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Author Topic: Oh, It Felt Good....  (Read 12682 times)

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Sparkle Star

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Oh, It Felt Good....
« on: September 14, 2015, 04:37:27 AM »
BG:
Where we live, we are lucky enough to be able to walk our two dogs through some very quiet woodland. Especially in the winter, we might not see another soul and can let them off the lead without any worries. They rarely go far from us or lag behind. Occasionally we come across herds of local goats, but they are no issue - they don't bark at them and will come to us when called to go back on their leads before we walk quietly through the middle of the group, albeit wanting to stop and play with the herder's dogs.

There is another English guy who lives somewhere near us. A few months ago, Little Miss Star was walking our two along the lane - not in the woodland, so on the lead - when he appeared, with his dog (which is at least twice the size of our pups) off the lead. His dog flew at ours, barking and growling. As a result, our two are quite scared of his dog and will hide/whimper on the rare occasions he has appeared in the distance during walks.

END BG

Yesterday, I was walking our dogs in the woodland, off the lead, when he appeared suddenly. His dog was on its lead, mine weren't and I had no time to call them/grab them before they ran at his dog, growling and barking. They didn't attack and showed no signs of doing so - they were just being very vocal and trying to warn their enemy off, I think.

The man began kicking out at my dogs, swearing at them. I walked up quickly to put them on their leads, with a smile on my face, preparing to apologise and explain I couldn't grab them in time.

He shouted, and I quote: "Get your f&*%ing dogs away from mine, you should have them on a f&^%ing lead if you can't f&$%ing control them, the f%$Ģing little s%$&s."

That may well be true, and I wouldn't dream of having them off the lead in a public place or anywhere where people were likely to appear, but this was in remote woodland where I can walk for a couple of hours without seeing anyone. And no matter what, there was no need for that language, or for shouting.

He lost his chance of any apology. Instead, I merely said.....all together now..... "So kind of you to take an interest."

After which I and my dogs - now on their leads - walked off up the track away from him.  :)
Love, dance and chocolate fudge cake - what more do I need?

ladymaureen

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Re: Oh, It Felt Good....
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2015, 05:55:59 AM »
He didn't need to swear, but I think what he said is true, no matter where you are. If you cannot control your dogs, they should never be off the leash. As you see, when he was unable to control his dog, he started putting it on the leash. I suggest you do the same until you can work with your dogs to assure they will obey you.
I'm sorry that this opportunity to run your dogs unleashed is temporarily unavailable to you, and I hope you can resolve it soon.

Sparkle Star

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Re: Oh, It Felt Good....
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2015, 06:09:59 AM »
I do take your point, LadyMaureen, however....this is the only time I have ever seen his dog on a leash, even though there have been complaints from other people in the village about its aggressive behaviour, so he is no shining example.

My dogs are not aggressive to others - humans or animals - and are trained to come when called, hence us being happy to let them off the leash in such an isolated area; however, they are scared of this man's dog due to its behaviour towards them previously, and I believe they were being vocally defensive as this was the closest they had been since the first incident when his dog attacked them.

They did not physically attack either the man or his dog, they stopped moving when I shouted to them, and they were back on their leashes within 30 seconds.

Dogs are animals, at the end of the day, so I guess the argument would have to be whether it is EVER acceptable to let them off the leash anywhere, given that we can never know what might happen and how they might react.
Love, dance and chocolate fudge cake - what more do I need?

Runningstar

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Re: Oh, It Felt Good....
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2015, 07:29:50 AM »
I think that you might have to forget what happened in the background and look at what happened at the time.  Your dogs were the ones growling, there were two of them as opposed to one of his.  Yours were off their leads, his was on it.  Although you "know" your dogs and what they were going to do (some may not feel that we can "know" what animals will do and that is a whole other subject) the man doesn't and so took protective actions of kicking and yelling.
I'm not sure that it wasn't you that owed the apology for having your dogs off their leads.  He has had complaints and so has complied and kept his on a leash.   Really the only time that you can let your dogs  run freely might only be on your own property within a fenced area. 

