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Author Topic: This book is full of "interesting assumptions".  (Read 20500 times)

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sammycat

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Re: This book is full of "interesting assumptions".
« Reply #45 on: May 07, 2016, 08:23:53 PM »
In the very first photo, the person giving her a "dirty look" appears to be a girl of about 12 years old. It's clearly not a "selfie" so there's a photographer. Maybe the kid is thinking "Why is this creep taking a picture of a 12 year old kid in a bikini?" I would be furious if my kid appeared in this lady's project.

THIS!  It's one thing for the girl to be seen by the people in the immediate vicinity of the beach, but I would be chasing his woman down if I found out that she/anyone had published a photo of my (hypothetical) young bikini-clad daughter in an book/article/art project without my permission (permission I would not give in a million years).

This woman is a self centred egotistical SS  of the highest order.  I read all the comments here before clicking the link and was expecting to see a person the size of a house (which she's not). Yes, she's large and overweight, but I see people of that size and bigger every day; so she's not unique.  I don't give them a thought. Why does this lady think she's so special that everyone's looking at, or thinking about, her? 

I bet if a super slim or average sized person stood in the same spots with the same set up they'd get the same looks as are in these photos. It's the activity people are looking at, not the subject matter.

lorelai

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Re: This book is full of "interesting assumptions".
« Reply #46 on: May 07, 2016, 08:37:21 PM »
If no one here bought that the expressions in the photos were that of disdain, then what's the problem? I didn't buy it either - I think it's too difficult to know what people are thinking and to attribute disgust or disdain on these particular strangers who were photographed. All the same, I appreciate the opportunity to reflect on the issue and to acknowledge that it DOES happen. She admits she doesn't know what they think, but the fact is that she does experience size-ism and so do many others. I don't get all the judgment looking down on her project, when by everyone's interpretation in this thread, she's not actually making anyone else look bad.

EllenS

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Re: This book is full of "interesting assumptions".
« Reply #47 on: May 07, 2016, 10:01:38 PM »
If no one here bought that the expressions in the photos were that of disdain, then what's the problem? I didn't buy it either - I think it's too difficult to know what people are thinking and to attribute disgust or disdain on these particular strangers who were photographed. All the same, I appreciate the opportunity to reflect on the issue and to acknowledge that it DOES happen. She admits she doesn't know what they think, but the fact is that she does experience size-ism and so do many others. I don't get all the judgment looking down on her project, when by everyone's interpretation in this thread, she's not actually making anyone else look bad.

I don't think it's "wrong". I think it's poorly conceptualized, weakly executed picture-taking that's been trumped up with some academic language to pass for art. While its main draw for media attention is that it touches on a hot-button social topic. Her main insight into the human condition, as far as I can see, is how to get PR.

It's not a bad line of work, if you have the knack.

Psychopoesie

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Re: This book is full of "interesting assumptions".
« Reply #48 on: May 07, 2016, 10:46:18 PM »
This is a really interesting discussion.
 
I found an article where the artist, Morris-Cafiero, talks more about her life experience and gives some background to one of the pictures she took, Gelato:

Quote
In my peripheral vision, I saw a teen girl waiting for the signal to cross the street. As I stood there, eating my ice cream, I heard a repetitive “SLAP, SLAP, SLAP” of a hand on skin. I signaled to my assistant to shoot. It was only when I returned home to Memphis and got the film developed that I realized the sound was the girl hitting her belly as she watched me eat. She did this over and over. I have five frames of her with various facial expressions. I called the resulting image “Gelato.”

It also sound like Morris-Cafiero has an assistant who takes the pic for her. So I'm not sure if there's always a tripod involved.

http://www.salon.com/2013/04/23/pictures_of_people_who_mock_me/

lmyrs

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Re: This book is full of "interesting assumptions".
« Reply #49 on: May 08, 2016, 12:43:31 AM »
If no one here bought that the expressions in the photos were that of disdain, then what's the problem? I didn't buy it either - I think it's too difficult to know what people are thinking and to attribute disgust or disdain on these particular strangers who were photographed. All the same, I appreciate the opportunity to reflect on the issue and to acknowledge that it DOES happen. She admits she doesn't know what they think, but the fact is that she does experience size-ism and so do many others. I don't get all the judgment looking down on her project, when by everyone's interpretation in this thread, she's not actually making anyone else look bad.

The problem is that the "artist" is trying to deliberately shame complete strangers, including minor children, without any idea what's going on in their heads. If she took a shot with someone looking at her disapprovingly and that someone happened to be larger than her, would she assume that their facial expression was because they thought she was too fat? If the answer to that is no, then she shouldn't assume that of her other "subjects".

iridaceae

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Re: This book is full of "interesting assumptions".
« Reply #50 on: May 08, 2016, 12:46:20 AM »
Zizi-K, although you presumed we a r e all thin model types, I am not. I would guess, in fact, that I am within 15 pounds of Ms. Assumption. So don't pull the old "well, if only you could be fat for one day you would understand!" line because it's nonsense.

Is their anti-fat bias? Sure.

Do I think every person she has ever run across is fat-biased against her as she seems to think? Nope.

Nothing to see here.

sammycat

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Re: This book is full of "interesting assumptions".
« Reply #51 on: May 08, 2016, 02:27:40 AM »
The problem is that the "artist" is trying to deliberately shame complete strangers, including minor children, without any idea what's going on in their heads.

Pod.

This is my main problem with this project. She's projecting her own thoughts and feelings, which she's entitled to do in her own mind. IMO what's she not entitled to do is put that into a public arena, especially where the unwitting subjects have no chance of recourse, particularly once the book has been published. 

