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Author Topic: A Geneology etiquette question - would you want to know? new question @ #33  (Read 18745 times)

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EllenS

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I've actually found ancestry's family tree rather old fashioned and unforgiving. In a way that computers think they know better than you do.

Case in point: my grandmother was a female to male transsexual, he made the transition to male in the late sixties in England. This was mostly helping out from the genetic disorder he was born with that made him a functioning female (enough to conceive and give birth to my mother) in a male body with three chromosomes. It's so rare that I don't think it even HAS a name, I've looked and been unable to find a case parallel to his. His body was naturally transitioning to male anyway and operations in London finished the job.

Anyway, I tried to put this in on Ancestry, born female transitioned to male, had a child and then married a woman, my aunt (we grew up calling him Uncle and my son bears his name). But there's nothing on ancestry that reflects this and my aunt is referred to as my grandmother's husband on there. Which isn't true at all.

I hope they fix this and soon. :(

It's not the genders but the generations that have me confused on this.  How could your grandparent's spouse be your aunt or your uncle? Aunts and Uncles are the offspring of grandparents.

ETA:
Wait, I think I got sorted: Your biological grandmother, after reassignment, was referred to as Uncle? Because when I first read it, I thought the woman he married was the one you called Uncle.
No, we call her aunt and her husband, my grandmother we called uncle. Uncle is a good catch all for a family friend anyway.

Sorry for the mixup. I've encountered aunt to uncle (or vice versa) before, but grandmother to uncle threw me.

ClaireC79

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my grandmother was a female to male transsexual, he made the transition to male in the late sixties in England. This was mostly helping out from the genetic disorder he was born with that made him a functioning female (enough to conceive and give birth to my mother) in a male body with three chromosomes. It's so rare that I don't think it even HAS a name,

I was thinking guevedoce ( 5-alpha-reductase deficiency) but that altered at puberty and pretty sure they can't carry a child (as you can't conceive before puberty) - and I've not heard of a case in the UK

I'm wondering possible rare combination of Kleinfelter's syndrome coupled with 5-alpha-reductase deficiency.

or Swyer syndrome and klienfelters

Fasinating though
Not surprising Ancestry got confused though

Katana_Geldar

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my grandmother was a female to male transsexual, he made the transition to male in the late sixties in England. This was mostly helping out from the genetic disorder he was born with that made him a functioning female (enough to conceive and give birth to my mother) in a male body with three chromosomes. It's so rare that I don't think it even HAS a name,

I was thinking guevedoce ( 5-alpha-reductase deficiency) but that altered at puberty and pretty sure they can't carry a child (as you can't conceive before puberty) - and I've not heard of a case in the UK

I'm wondering possible rare combination of Kleinfelter's syndrome coupled with 5-alpha-reductase deficiency.

or Swyer syndrome and klienfelters

Fasinating though
Not surprising Ancestry got confused though
There are all sorts of characteristics if you want to PM me, don't want to digress the thread.
I am wondering why this isn't represented on ancestry though. It's much more common these days.

Margo

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Although it is more common now, it is presumably less common for historic relations. I'm guessing that the website will eventually update if and when the makers find they are getting lots of queries / requests.

Family history is full of issues. My mother has done a lot of research about both her own, and my Dad's famil histories. One issue she has is that my great grandfather was married twice - and both of his wives had the same first name. I seem to recall that when she first started putting information into Ancestry.com she had a lot of problems with the programming trying to auto correct entries as it wound't 'believe' 2nd wife's children as they postdated 1st wife';s death (I think at the time she only had one of the wive's dates of birth). And I know she has several times had strangers 'correcting' her about 1st wife's date of death or 2nd wife's marriage and birth dates.

She knows that the information she has is correct as when she started her research (well before the internet, or any online resources)  she spoke to various members of the family who knew the people concerned, she also had my great-grandfather's diaries and other family records. and yes, she is pretty confident that my great Aunt knew who her mother was and that she was not the same person as her step-mother!

Dazi

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my grandmother was a female to male transsexual, he made the transition to male in the late sixties in England. This was mostly helping out from the genetic disorder he was born with that made him a functioning female (enough to conceive and give birth to my mother) in a male body with three chromosomes. It's so rare that I don't think it even HAS a name,

I was thinking guevedoce ( 5-alpha-reductase deficiency) but that altered at puberty and pretty sure they can't carry a child (as you can't conceive before puberty) - and I've not heard of a case in the UK

I'm wondering possible rare combination of Kleinfelter's syndrome coupled with 5-alpha-reductase deficiency.

or Swyer syndrome and klienfelters

Fasinating though
Not surprising Ancestry got confused though

There's non-Klinefelter's XXY also. There have those who were identified as females and have had children.
Meditate. Live purely. Quiet the mind. Do your work with mastery. Like the moon, come out from behind the clouds! Shine. ---Gautama Buddah





VorFemme

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  • It's too darned hot! (song from Kiss Me, Kate)
I've actually found ancestry's family tree rather old fashioned and unforgiving. In a way that computers think they know better than you do.

