insult to him or the military. She just wants him to match.

Yep, I think the bride is okay to want him to match.  That said, I don't think wanting to wear military dress blues is akin to wanting to wear one's own tuxedo.  I doubt the brother is trying to save money or something by wearing something he already owns.  I think he is motivated to wear the dress blues because he earned the right to wear them, and for some people (like me) it is really important/moving to see our military proud and honored. 

camlan

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Re: Family argument - military dress in the wedding
« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2015, 10:33:01 AM »
Well, and this is purely hypothetical, what if the bride or her groom is a pacifist? And doesn't want a symbol of the military at the wedding? Would the brother still be encouraged to wear the uniform then?

I find it odd that the family is siding with the brother, over something that is happening on the bride's big day. I don't like bridezillas, but I don't think this is a bridezilla issue. The bride, or the groom, wants the groomsmen to match. I do not see why the brother's military service should trump that. If I were that bride, I'd be pretty angry at the whole family for pressuring me like that, over *my* wedding. My brother would have plenty of other places to wear his uniform; he can wear civilian dress for one day.

The fact that the brother keeps pushing and that the whole family is backing him up, makes me wonder if there isn't another issue here. Perhaps the bride feels that the family values her brother and his military service over her, and wants him to wear the uniform at the wedding because of that. I'd hate for my wedding day to be overshadowed by a sibling's military service. Insisting on wearing the uniform after being told no smacks of wanting to show off the uniform, IMO. Which is not a good reason to wear it. I don't think being in the service trumps being a decent brother, in matters not related to national security.

(And in passing, I've been to military weddings where the service people wore uniforms. The men in the wedding party who were civilians wore tuxs in the same color as the uniforms, so as to blend in a bit more. If the chosen tuxes and the uniform aren't the same color, the brother will stand out even more.
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peaches

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Re: Family argument - military dress in the wedding
« Reply #17 on: May 06, 2015, 10:39:20 AM »
Edited to add:  A dress uniform may be as formal as a tux, but that isn't the issue. A grey tux and a black tux are both formal, but it doesn't meant it would be okay to wear either color. Brides often want everyone to match. He wouldn't match. I highly doubt she means it as an insult to him or the military. She just wants him to match.

Yep, I think the bride is okay to want him to match.  That said, I don't think wanting to wear military dress blues is akin to wanting to wear one's own tuxedo.  I doubt the brother is trying to save money or something by wearing something he already owns.  I think he is motivated to wear the dress blues because he earned the right to wear them, and for some people (like me) it is really important/moving to see our military proud and honored.

For sure, our military should be proud and should be honored.

But I also think that for these few hours, this one day, it isn't about him (brother).

The fact that a dress uniform attracts attention can't be denied.


Outdoor Girl

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Re: Family argument - military dress in the wedding
« Reply #18 on: May 06, 2015, 10:41:32 AM »
Aren't the Navy dress uniforms white?  If brother is in the Navy, I can really see the bride's position; it would be really jarring to have a white uniform there among the dark tuxes, presuming they are dark.

If brother felt really strongly about wearing his dress uniform, I'd let him.  But I might rejig things so he was standing on my side with the bridesmaids, rather than with the groomsmen, if that was possible.  Or rejig things so that he was an usher but not standing at the front with the rest of the groomsmen, if the matching was really important to me.  (Which it wouldn't be.  As long as the formality was similar, I'd be good with it.  If the rest of the party was wearing Hawaiian shirts and cargo shorts and my brother wanted to wear his dress uniform?  That would be a no.  ;D )
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Ontario

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Re: Family argument - military dress in the wedding
« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2015, 10:44:03 AM »
I find it disingenuous to argue that not wearing a military uniform is disrespectful (the inverse of what's being argued here, I realize).
The wedding party's uniform is tuxes (or whatever), not military garb.

If it were my wedding, I would refuse to have a person in the party who wanted to stand out or make a political statement by wearing a uniform against my wishes. Yes, even if it led to a falling-out.

lmyrs

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Re: Family argument - military dress in the wedding
« Reply #20 on: May 06, 2015, 10:47:07 AM »
Edited to add:  A dress uniform may be as formal as a tux, but that isn't the issue. A grey tux and a black tux are both formal, but it doesn't meant it would be okay to wear either color. Brides often want everyone to match. He wouldn't match. I highly doubt she means it as an insult to him or the military. She just wants him to match.

Yep, I think the bride is okay to want him to match.  That said, I don't think wanting to wear military dress blues is akin to wanting to wear one's own tuxedo.  I doubt the brother is trying to save money or something by wearing something he already owns.  I think he is motivated to wear the dress blues because he earned the right to wear them, and for some people (like me) it is really important/moving to see our military proud and honored.

I agree that it is very important that the military be honoured. But, his sister's wedding is not the place for him to be honoured. He's acting dishonourably by insisting on this. Toots makes some amazing points.


TootsNYC

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Re: Family argument - military dress in the wedding
« Reply #21 on: May 06, 2015, 10:50:24 AM »
Edited to add:  A dress uniform may be as formal as a tux, but that isn't the issue. A grey tux and a black tux are both formal, but it doesn't meant it would be okay to wear either color. Brides often want everyone to match. He wouldn't match. I highly doubt she means it as an insult to him or the military. She just wants him to match.

Yep, I think the bride is okay to want him to match.  That said, I don't think wanting to wear military dress blues is akin to wanting to wear one's own tuxedo.  I doubt the brother is trying to save money or something by wearing something he already owns.  I think he is motivated to wear the dress blues because he earned the right to wear them, and for some people (like me) it is really important/moving to see our military proud and honored.

For sure, our military should be proud and should be honored.

