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Author Topic: Family argument - military dress in the wedding UPDATE #136  (Read 43420 times)

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goldilocks

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Re: Family argument - military dress in the wedding
« Reply #60 on: May 07, 2015, 12:24:05 PM »
Well, I brought it up because most of the family is not fond of bride due to her own behavior.    Her brother, on the other hand, is one of those who is perfectly charming on the surface, but has more deep-seated flaws that are not readily apparent.


TootsNYC

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Re: Family argument - military dress in the wedding
« Reply #61 on: May 07, 2015, 01:03:28 PM »
Well, I brought it up because most of the family is not fond of bride due to her own behavior.    Her brother, on the other hand, is one of those who is perfectly charming on the surface, but has more deep-seated flaws that are not readily apparent.

So you're thinking that the bride's past behavior is greatly coloring the rest of the family's reaction. That if they didn't all consider her spoiled, that they might side with her, or at least be less vehement, or perhaps even less automatic, about condemning her.

It's sort of funny--you say she's spoiled, but then you also say that grandmother totally favors the brother. So, maybe part of her "spoiled" is an attempt to get other people to prove to her that they care about her.
  Sounds like a sort of unfortunate dynamic all the way around.

goldilocks

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Re: Family argument - military dress in the wedding
« Reply #62 on: May 07, 2015, 04:09:12 PM »
It is , and it just getting worse.   I spoke to bride at length today and she is quite upset over the whole thing.   I think she and I formed a compromise that might make everyone happy, but who knows with this family?  I'm going to do my best to make sure there is no drama at the wedding and she has a good day. 

PastryGoddess

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Re: Family argument - military dress in the wedding
« Reply #63 on: May 07, 2015, 07:05:58 PM »
It is , and it just getting worse.   I spoke to bride at length today and she is quite upset over the whole thing.   I think she and I formed a compromise that might make everyone happy, but who knows with this family?  I'm going to do my best to make sure there is no drama at the wedding and she has a good day. 

It's not possible to make every single person happy.  She shouldn't be setting her wishes aside in order to cater to everyone else.

sammycat

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Re: Family argument - military dress in the wedding
« Reply #64 on: May 07, 2015, 11:46:14 PM »
I'm firmly on the bride's side here. It would actually be my hill to die on. Brother (and grandma) is/are trying to make bride's day all about him.  Being in the military doesn't give him a pass to wear his work clothes in a wedding party. I always prefer conformity in wedding parties and having someone stand out in such a manner is very "look at me!".  Not cool at all. 

If grandma continued on with her dreadful behaviour I'd give serious consideration to not inviting her at all.

OP updated as I was typing. I'm not impressed with this 'compromise'. Why is it so important to him that he be seen in his military uniform, and at his sister's wedding of all things? He sounds very insecure.

If brother is going to change out of the official wedding attire at the reception, the rest of the bridal party may as well too - shorts, casual clothes, work clothes, different dress, whatever. I know that sounds ridiculous, but that is how the brother and grandmother are acting.

peaches

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Re: Family argument - military dress in the wedding
« Reply #65 on: May 07, 2015, 11:54:56 PM »
I'm not impressed with this 'compromise'. Why is it so important to him that he be seen in his military uniform, and at his sister's wedding of all things? He sounds very insecure.

If brother is going to change out of the official wedding attire at the reception, the rest of the bridal party may as well too - shorts, casual clothes, work clothes, different dress, whatever. I know that sounds ridiculous, but that is how the brother and grandmother are acting.

Sometimes guests do change their attire before they show up for the reception. I've even seen brides change into a different dress. I think this is similar. It's not as though the brother is going to put on a Hawaiian shirt and shorts. He will be wearing dressy attire, just of a military nature. Plus, he has his sister's permission to make this change.

There's another reason why it appeals to me. I'm a history buff. If I see someone in military dress in family pictures, which I sometimes do, I always want to know, "Where were they serving? How long were they in the military?" and so on. It might be interesting to future generations to know this about a family member.

I do believe the brother should have asked first and followed his sister's wishes. And grandma should have stayed out of it. But, if this is the solution this family has come up with, I'm happy for them. Maybe now they can all go ahead and enjoy the wedding!

CakeEater

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Re: Family argument - military dress in the wedding
« Reply #66 on: May 08, 2015, 12:12:58 AM »
I'm not impressed with this 'compromise'. Why is it so important to him that he be seen in his military uniform, and at his sister's wedding of all things? He sounds very insecure.

If brother is going to change out of the official wedding attire at the reception, the rest of the bridal party may as well too - shorts, casual clothes, work clothes, different dress, whatever. I know that sounds ridiculous, but that is how the brother and grandmother are acting.


There's another reason why it appeals to me. I'm a history buff. If I see someone in military dress in family pictures, which I sometimes do, I always want to know, "Where were they serving? How long were they in the military?" and so on. It might be interesting to future generations to know this about a family member.



None of those questions will be answered by the uniform in a wedding photo, though. And it sounds like there'll be plenty of other photos of brother in his uniform. Future history buffs don't need to be prompted to ask those questions by his sister's wedding photo.

And why might future history buffs not be just as interested by the groom's profession? or the maid of honour's profession? or the best man's profession? He might be the man who cured cancer - doesn't mean he needs to wear his work clothes while in a wedding party.

