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Author Topic: Family argument - military dress in the wedding UPDATE #136  (Read 43444 times)

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MommyPenguin

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Re: Family argument - military dress in the wedding
« Reply #75 on: May 08, 2015, 09:09:04 PM »
Yep--the "mess" is the equivalent to the tuxedo.

Here's a visual!

http://www.marlowwhite.com/09k-495


From the Navy's website:

For the "service dress" uniform, "civilian equivalent is coat and tie."
http://www.public.navy.mil/bupers-npc/support/uniforms/uniformregulations/chapter3/MaleOfficer/MO_ServiceDress/Pages/ServiceDressWhite.aspx

Dinner Dress says:
"Worn to official functions when Civilians normally wear Black Tie."
So, not to civilian functions as black tie?
http://www.public.navy.mil/bupers-npc/support/uniforms/uniformregulations/chapter3/MaleOfficer/MO_DinnerDress/Pages/DinnerDressBlue.aspx





And honestly, from the Navy's own website, footnotes to the uniforms all say:
Quote
Must be uniform throughout the command.

So, he won't be "uniform throughout the command."

I would think that he could probably get away with either, because as a groomsmen he'd be entitled to wear a tuxedo, assuming the others were (thus making mess dress appropriate), but other guests would probably wear suits and ties (thus making service dress appropriate).  My husband has mess dress but has pretty much only worn it to formal dining outs and events like that.  He wasn't in the military when we married, so it didn't come up for the wedding.  In general, as a wedding guest, he's worn service dress.
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Winterlight

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Re: Family argument - military dress in the wedding
« Reply #76 on: May 19, 2015, 03:11:54 PM »
Brother started all this by calling every member of the family and whining.    So Bride has brother, her father and her grandmother on her case.   In addition, my DH is upset as well but as far as I know hasn't called her. 

I really don't understand myself.   DH and I have argued the past 3 days over this, with neither of us being able to see the other side.   They feel that military personnel are "special" and should be treated as such.

I'm a military brat myself but I don't necessarily feel that way.  But for some reason they think bride should be "honored" to have military at her wedding, and any other opinion is bordering on treason.

I've pretty much given up.    I'll update after the wedding.

Given this, I think Bro is a big old jerk and attention hound. My sympathies are with Bride.
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Sharnita

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Re: Family argument - military dress in the wedding
« Reply #77 on: May 19, 2015, 06:22:03 PM »
I think the fact that the bride has established herself as spoiled is significant because this has a lot to do with personal interactions. If the bride has habitually treated her brother and others disrespectfully then they are probably going to be disinclined to put her wishes above their own.

TurtleDove

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Re: Family argument - military dress in the wedding
« Reply #78 on: May 19, 2015, 09:31:23 PM »
I think the fact that the bride has established herself as spoiled is significant because this has a lot to do with personal interactions. If the bride has habitually treated her brother and others disrespectfully then they are probably going to be disinclined to put her wishes above their own.

Very well said. I think this is less an etiquette question and more an interpersonal situation that is not about etiquette.

PastryGoddess

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Re: Family argument - military dress in the wedding
« Reply #79 on: May 20, 2015, 01:27:21 AM »
I think the fact that the bride has established herself as spoiled is significant because this has a lot to do with personal interactions. If the bride has habitually treated her brother and others disrespectfully then they are probably going to be disinclined to put her wishes above their own.

Very well said. I think this is less an etiquette question and more an interpersonal situation that is not about etiquette.

I disagree.  The wedding is about the bride and groom. Whether or not the bride is spoiled really doesn't matter.  For the brother to resort to calling family members in order to get his way is super snowflakey. 

And if they are disinclined to put her wishes above their own, then maybe they shouldn't attend the wedding. 

Ceallach

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Re: Family argument - military dress in the wedding
« Reply #80 on: May 20, 2015, 02:58:28 AM »
I think the fact that the bride has established herself as spoiled is significant because this has a lot to do with personal interactions. If the bride has habitually treated her brother and others disrespectfully then they are probably going to be disinclined to put her wishes above their own.

Very well said. I think this is less an etiquette question and more an interpersonal situation that is not about etiquette.

Yes, it does seem almost as though this is how they're teaching her a lesson for past SSy behaviour even though in this case her request is quite reasonable.   It's her wedding, and having the bridal party dressed alike is a very common and reasonable request.   If brother doesn't want to dress as a groomsman he is free to come as a guest and dress in his appropriately formal military attire.    Her wishes are more important than his because it's not his wedding.   It's a shame they are digging their heels in over something like this.   It's not a particularly unreasonable bride request regardless of whether she's a lovely person or a horrible person, it's still her wedding and she and her future husband get to pick the bridal party and the bridal party attire.
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Goosey

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Re: Family argument - military dress in the wedding
« Reply #81 on: May 20, 2015, 06:58:28 AM »
I think the fact that the bride has established herself as spoiled is significant because this has a lot to do with personal interactions. If the bride has habitually treated her brother and others disrespectfully then they are probably going to be disinclined to put her wishes above their own.

Very well said. I think this is less an etiquette question and more an interpersonal situation that is not about etiquette.

I disagree.  The wedding is about the bride and groom. Whether or not the bride is spoiled really doesn't matter.  For the brother to resort to calling family members in order to get his way is super snowflakey. 

And if they are disinclined to put her wishes above their own, then maybe they shouldn't attend the wedding.

I'm right here with you. She may be a spoiled brat, but they are all acting like a bunch of entitled jerks.

If they have such a low opinion of her that they are willing to be so mean and disrespectful, they shouldn't be going to the wedding. If I were the bride, I'd tell them exactly that. Shame that it takes weddings and funerals to show you the difference between family and people who share some DNA with you.

