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Author Topic: Already married  (Read 17025 times)

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Yvaine

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Re: Already married
« Reply #45 on: February 12, 2016, 08:37:21 AM »
I meant a marriage crisis, not something external.

To me it smacks of wanting their cake and eating it.

Why would an internal marriage crisis merit having a public vow renewal?

Because the couple might feel that they haven't kept to the original vows, thus voiding them in a way, and wish to make new vows that they're newly committed to keeping.

???  That would be a really weird thing to make public.

Some couples separate (in the legal sense) and then reconcile instead of proceeding to a divorce.  That's the usual situation for that kind of vow renewal, since the separation is usually public knowledge, and the renewal is literally re-establishing them as a couple in the eyes of the community.

But, they don't do that and then have a big party, do they?  I have never heard of such a thing--is it part of a certain religion.

I understand the circumstances that you are describing and I could believe that a couple might want to have a small vow renewal ceremony for going forward.  But, I cannot imagine that it would ever bear any resemblance to a wedding whatsoever in terms of dress, party, etc.

Doing such a thing would require admitting to a whole lot of people that someone in the marriage broke their vows--never heard of anyone doing that--would feel really awkward for someone to do that.

I think this may actually be how vow renewals got started. It's not a specific religion, as far as I know, but people sometimes do incorporate their beliefs.

People don't go into the TMI--"We were both having affairs lol!"--it's like greencat says above: they separated for a while, everyone knew that, and then they have the ceremony when they decide to reconcile. Again, it's not the TMI stuff, it's the public-knowledge stuff of whether they live together or not.

I think it was later that vow renewals evolved into something that people often do on a milestone anniversary, even if they've been perfectly happy.

sammycat

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Re: Already married
« Reply #46 on: February 12, 2016, 09:08:54 AM »
If I were one of your guests, I'd understand the reason for your earlier quiet, intimate ceremony.  Of course you want both mothers there to see the two of you begin your new life together.

And I can tell you with absolute honesty that I wouldn't blink an eye at your having another ceremony in a small church or a huge cathedral on the previously planned wedding day. 

I'm not sure what the pastor/priest/rabbi person would want to call it, but in some cultures there are always two ceremonies.  One at our equivalent of a courthouse for legality and the other in a house of worship with friends and family as a religious rite.  Two different kinds of ceremonies, each having a valid place.

And I'd follow it up with your reception as you had originally planned.  Why not?

Pod.

I'm generally against having two weddings, but having terminally ill family members is one of the very few times I wouldn't blink an eye at it.

To answer the OP question, I would send out the July invitations after the first ceremony, with a brief note explaining the change in circumstances. Hopefully everyone will be very supportive.

I'm sorry for your situation OP.

Outdoor Girl

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Re: Already married
« Reply #47 on: February 12, 2016, 09:18:35 AM »
Send your invitations to the event you originally planned after you have your small ceremony, with the note enclosed.

That way, anyone who would be offended by the two ceremonies can stay home.  Personally, I wouldn't want anyone who was offended by it to attend, anyway.  Anyone who objected to a small intimate ceremony ahead of time so my dying mother and mother-in-law could witness the marriage isn't someone I'd want to keep as a friend.

While the circumstances are far from ideal, I hope you can make the best of it and enjoy your wedding day.  Both of them.
After cleaning out my Dad's house, I have this advice:  If you haven't used it in a year, throw it out!!!!.
Ontario

mime

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Re: Already married
« Reply #48 on: February 12, 2016, 10:47:04 AM »
Send your invitations to the event you originally planned after you have your small ceremony, with the note enclosed.

That way, anyone who would be offended by the two ceremonies can stay home.  Personally, I wouldn't want anyone who was offended by it to attend, anyway.  Anyone who objected to a small intimate ceremony ahead of time so my dying mother and mother-in-law could witness the marriage isn't someone I'd want to keep as a friend.

While the circumstances are far from ideal, I hope you can make the best of it and enjoy your wedding day.  Both of them.

POD.

JoieGirl7

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Re: Already married
« Reply #49 on: February 12, 2016, 11:25:49 AM »
I meant a marriage crisis, not something external.

To me it smacks of wanting their cake and eating it.

Why would an internal marriage crisis merit having a public vow renewal?

Because the couple might feel that they haven't kept to the original vows, thus voiding them in a way, and wish to make new vows that they're newly committed to keeping.

???  That would be a really weird thing to make public.

Some couples separate (in the legal sense) and then reconcile instead of proceeding to a divorce.  That's the usual situation for that kind of vow renewal, since the separation is usually public knowledge, and the renewal is literally re-establishing them as a couple in the eyes of the community.

But, they don't do that and then have a big party, do they?  I have never heard of such a thing--is it part of a certain religion.

I understand the circumstances that you are describing and I could believe that a couple might want to have a small vow renewal ceremony for going forward.  But, I cannot imagine that it would ever bear any resemblance to a wedding whatsoever in terms of dress, party, etc.