Oh Joy

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Re: Oh, It Felt Good....
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2015, 07:53:17 AM »
Sorry, OP - two wrongs don't make a right.  Your dogs were off-leash and you couldn't grab them in time to keep them away from other walkers.  And I expect they appeared as suddenly to him as he did to you.  When your dogs are off-leash in a leashed area, what you "know" about your dogs is irrelevant; all that matters is what other walkers experience.


HannahGrace

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Re: Oh, It Felt Good....
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2015, 07:57:48 AM »
"...they ran at his dog, growling and barking."  While he should not have sworn at you or the dogs, I cannot blame the man for being startled and upset.  I do not think "so kind of you to take an interest" was an appropriate response in those circumstances.

SamiHami

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  • No! Iz mai catnip! You no can haz! YOU NO CAN HAZ!
Re: Oh, It Felt Good....
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2015, 10:04:24 AM »
I have to agree with the others. I hate to burst your bubble, but in this case you were the one in the wrong. Not that his behavior was excusable at all, but your dogs should have been leashed.

What have you got? Is it food? Is it for me? I want it whatever it is!

Betelnut

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Re: Oh, It Felt Good....
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2015, 10:44:59 AM »
But...it was a great use of that phrase!!   :)
Native Texan, Marylander currently

TootsNYC

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Re: Oh, It Felt Good....
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2015, 11:09:06 AM »
I think that you might have to forget what happened in the background and look at what happened at the time. 

Actually, I think what happened int he background is absolutely relevant.

First he and his dogs did it to you (off leash; aggression toward the leashed dog, particularly scary since the leashed dog can't run away).

Then you did it to him.

If he was wrong (and he was), you were.


GreenBird

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Re: Oh, It Felt Good....
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2015, 11:24:17 AM »
"So kind of you to take an interest" actually sounds like kind of a non-sequitur here.  Your dogs were off leash and misbehaving, so of course this guy "takes an interest" - your dogs are coming at him looking out of control.  I think you should have led off with "I'm so sorry", not some ehell brush-off phrase.  The fact that this guy has had the same problem with his dog doesn't let you off the hook for controlling your dogs.  The fact that he was swearing also doesn't let you off the hook; it's just a reason to keep any further interaction with him very brief.

I think you've got kind of a double standard here.  You say the other dog "attacked" your dogs, but you only describe them as growling and barking at your dogs.  Then you say your dogs ran up and growled and barked at the other dog, but they're not aggressive.  Either that behavior is all right, or it's not, and I think it's pretty clearly not all right.  Growling and barking is aggressive behavior.  It's nice that you know your dogs won't take it further than that, but other people can only go by what they see, and what they see is a couple of loose angry-looking dogs.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2015, 11:25:49 AM by GreenBird »

Kiwipinball

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Re: Oh, It Felt Good....
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2015, 11:56:22 AM »
I regularly yell at dogs who engage in that kind of behavior when I'm walking my dog (on a leash). Frequently my yelling at them will make them back down/go home/at least alert the owner(s). I wouldn't swear at the owner(s) but I have reported them to the police.

I don't know if there are rules/laws where you're walking the dogs, but I don't think dogs should be off leash unless they're in their own yard (preferably fenced - if not, they better not charge my dog and me) or designated off-leash areas. If a dog is 100% under control (very rare and they are animals so 100% probably isn't actually possible) it doesn't bother me (although if there is a rule/law it still violates it). The only time I have not been irritated by someone with an off-leash dog was at a park where the owner was having the dog fetch up in the woods off the path (the dog was well off the path, the owner was on it). When he saw us coming, he instructed the dog to stay up there and the dog did. My dog never realized there was any dog, let alone an off-leash dog, up there.

He should not have sworn at you, but I think you were in the wrong here. Just as he was in the wrong when his dog charged your dogs.

TootsNYC

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Re: Oh, It Felt Good....
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2015, 12:06:52 PM »
"So kind of you to take an interest" actually sounds like kind of a non-sequitur here.  Your dogs were off leash and misbehaving, so of course this guy "takes an interest" - your dogs are coming at him looking out of control.  I think you should have led off with "I'm so sorry", not some ehell brush-off phrase.  The fact that this guy has had the same problem with his dog doesn't let you off the hook for controlling your dogs.  ...