Case in point: my grandmother was a female to male transsexual, he made the transition to male in the late sixties in England. This was mostly helping out from the genetic disorder he was born with that made him a functioning female (enough to conceive and give birth to my mother) in a male body with three chromosomes. It's so rare that I don't think it even HAS a name, I've looked and been unable to find a case parallel to his. His body was naturally transitioning to male anyway and operations in London finished the job.

Anyway, I tried to put this in on Ancestry, born female transitioned to male, had a child and then married a woman, my aunt (we grew up calling him Uncle and my son bears his name). But there's nothing on ancestry that reflects this and my aunt is referred to as my grandmother's husband on there. Which isn't true at all.

I hope they fix this and soon. :(

It's not the genders but the generations that have me confused on this.  How could your grandparent's spouse be your aunt or your uncle? Aunts and Uncles are the offspring of grandparents.

ETA:
Wait, I think I got sorted: Your biological grandmother, after reassignment, was referred to as Uncle? Because when I first read it, I thought the woman he married was the one you called Uncle.
No, we call her aunt and her husband, my grandmother we called uncle. Uncle is a good catch all for a family friend anyway.

"Uncle" is a lot easier to explain than calling a man married to a woman "Grandma".  I suppose the actual grandfather would still have been referred to as "Grandfather"...it can't have been easy for someone with that rare a condition to deal with the ramifications.
Let sleeping dragons be.......morning breath......need I explain?

EllenS

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I've actually found ancestry's family tree rather old fashioned and unforgiving. In a way that computers think they know better than you do.

Case in point: my grandmother was a female to male transsexual, he made the transition to male in the late sixties in England. This was mostly helping out from the genetic disorder he was born with that made him a functioning female (enough to conceive and give birth to my mother) in a male body with three chromosomes. It's so rare that I don't think it even HAS a name, I've looked and been unable to find a case parallel to his. His body was naturally transitioning to male anyway and operations in London finished the job.

Anyway, I tried to put this in on Ancestry, born female transitioned to male, had a child and then married a woman, my aunt (we grew up calling him Uncle and my son bears his name). But there's nothing on ancestry that reflects this and my aunt is referred to as my grandmother's husband on there. Which isn't true at all.

I hope they fix this and soon. :(

It's not the genders but the generations that have me confused on this.  How could your grandparent's spouse be your aunt or your uncle? Aunts and Uncles are the offspring of grandparents.

ETA:
Wait, I think I got sorted: Your biological grandmother, after reassignment, was referred to as Uncle? Because when I first read it, I thought the woman he married was the one you called Uncle.
No, we call her aunt and her husband, my grandmother we called uncle. Uncle is a good catch all for a family friend anyway.

"Uncle" is a lot easier to explain than calling a man married to a woman "Grandma".  I suppose the actual grandfather would still have been referred to as "Grandfather"...it can't have been easy for someone with that rare a condition to deal with the ramifications.

I didn't say she was wrong. I had trouble following the grammar of the story. I would have deleted my post when I figured it out, but it had been up a little while and that's frowned upon.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2015, 09:16:16 AM by EllenS »

ClaireC79

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One of the people trying to correct me hounded me for a month or so, because they simply would not believe that a person's granddaughter might actually know what was going on better than a very distant, twice-removed cousin.

My great grandfather I have a different date of birth on my ancestry tree than that on his birth certificate - I *know* his birthday is 6 days before the date on his birth certificate.  In the UK you had (still do) have 6 weeks to register the birth or you get fined.  His mother was late registering the birth so rather than paid the fine she simply moved his birth date to the one that was closest and avoided the fine. This was well known in the family as my great greatfather had told all of us how he'd found out in his 20s when his mum 'confessed' but he'd always carried on celebrating his birthday on the correct day.

I recently got hold of a copy of his birth certificate - surely enough the date of registration is 42 days after the date given as his birth date.
I have put a note on it though to explain why his birth date is 'wrong'

AmethystAnne

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It is true that not all birth/death certicates are accurate.