Margo

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Re: Family argument - military dress in the wedding
« Reply #67 on: May 08, 2015, 04:20:24 AM »
Naval officer here. He was okay to ask; she was okay to say no. Grandma is behaving very poorly.

This is not his day; the honorable choice is to do as the bride and groom prefer. I would think especially poorly of him if he chose to wear service dress knowing Grandma would make a fuss. That crosses the line into attention seeking. Dressing in a civilian tux for one day at a civilian event does not dishonor his military service, and if I heard one of my sailors suggesting that it did, we'd be having a chat.

I agree. He and Grandma are both behaving very poorly, and very disrespectfully towards a bride and groom who have made a perfectly reasonable choice about how they want their wedding to be.
There is nothing remotely disrespectful to the military, or to brother , or political, in the dress code they want.

I hope that the B&G stand up for what they want. I also think Toot's brother made excellent points - OP, perhaps you could pass that on to the bride?



camlan

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Re: Family argument - military dress in the wedding
« Reply #68 on: May 08, 2015, 06:31:36 AM »
About the pictures--it might have mattered 75 years ago, when people just didn't take that many pictures. But now? With cameras everywhere? And better record-keeping systems? That one picture at his sister's wedding is not going to be the only clue that he served in the military.

I do get the point--you can learn a lot from old photographs. But if his military service is important to him, there are other ways of making sure future generations know about it than wearing the uniform on this one day that really is more about his sister than him.
Nothing is impossible, the word itself says, “I’m possible!” –Audrey Hepburn


Mary Lennox

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Re: Family argument - military dress in the wedding
« Reply #69 on: May 08, 2015, 08:30:38 AM »
I may have missed it, but are we sure how the brother really feels about this? Does he really care either way or is he going along with it because Grandma is being controlling and he wants to just shut her up by giving in?

goldilocks

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Re: Family argument - military dress in the wedding
« Reply #70 on: May 08, 2015, 02:13:12 PM »
Brother started all this by calling every member of the family and whining.    So Bride has brother, her father and her grandmother on her case.   In addition, my DH is upset as well but as far as I know hasn't called her. 

I really don't understand myself.   DH and I have argued the past 3 days over this, with neither of us being able to see the other side.   They feel that military personnel are "special" and should be treated as such.

I'm a military brat myself but I don't necessarily feel that way.  But for some reason they think bride should be "honored" to have military at her wedding, and any other opinion is bordering on treason.

I've pretty much given up.    I'll update after the wedding.

turnip

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Re: Family argument - military dress in the wedding
« Reply #71 on: May 08, 2015, 03:23:33 PM »
I wonder if they'd see it differently if it was the bride's sister who wanted to wear her military garb.  Military dress next to tuxes is reasonably harmonious - but military dress next to diaphanous pastel dresses would be quite a bit more jarring.

Just something you might want to offer as a though experiment to your DH.

mime

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Re: Family argument - military dress in the wedding
« Reply #72 on: May 08, 2015, 04:38:43 PM »
OK, after that last update, my oinion has changed. I thought the brother was OK to ask (and still think asking was OK). But calling in reinforcements to strong-arm his sister? Really not nice.

I had considered the compromise to be a case of both sister and brother making room for each other to have what they want. Now I think they're all spoiled brats.


DavidH

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Re: Family argument - military dress in the wedding
« Reply #73 on: May 08, 2015, 07:17:28 PM »
I think brother should have privately asked the bride and kept the discussion between the two of them.  Bride may be spoiled and brother may have deep-seated flaws that are not readily apparent, but this is one of those times that as an adult, you need to work things out in private.  I think the compromise they have gotten to is fine, if they are both okay with it.  Grandmother's behavior is hers to own.  If she chooses to make her granddaughter's wedding about her grandson, I don't think it's anyone else's fault.

Just because brother asked all and sundry to weigh in, doesn't mean they have to.  Father, grandmother, and anyone else should keep their mouths shut and refuse to get in the middle.  I can't imagine making someone's choice of clothes at a wedding a major family drama. 

Given the formality of the occasion, it occurs to me that a mess uniform rather than a dress uniform might be more appropriate.  I'm given to understand that most military personnel don't own one, so were the bride to insist that if he wears a uniform, he should wear the mess uniform, it might put an end to the discussion.

TootsNYC

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Re: Family argument - military dress in the wedding
« Reply #74 on: May 08, 2015, 08:33:16 PM »
Yep--the "mess" is the equivalent to the tuxedo.

Here's a visual!

http://www.marlowwhite.com/09k-495


From the Navy's website:

For the "service dress" uniform, "civilian equivalent is coat and tie."
http://www.public.navy.mil/bupers-npc/support/uniforms/uniformregulations/chapter3/MaleOfficer/MO_ServiceDress/Pages/ServiceDressWhite.aspx

Dinner Dress says:
"Worn to official functions when Civilians normally wear Black Tie."
So, not to civilian functions as black tie?
http://www.public.navy.mil/bupers-npc/support/uniforms/uniformregulations/chapter3/MaleOfficer/MO_DinnerDress/Pages/DinnerDressBlue.aspx





And honestly, from the Navy's own website, footnotes to the uniforms all say:
Quote
Must be uniform throughout the command.

So, he won't be "uniform throughout the command."