And using minor children, especially without consent? Oh ehell no.

Zizi-K

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Re: This book is full of "interesting assumptions".
« Reply #52 on: May 08, 2016, 09:00:40 AM »
Zizi-K, although you presumed we a r e all thin model types, I am not. I would guess, in fact, that I am within 15 pounds of Ms. Assumption. So don't pull the old "well, if only you could be fat for one day you would understand!" line because it's nonsense.

Is their anti-fat bias? Sure.

Do I think every person she has ever run across is fat-biased against her as she seems to think? Nope.

Hello, hyperbole.

I have not made that assumption. There are plenty of fat people who blame themselves for the treatment they experience, and don't believe they deserve any better. Cultural biases infect us all.

I think there are a lot of "interesting assumptions" happening around this artist: that she is trying to "shame" the people that appear in her photographs, that she thinks the whole world is out to get her and sees animus everywhere, etc. Also-- lots of assumptions going on about what the people in the photographs are thinking and feeling, as well as the situations around these photos.

The artist has presented a series of what are ultimately ambiguous photographs. Yes, she presents them through her text in one way. What one reads into them says about more about the interpreter than it does about the artist, in the end.

iridaceae

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Re: This book is full of "interesting assumptions".
« Reply #53 on: May 08, 2016, 09:05:49 AM »
Yes and by her own testimony many of the assumptions are hers.

For what it's worth I think therapy instead of blasting strangers' face online and in books decrying them as fat-shamers with no proof would be a better option for her.
Nothing to see here.

TeamBhakta

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Re: This book is full of "interesting assumptions".
« Reply #54 on: May 08, 2016, 09:25:48 AM »
Quote

The artist has presented a series of what are ultimately ambiguous photographs. Yes, she presents them through her text in one way. What one reads into them says about more about the interpreter than it does about the artist, in the end.

That's kind of a cop-out, though (in general / artistically, not meaning you specifically). It's like when someone does hurtful / rude & then follows up with "It's not my fault you took that the wrong way." That's unfair for the artist to present photos as "these are people hating on me in public", then backpedal at a later date with "I didn't say all of them did something wrong, but one rude teen did so I'm justified in condemning everyone else."
« Last Edit: May 08, 2016, 09:34:02 AM by TeamBhakta »

Zizi-K

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Re: This book is full of "interesting assumptions".
« Reply #55 on: May 08, 2016, 09:59:29 AM »
Yes and by her own testimony many of the assumptions are hers.

For what it's worth I think therapy instead of blasting strangers' face online and in books decrying them as fat-shamers with no proof would be a better option for her.

It's an art project, not an indictment. It's not about them. No "proof" necessary. It's testimony about her own experiences. Perhaps this work is therapeutic for her. It registers to me an empowering act. 

iridaceae

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Re: This book is full of "interesting assumptions".
« Reply #56 on: May 08, 2016, 10:01:37 AM »


That's kind of a cop-out, though (in general / artistically, not meaning you specifically). It's like when someone does hurtful / rude & then follows up with "It's not my fault you took that the wrong way." That's unfair for the artist to present photos as "these are people hating on me in public", then backpedal at a later date with "I didn't say all of them did something wrong, but one rude teen did so I'm justified in condemning everyone else."

Yep. I am not excusing that teen at all-she was clearly rude- but I also bet the teen does rude things to the disabled, the disfigured and anyone she thinks is ugly.


Of course it's about them. That's why it's photos and not memoirs or a scholarly tome.
Nothing to see here.

Zizi-K

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Re: This book is full of "interesting assumptions".
« Reply #57 on: May 08, 2016, 10:03:28 AM »
Quote

The artist has presented a series of what are ultimately ambiguous photographs. Yes, she presents them through her text in one way. What one reads into them says about more about the interpreter than it does about the artist, in the end.

That's kind of a cop-out, though (in general / artistically, not meaning you specifically). It's like when someone does hurtful / rude & then follows up with "It's not my fault you took that the wrong way." That's unfair for the artist to present photos as "these are people hating on me in public", then backpedal at a later date with "I didn't say all of them did something wrong, but one rude teen did so I'm justified in condemning everyone else."

That would be true if any of the posters here were actually featured in the photographs. As it stands, I see a lot of speculative indignance on others' behalf. This artist wasn't rude to anyone here! So, I stand by the suggestion that, in response to a body of art one's own responses are worth reflecting upon.


lmyrs

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Re: This book is full of "interesting assumptions".
« Reply #58 on: May 08, 2016, 11:20:46 AM »
So where is the line? How far is the "artist" allowed to go in misrepresenting those around her? I could take a 12 year old girl to those places and start shooting photos of her and once I went through them all, I could probably find some where the people in the background were looking in her direction with odd expressions. Can I publish those and say that those people are leering paedophiles? Or is it only ok to imply that they're leering ppaedophiles if I go back later and say, "well maybe some of them aren't".

It's an absurd example but if that is not ok, then where is the line?

Mustard

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Re: This book is full of "interesting assumptions".
« Reply #59 on: May 08, 2016, 11:44:28 AM »
...
Yep. I am not excusing that teen at all-she was clearly rude- but I also bet the teen does rude things to the disabled, the disfigured and anyone she thinks is ugly.


I don't think anyone can say with certainty that the teenaged girl was 'clearly rude' either!  My son sometimes slaps his body and it has nothing to do with the people around him, merely one of the ways his disability manifests itself. 

I don't know what 'art' is, if this is it.


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