My next younger sister was stillborn (because of hydrocephalus). The date on her gravestone is September 2, 1955. Our parents have always said that was the date of her arrival, in the late afternoon. They never received any kind of official document.

This past summer, Mom, Dad, and I went to the township borough hall so that they could apply for and get a certificate for Sister. The clerk located the certificate in one of the record books. She typed up an official stillborn certificate(considered a death certificate-$10/copy).

Sister's information is listed as September 3, 1955 at 11something AM. There was nothing that could be changed on the certificate because that was recorded by the obstetrician in 1955.


knitwicca

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About links to the past....

My great-grandmother (paternal) was Cherokee named Mary Smith according to the U.S. Census. She married a white man. Their children passed as white in a time when being Native was not an asset.
My grandmother (half Cherokee and half white) married a man who was Cherokee. The only place where my grandparents' marriage is recorded is in the Cherokee Nation's Dawes Rolls.  My grandfather died when my father was a toddler...not certain how old my father was nor the actual cause of death for my grandfather.

My grandfather is listed on my great-grandparents' household census records by 2 different first name spellings.
His obituary listed his parents, his sisters and nieces. It did not list a wife nor child, in a time when first sons were most lauded.

To make things even more confusing, my mother claimed we were direct descendants of Frances Marion....who was generally known to have never fathered children according to the last information I was given.


« Last Edit: October 05, 2015, 01:34:12 PM by knitwicca »

Redneck Gravy

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And be watchful of those first pregnancies.  Elizabeth's mother was married (wedding license) 5 months before the birth of her first child (birth certificate).  Hmmmm....sometimes those first babies came early.   Yet as time went on, she always added one year to the length of her marriage, as reported in the census, so that her first child was "born" 17 months after her wedding.  Who was going to check back in the 1890's?

The first child (my great aunt) born to one set of my great-grandparents happened to have been born five days before her parents' wedding. (Blink) No one knows what happened.

I have never been able to confirm nor refute this information but I have been told that couples were often married by a pastor and then days/weeks/months passed before a traveling judge came through their area to sign a marriage certificate; that is why marriage dates and some marriage certificates do not match up.  Also why some marriage certificates may be dated nearer to a child's birth than is accurate.

Or that couples married or children were born and it was some time before anyone traveled into a township to record that information and then it may or may not have been recorded correctly. 

My aunt was born in Midland County, Texas in 1903 and her birth was recorded without a first name(?) as Baby Girl Lastname and not corrected until after 1980 when her birth certificate was needed for a social security issue.     

If eHellions have heard differently please advise...   

Lynn2000

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To make things even more confusing, my mother claimed we were direct descendants of Frances Marion....who was generally known to have never fathered children according to the last information I was given.

In the first half of the 19th century there was a vogue for naming people after Revolutionary War heroes. My family tree includes three brothers named George Washington Smith, Francis Marion Smith, and Nathaniel Greene Smith. There are about five people on my tree total whose names are George Washington X, with various surnames. Possibly, you're a descendant of a Francis Marion X instead? It would be easy for someone along the way to get that mixed up.
~Lynn2000

sandisadie

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I can think of one confusing issue in my tree.  My paternal great grandfather came from Liverpool, England.  He lived first in a north eastern state and married there.  Then they moved to Va. and lived there all the rest of their lives.  What's puzzling is that I have discovered a birth record for his first child which is recorded in the northern state and also a birth record in the state of Va.  I tend to think that the child was born in the northern state since it is even showing up in that state.  I have also found some death certificates with a different death date from that on the person's tombstone.  These I've found have been the correct person and not two different people.  Verified by other means.

Dr. F.

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About links to the past....

My great-grandmother (paternal) was Cherokee named Mary Smith according to the U.S. Census. She married a white man. Their children passed as white in a time when being Native was not an asset.
My grandmother (half Cherokee and half white) married a man who was Cherokee. The only place where my grandparents' marriage is recorded is in the Cherokee Nation's Dawes Rolls.  My grandfather died when my father was a toddler...not certain how old my father was nor the actual cause of death for my grandfather.

My grandfather is listed on my great-grandparents' household census records by 2 different first name spellings.
His obituary listed his parents, his sisters and nieces. It did not list a wife nor child, in a time when first sons were most lauded.

To make things even more confusing, my mother claimed we were direct descendants of Frances Marion....who was generally known to have never fathered children according to the last information I was given.

Frances Marion adopted his great-nephew, Francis Dwight, who changed his last name to Marion. Dwight also married his cousin, Rebecca Alston Marion. I'm a direct descent on the family, also.