TootsNYC

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Re: Family argument - military dress in the wedding
« Reply #82 on: May 20, 2015, 09:25:44 AM »
I think the fact that the bride has established herself as spoiled is significant because this has a lot to do with personal interactions. If the bride has habitually treated her brother and others disrespectfully then they are probably going to be disinclined to put her wishes above their own.

Very well said. I think this is less an etiquette question and more an interpersonal situation that is not about etiquette.

I think this is absolutely an etiquette question. Etiquette covers attire, and it covers weddings.

And I think that the person -acting- spoiled in this situation is the brother!

Maybe the family's having pigeon-holed or labeled the bride as "spoiled" means he thinks he gets to push her around, and it may mean that he knows he's got a ready bludgeon to use against her; he can just say "she's so spoiled," and that immediately frames the argument to her detriment. How handy for him!

But he's the one acting spoiled, in my opinion.

And this is etiquette. And he's failing.


(The OP's mention that the brother is favored by everyone else makes me wonder if some of that "spoiled" behavior is mostly the sister trying to get proof that indeed people in her family do value her after all.)

TurtleDove

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Re: Family argument - military dress in the wedding
« Reply #83 on: May 20, 2015, 09:36:31 AM »
I think the fact that the bride has established herself as spoiled is significant because this has a lot to do with personal interactions. If the bride has habitually treated her brother and others disrespectfully then they are probably going to be disinclined to put her wishes above their own.

Very well said. I think this is less an etiquette question and more an interpersonal situation that is not about etiquette.

I think this is absolutely an etiquette question. Etiquette covers attire, and it covers weddings.

And I think that the person -acting- spoiled in this situation is the brother!

Maybe the family's having pigeon-holed or labeled the bride as "spoiled" means he thinks he gets to push her around, and it may mean that he knows he's got a ready bludgeon to use against her; he can just say "she's so spoiled," and that immediately frames the argument to her detriment. How handy for him!

But he's the one acting spoiled, in my opinion.

And this is etiquette. And he's failing.


(The OP's mention that the brother is favored by everyone else makes me wonder if some of that "spoiled" behavior is mostly the sister trying to get proof that indeed people in her family do value her after all.)

I think we all agree that the brother and family are acting horribly.  I was saying that appealing to their sense of etiquette is not going to resolve anything because this is an interpersonal battle and not really a "is it appropriate for a person to wear military dress for a wedding" question.

ladyknight1

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Re: Family argument - military dress in the wedding
« Reply #84 on: May 20, 2015, 09:42:50 AM »
I wonder if bride has an all or nothing stance on this, as I don't see anyone as "winning" in this situation.
ďAll that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost; The old that is strong does not wither, Deep roots are not reached by the frost."
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TootsNYC

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Re: Family argument - military dress in the wedding
« Reply #85 on: May 20, 2015, 09:54:27 AM »

I think we all agree that the brother and family are acting horribly.  I was saying that appealing to their sense of etiquette is not going to resolve anything because this is an interpersonal battle and not really a "is it appropriate for a person to wear military dress for a wedding" question.

I actually think the brother and family *are* using "their sense of etiquette" in this battle; they just have a different rule than we do: the rule that the military is to be honored above all else.
Which is actually not appropriate for the USA, I believe. Our military serves the citizenry; that's crucial to our safety and our longevity.

So it is an etiquette battle, more than it is an interpersonal on. In my view. The interpersonal part ("Sis is a spoiled brat; Bro is better than her always, and especially now that he is In The Military") is just the backdrop.

gellchom

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Re: Family argument - military dress in the wedding
« Reply #86 on: May 20, 2015, 12:04:16 PM »
That said, I know proud parents and grandparents often cherish the rare occasion to see their children in formal military dress, and this is a family event.  Would it make sense to have him in the tuxedo uniform for the ceremony and pictures, then change to his military uniform for the reception?
That sounds like a great compromise, actually.

I agree.  I think it's a great solution not only because it's a compromise, but because it reflects the reality. 

During the ceremony, he's part of the wedding party.  So he dresses as such.  They want matching, they want tuxedoes, so that's it.  If you don't like it, decline.  It's not about you and who you are and whether or not anyone has proper respect for the military (whatever  that means).

But at the reception?  He's a guest.  Guests wear what they want, within the attire dictated by the invitation, occasion, and venue.  And unless I am missing something, for this wedding, that would include a military dress uniform. 

Perfect solution, and IMHO, if either the HC or Brother kicks about it, then it would strongly suggest that what's really going on is a power struggle on their part.

Goosey

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Re: Family argument - military dress in the wedding
« Reply #87 on: May 20, 2015, 12:10:27 PM »
Hasn't the OP come back and said the bride had made that compromise but that they were still kicking up a fuss?

Surianne

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Re: Family argument - military dress in the wedding
« Reply #88 on: May 20, 2015, 09:40:07 PM »
I personally think the bride is the one being ridiculous here, and disrespectful towards his service. 

But I've never really understood the need for the bridal party to play identically-dressed mannequins.

gellchom

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Re: Family argument - military dress in the wedding
« Reply #89 on: May 20, 2015, 10:48:46 PM »
That's awfully harsh.  I actually also usually prefer non-identically dressed wedding parties.  But there isn't only one right way to do things, and other people's preference doesn't have to be wrong for ours to be right. 

And certainly there is really no need to insult bridal couples who choose that look and to call their friends and relatives "mannequins."  Are people wearing military uniforms "identically-dressed mannequins"?  How would you feel if you heard someone call them that?