I was just coming back to say this. The guy *has* an interest in this topic. The "so kind of you to take an interest" is for unwarranted advice or pushiness where the person has no standing in the situation. But he was very, very directly involved in this situation--he was the target of it.

Quote
I think you've got kind of a double standard here.  You say the other dog "attacked" your dogs, but you only describe them as growling and barking at your dogs.  Then you say your dogs ran up and growled and barked at the other dog, but they're not aggressive.  Either that behavior is all right, or it's not, and I think it's pretty clearly not all right.  Growling and barking is aggressive behavior.  It's nice that you know your dogs won't take it further than that, but other people can only go by what they see, and what they see is a couple of loose angry-looking dogs.

I noticed that too--both situations were actually exactly the same. It's just that the first offender was the guy (and the first human victim was the OP's daughter); and in the second offense, the victim was foul-mouthed. But I would imagine both human victims were more than a little unnerved.

And OP,I don't want to nitpick your post, bcs of course what you write isn't automatically all the nuances of what happened, but...

Quote
I walked up quickly to put them on their leads, with a smile on my face, preparing to apologise and explain I couldn't grab them in time.

did you never call them? Was your only method of trying to control them to walk to them, instead of calling them to you (which might have de-escalated things rapidly, as well as clearly demonstrating that you do have some control over them even when they're off-leash). Something to think about for next time.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2015, 02:52:23 PM by TootsNYC »

Pooky582

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Re: Oh, It Felt Good....
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2015, 12:40:44 PM »
His attitude and swearing were unwarranted. Even if the OP did something wrong, his response isn't how you fix the situation. So I am not sure why he is being defended? He didn't give the OP a chance to right the situation before he verbally attacked her. Two wrongs may not make a right, but he is guilty of the exact same infraction and was way over the line in his verbal attack. My response would not have been civil if a grown man spoke to me like that.

KenveeB

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Re: Oh, It Felt Good....
« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2015, 01:18:21 PM »
His attitude and swearing were unwarranted. Even if the OP did something wrong, his response isn't how you fix the situation. So I am not sure why he is being defended? He didn't give the OP a chance to right the situation before he verbally attacked her. Two wrongs may not make a right, but he is guilty of the exact same infraction and was way over the line in his verbal attack. My response would not have been civil if a grown man spoke to me like that.

He's not being defended so much as OP is being criticized for the behavior she came in here proud of. If he came in here, we'd tell him that cursing wasn't an appropriate way to handle it. He's not here. OP is, and OP not just committed the infraction but was bragging about having done so. That's why there's a different response.

And I disagree that he didn't give OP "a chance to right the situation." She just walks up smiling while her dogs are acting aggressively towards him and his dog. No matter what she internally might have been planning on doing, what she actually did was nothing. I would've been calling my dogs off immediately and running like a lunatic to grab hold of them, not strolling up behind them to clip on their leads. OP's dogs were uncontrolled and acting aggressively, and she wasn't actually doing a thing to stop them. So I'm going to be a lot more forgiving of someone losing their temper in that situation and yelling. I might've said a few HBO words in that situation myself -- two unleashed dogs running up to yours barking and growling is absolutely terrifying! Any kind of unleashed dog encounter is a little nerve-wracking, much less one as aggressive as that. And then the owner just coming up behind them with a smile, not actually doing anything to help?? I would've been furious too.

DavidH

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Re: Oh, It Felt Good....
« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2015, 02:45:24 PM »
The brief version is my dogs were off their lead and ran barking and growling up to someone else with his dog on a lead.  He tried to fend them off and swore at me, so I replied "so kind of you to take an interest".   

Most people aren't fluent enough in dog to tell the difference between barking and growling to warn another dog off and barking and growling preparing to attack.  Was he rude, yes, of course swearing at someone is rude.  Is allowing your dogs to run up to someone barking and growling rude, yes.  Does him swearing give the OP a pass on letting her dogs run up to him barking and growling, no.  I'd be more likely to give him a pass, since having two dogs run up to you barking and growling can be unnerving to say the least.