But I also think that for these few hours, this one day, it isn't about him (brother).

The fact that a dress uniform attracts attention can't be denied.

This was my Chief Warrant Officer brother's position.

He thinks it's attention-grabby to insist on this. And we have a civilian military. When they're not on duty, they're not any different from the rest of us, is his position. This guy's not on duty, so he should act exactly the same as everyone else.

It really *is* analgous to him "already owning a tuxedo and wanting to wear that." That's all his dress uniform is: formalwear he already owns.


He's not supposed to be seeking accolades and attention for his military service. That's absolute the opposite of what "military bearing" is.
There are times at which it is proper to honor the servicemen and servicewomen among us for what they do for us. Someone else's wedding is not it.

mime

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Re: Family argument - military dress in the wedding
« Reply #22 on: May 06, 2015, 10:53:36 AM »
If I were the bride I'd let him wear the dress uniform. But I was a very laid back bride, and also feel very strongly about soldiers; he earned the right to wear the Blues.

Yeah, it's hard for me to imagine being the bride and *not* wanting my brother to wear the uniform. I also feel strongly about soldiers and strongly about my brother.

I guess it comes down to individual preferences and what's most important to the bride and her brother. Not really a right or wrong in the final decision.

The rest of the family needs to back off though and let this be an issue for the two of them to resolve.

Goosey

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Re: Family argument - military dress in the wedding
« Reply #23 on: May 06, 2015, 11:20:43 AM »
The brother should never have asked. There was no reason to ask except that he was looking for attention. That's not appropriate for a groomsman. If he were guest, I'd feel differently. But, he agreed to be groomsman and that entails a tux and dressing like the other groomsman. It doesn't really matter what you (general) as a bride would do - it matters what this bride and groom have already decided. It was the right decision for them and the brother is not being a good representative of his branch by acting like him getting attention is more important than the roll he has to play. This is not about honoring the military - it's about appropriate and inappropriate uses of military garb.
 
He is not representing the US military that day, he is representing the groom. He needs to be in the right uniform.

ETA: I married into the military and I'm proud of my husband and he is proud of his career. We both grew up and lived in areas with a strong military presence. I have never seen a member of the military wear their uniform to an event where there is a guest of honor without that guest of honor's express wish and request. Basically - it's bad form to wear your uniform and take attention away from those who should be the focus of an event. This is no different than a guest wearing a formal white dress to a wedding or someone purposefully wearing the same dress as the wedding party when they are not a part of it. There is a time and a place to make it About You. Someone else's wedding is not it.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2015, 11:27:50 AM by Goosey »

turnip

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Re: Family argument - military dress in the wedding
« Reply #24 on: May 06, 2015, 11:36:07 AM »
I find it disingenuous to argue that not wearing a military uniform is disrespectful (the inverse of what's being argued here, I realize).
The wedding party's uniform is tuxes (or whatever), not military garb.

If it were my wedding, I would refuse to have a person in the party who wanted to stand out or make a political statement by wearing a uniform against my wishes. Yes, even if it led to a falling-out.

I agree with this.  I think the brother and his family are making themselves ridiculous by turning this into a 'disrespect' issue when its not.    Matching outfits - whatever we may think of them - are a traditional part of the duties of the wedding party.   I'd tell my brother that he's more than welcome to wear his military garb and sit with the other guests.

TootsNYC

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Re: Family argument - military dress in the wedding
« Reply #25 on: May 06, 2015, 11:46:36 AM »
Maybe the way to get through to the brother is to point out that his "unit," the groomsmen, will be wearing a uniform dictated by their "commanding officer," the bride (and groom).

And for him to want to wear something else just because the regs say he *can* is insubordinate.

I'm trying to think of a military equivalent.
Like, the group is traveling, and the commander says, "plain clothes until we get there," and he wants to wear his BDUs, and he's the only one who's got them on.

Or, everybody's in BDUs, and he wants to wear service dress. Or they're all in coveralls, and he wants to wear the working uniform.

Goosey

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Re: Family argument - military dress in the wedding
« Reply #26 on: May 06, 2015, 11:49:14 AM »
I think that would be really condescending.

He knows why his sister wants him not to wear it.

It would be better for her to say, "I'm sorry you feel that way. Maybe it's better that you step down as a groomsman since you won't fulfill the obligations."

Oh Joy

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Re: Family argument - military dress in the wedding
« Reply #27 on: May 06, 2015, 12:06:09 PM »
Unless it's part of the HC's culture (as opposed to their families') or it comes at the HC's request, the military dress does not belong in the ceremony any more than any other formal dress already in the groomsman's closet.

That said, I know proud parents and grandparents often cherish the rare occasion to see their children in formal military dress, and this is a family event.  Would it make sense to have him in the tuxedo uniform for the ceremony and pictures, then change to his military uniform for the reception?

Outdoor Girl

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Re: Family argument - military dress in the wedding
« Reply #28 on: May 06, 2015, 12:12:59 PM »
That said, I know proud parents and grandparents often cherish the rare occasion to see their children in formal military dress, and this is a family event.  Would it make sense to have him in the tuxedo uniform for the ceremony and pictures, then change to his military uniform for the reception?
That sounds like a great compromise, actually.
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staceym

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Re: Family argument - military dress in the wedding
« Reply #29 on: May 06, 2015, 12:44:45 PM »
well  I'm going to side with brother on this one..unless the OP clarifies more

my thinking:

I don't think he was an SS to ask for wanting it all to be about him - maybe he said - oh a formal occasion; I'm can wear my dress uniform; I'll ask sis if it's okay.

I didn't see the OP mention that it was the brother who was badgering her to wear it; she said her family.

Maybe she told him no and he took no as the answer???