Doing such a thing would require admitting to a whole lot of people that someone in the marriage broke their vows--never heard of anyone doing that--would feel really awkward for someone to do that.

I think this may actually be how vow renewals got started. It's not a specific religion, as far as I know, but people sometimes do incorporate their beliefs.

People don't go into the TMI--"We were both having affairs lol!"--it's like greencat says above: they separated for a while, everyone knew that, and then they have the ceremony when they decide to reconcile. Again, it's not the TMI stuff, it's the public-knowledge stuff of whether they live together or not.

I think it was later that vow renewals evolved into something that people often do on a milestone anniversary, even if they've been perfectly happy.

It doesn't explain why a previous poster would say that it would be ok to have a vow renewal within a few months of the wedding.  Vow renewals after along periods of time is fairly standard.  But the poster said that it would only be ok for a re-enactment of sorts after a few months in the case of a "marriage crisis" and this doesn't make sense to me.

QueenfaninCA

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Re: Already married
« Reply #50 on: February 12, 2016, 12:05:04 PM »
It doesn't explain why a previous poster would say that it would be ok to have a vow renewal within a few months of the wedding.  Vow renewals after along periods of time is fairly standard.  But the poster said that it would only be ok for a re-enactment of sorts after a few months in the case of a "marriage crisis" and this doesn't make sense to me.

I think you  misunderstood me. I am actually against vow renewals after three months because I think they have their place at a milestone anniversary or after a crisis. IMHO those vow renewals after a few months of marriage are re-enactments which are fine and dandy for truly historic events but not for Jane and John  Doe's wedding.

I'm happy to see my friends get married because it is an important event in their lives. But if I can't be there for some reason or another, I don't really need a re-enactment because essentially that's just play-acting.

Goosey

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Re: Already married
« Reply #51 on: February 12, 2016, 12:29:49 PM »
It doesn't explain why a previous poster would say that it would be ok to have a vow renewal within a few months of the wedding.  Vow renewals after along periods of time is fairly standard.  But the poster said that it would only be ok for a re-enactment of sorts after a few months in the case of a "marriage crisis" and this doesn't make sense to me.

I think you  misunderstood me. I am actually against vow renewals after three months because I think they have their place at a milestone anniversary or after a crisis. IMHO those vow renewals after a few months of marriage are re-enactments which are fine and dandy for truly historic events but not for Jane and John  Doe's wedding.

I'm happy to see my friends get married because it is an important event in their lives. But if I can't be there for some reason or another, I don't really need a re-enactment because essentially that's just play-acting.

But what if this vow renewal was an important milestone in their lives to them? Or are things you consider milestones more important than things your friends consider milestones? You wouldn't want to celebrate a new marriage with your friends? It's not a good enough reason to celebrate with them?

Either way, I don't think that choosing one way or the other makes it a "rule". It's better to be up front and honest about it so you weed out people who are going to turn their nose up at the celebration.

QueenfaninCA

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Re: Already married
« Reply #52 on: February 12, 2016, 12:38:49 PM »
But what if this vow renewal was an important milestone in their lives to them? Or are things you consider milestones more important than things your friends consider milestones? You wouldn't want to celebrate a new marriage with your friends? It's not a good enough reason to celebrate with them?

Either way, I don't think that choosing one way or the other makes it a "rule". It's better to be up front and honest about it so you weed out people who are going to turn their nose up at the celebration.

Sorry, but three months is not a milestone. I don't have a problem with celebrating a few months after the real wedding. I just don't think that celebration is the place for a re-enactment of the wedding vows or a vow renewal. For me that ceremony would have zero meaning and I would probably skip it.

Goosey

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Re: Already married
« Reply #53 on: February 12, 2016, 12:47:37 PM »
But what if this vow renewal was an important milestone in their lives to them? Or are things you consider milestones more important than things your friends consider milestones? You wouldn't want to celebrate a new marriage with your friends? It's not a good enough reason to celebrate with them?

Either way, I don't think that choosing one way or the other makes it a "rule". It's better to be up front and honest about it so you weed out people who are going to turn their nose up at the celebration.

Sorry, but three months is not a milestone. I don't have a problem with celebrating a few months after the real wedding. I just don't think that celebration is the place for a re-enactment of the wedding vows or a vow renewal. For me that ceremony would have zero meaning and I would probably skip it.

Three months isn't a milestone - the wedding itself was a milestone. The vow renewal is a celebration of that marriage for people who couldn't be there.

For me, a celebration is about what is meaningful to my friends and I don't expect them to revolve themselves around what is important to me. I would find it very off putting for a friend to tell me that she couldn't be at my celebration because it had 0 meaning to her. If it was meaningful to me and she was supposed to be my friend, shouldn't some of that rub off? If not, then I would need to re-evaluate my friendship and maybe not invite her to my next milestone event.

QueenfaninCA

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Re: Already married
« Reply #54 on: February 12, 2016, 01:21:20 PM »

Three months isn't a milestone - the wedding itself was a milestone. The vow renewal is a celebration of that marriage for people who couldn't be there.

For me, a celebration is about what is meaningful to my friends and I don't expect them to revolve themselves around what is important to me. I would find it very off putting for a friend to tell me that she couldn't be at my celebration because it had 0 meaning to her. If it was meaningful to me and she was supposed to be my friend, shouldn't some of that rub off? If not, then I would need to re-evaluate my friendship and maybe not invite her to my next milestone event.

Are you truying to misunderstand me on purpose? I've never said not to have a celebration. Just skip the IMVHO meaningless ceremony part. And BTW obviously the friend wasn't invited to the milestone event (the actual wedding) in the first place.

gramma dishes

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Re: Already married
« Reply #55 on: February 12, 2016, 01:29:59 PM »

Are you truying to misunderstand me on purpose? I've never said not to have a celebration. Just skip the IMVHO meaningless ceremony part. And BTW obviously the friend wasn't invited to the milestone event (the actual wedding) in the first place.

I certainly do not agree that the original wedding date as planned is a "meaningless ceremony".  It's a very important ceremony which had to be rearranged slightly in order to allow two dying mothers to attend their children's wedding.

Certainly there are many other friends and family who consider this wedding important and who were invited to the event as originally planned, but could not be accommodated at the simpler, far more intimate one put together hastily for such sweet and loving reasons.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with having both ceremonies as long as those attending the one originally planned realize that the couple is already legally married.

Edited to correct a shocking number of typos!  :-[
« Last Edit: February 12, 2016, 01:36:05 PM by gramma dishes »

lmyrs

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Re: Already married
« Reply #56 on: February 12, 2016, 01:31:08 PM »

Three months isn't a milestone - the wedding itself was a milestone. The vow renewal is a celebration of that marriage for people who couldn't be there.

For me, a celebration is about what is meaningful to my friends and I don't expect them to revolve themselves around what is important to me. I would find it very off putting for a friend to tell me that she couldn't be at my celebration because it had 0 meaning to her. If it was meaningful to me and she was supposed to be my friend, shouldn't some of that rub off? If not, then I would need to re-evaluate my friendship and maybe not invite her to my next milestone event.

Are you truying to misunderstand me on purpose? I've never said not to have a celebration. Just skip the IMVHO meaningless ceremony part. And BTW obviously the friend wasn't invited to the milestone event (the actual wedding) in the first place.

I'm with Goosey. If I find something to be meaningful to me and choose to celebrate it, then that's my decision. My friend may not agree. But, that doesn't give said friend a right to tell me what I am allowed to find meaningful. Just bow out gracefully. No need to try to make your friend feel small and foolish for finding meaning in something that you don't.


Goosey

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Re: Already married
« Reply #57 on: February 12, 2016, 01:33:45 PM »

Three months isn't a milestone - the wedding itself was a milestone. The vow renewal is a celebration of that marriage for people who couldn't be there.

For me, a celebration is about what is meaningful to my friends and I don't expect them to revolve themselves around what is important to me. I would find it very off putting for a friend to tell me that she couldn't be at my celebration because it had 0 meaning to her. If it was meaningful to me and she was supposed to be my friend, shouldn't some of that rub off? If not, then I would need to re-evaluate my friendship and maybe not invite her to my next milestone event.

Are you truying to misunderstand me on purpose? I've never said not to have a celebration. Just skip the IMVHO meaningless ceremony part. And BTW obviously the friend wasn't invited to the milestone event (the actual wedding) in the first place.

I'm with Goosey. If I find something to be meaningful to me and choose to celebrate it, then that's my decision. My friend may not agree. But, that doesn't give said friend a right to tell me what I am allowed to find meaningful. Just bow out gracefully. No need to try to make your friend feel small and foolish for finding meaning in something that you don't.

Bingo.

I see no reason why they could not find the vow renewal a meaningful part of their celebration. I'm not purposefully misunderstanding you, I'm just completely disagreeing with you.

GreenBird

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Re: Already married
« Reply #58 on: February 12, 2016, 01:48:09 PM »
Given the circumstances, I'd be looking at the second ceremony as more of an extension of the first ceremony rather than a re-enactment.  It's a short time between the two events, and if things were different it would be only one ceremony for the couple to be married before their mothers, and before their extended family and friends.  The fact that it will now be two occasions rather than one is just a function of the unfortunate circumstances.  But it doesn't change what they're trying to do, which is to be married in front of the people they care about.  I don't see anything wrong with the plan, and wouldn't want the couple to feel bad or awkward about it at all. 

Mustard

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Re: Already married
« Reply #59 on: February 12, 2016, 02:07:33 PM »
I admit that I have only skimmed through these posts and so haven't picked up whether the wedding with hopefully both mothers in attendance is at a registry office or a church.  If the former I see no reason why a blessing cannot take place in church at a later date.


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