Deadbeat and Absent Fathers

[Sandi Papaya]

This is nothing new under the sun.

I was raised by a single mom, because, for those who don't know my history, my dad was married. To someone else. Thirty-some-odd years and 2 kids later, they're still together, although my dad has another family, other children, and IS MARRIED. It's not uncommon in Latin America for a man to have a "second family," but in the US, there's a bit of a stigma to it. However, I don't let it attach itself to me, because the decisions my mother made in her irresponsible youth as far as who would be a good father to her children were...well...her decisions. It's not my fault she didn't play it smart and protect herself - or that she messed around with a married man.

My dad, to his credit, gave her money, but it was not child support - it was mainly under the table, so to speak. He did not, however, give me or my brother much emotional support and he is paying for that now in at least one case (mine), because the emotional gulf between us is great. My mother doesn't understand it and holds it against me, but again, I refuse to pay for the sins of my parents. I love my mother and goodness knows I would lay down my life for her, but I wouldn't grieve overmuch if my dad were lying in the gutter bleeding, because he could never be bothered to be there for me when it counted. And when it came to material things - forget it. His "real" kids got the best of everything, cars, private educations, name-brand clothes, you name it. We weren't dirt-poor, but my brother and I certainly didn't live in the lap of luxury, either.

My mom collected welfare for us until I was about nine - and then that was when they really got into tracking down the fathers of children on welfare (in CA) so they could slap them with support enforcement orders. Well - it was discovered after all those years my dad had never paid a dime of state child support, so it was either - pony up and pay it until the kids turn 18, or we put a lien on your house and make you pay back all the state assistance your kids got. My father chose the latter option, because he felt he was already supporting us "enough." My mom went into the workforce, but chose not to work full-time so as not to take more time from us than she needed to.

So...I should be grateful, I suppose, that he grudgingly paid back what he should have been paying for all those years. I should be grateful that I had to work my way through college and get scholarships, grants and loans, because my mom's income definitely didn't cover things like college - it barely covered the necessities.

Actually, I am grateful - because it showed me, as a woman, how not to choose a life partner. I'm still holding out for someone who is honorable, faithful and who respects me and my strength, not someone who can control me and manipulate me and abuse me emotionally as my father has done to my mother - and has even attempted to do to me.

[Venus193]

I've wondered too, about the enormous army of single mothers out there.

When I was pregnant, I was very, very sick and had to go for blood transfusions every two weeks. ....

Incredible; you have been through the wars.  I couldn't imagine having to travel like that for blood transfusions.  You deserve better than that.

[Musicwoman]

My grandfather had a deadbeat mother.  When he was 4 she walked out on the family (we're not sure of the reason, but we think she ran off with another man).  She left behind 4 children, ranging in age from 14 to 4.  The baby she took with her.

The oldest was a boy, and was able to find work on a remote cattle station, which took care of him.  But my great-grandfather was unable to look after the younger children and work to support them (he was an itinerent shearer).  He lost custody of them and they were raised in an orphanage as wards of the state.

None of them ever heard a word from their mother again.  It wasn't a case of my great-grandfather tearing up her letters, as he didn't have the opportunity once they'd gone to the orphanage.  It wouldn't have been difficult for her to trace them, she just never attempted to.

They did hear from the baby sister again.  She turned up at my great-grandfather's funeral 30 years later.  My grandfather and his sisters did build a relationship of sorts with her, but were never interested in the numerous half-brothers and sisters by THREE different men. 

[smarterthanu213]

IMHO, I think that it is due to society's rampant issue with casual sex. So many young men are getting stuck with kids they don't want...and even some older men. It seems to me that, in our society, sex has become so casual and commonplace that a guy could get stuck with several kids pretty easy and then not want any of them.

I think that the reason there are more deadbeat dads than moms is obvious--the man can run at the first sign of life, so to speak, and the woman obviously can't without getting an abortion.

[Sandi Papaya]

IMHO, I think that it is due to society's rampant issue with casual sex.

It's not. Casual sex has been with humankind since the beginning of time and will be here long after we are gone. It's not a new attitude, it's not a new thing. It's just more out in the open now.

Long after Maury Povich has turned to dust and paternity can be proven with something even simpler than DNA, whatever form of technology that might take, casual sex will still be an issue. It's not about society "today" or our "decaying moral values" or any such thing. It's always been this way - it's just that back in the day, people tended toward being more discreet.

Personally I don't place much faith in a man who won't take the time or the initiative to protect himself from disease or from impregnating a woman. It's one of the reasons that my ex lost points with me - because we had agreed on birth control being a mutual responsibility that we would undertake from both ends, but when it came right down to it he always "forgot" to hold up his end of the bargain. He had no problems giving me the five bucks for his share of my copay for the Pill, because I was the one going up to the counter and buying them, but the last straw for me was when he would not go to the pharmacy counter with a box of condoms - we're talking a 22-year-old male here.

Granted, I've been buying "feminine hygiene" supplies from the age of 13 and birth control since I was 18, so it takes a lot to faze me, but when he handed ME the box and the money to pay for said box, I asked what he was doing, and he said he was "too embarrassed" to buy that box of condoms.

We were in Indianapolis, in a gigantic Wal-Mart, in a place where we knew no one and no one knew us. It would have been a little different if we had been in his hometown, which is much smaller and much less anonymous than my bedroom-community exurb, but we were in the middle of a fairly large city where, again, NO ONE KNEW US. Or cared what we were buying.

He lost points with me over that. Actually, he lost points over a lot of issues, but that was one of the first ones that really brought home to me just how "responsible" he wanted to be. He talked a big game, but when it came time to walk the walk, he didn't do it. It's not the reason our relationship ended, but had I been the one to end it, this would have been one of the reasons I would have cited.

[sammycat]

IMHO, I think that it is due to society's rampant issue with casual sex. So many young men are getting stuck with kids they don't want...and even some older men. It seems to me that, in our society, sex has become so casual and commonplace that a guy could get stuck with several kids pretty easy and then not want any of them.

I think that the reason there are more deadbeat dads than moms is obvious--the man can run at the first sign of life, so to speak, and the woman obviously can't without getting an abortion.

About 15 years ago a friend of mine fell pregnant to her then boyfriend; he was 22 or 23 and she was a 30 year old widow with a 4 year old son.  I think she said the pill failed (she was on it for other medical reasons)  but I can't remember for sure now.  When she told the boyfriend she was pregnant he told her that if she had the baby he would quit his job and go on the dole (unemployment benefit) so that she would never get a cent out of him.  She had a very low paying job and felt, rightly or wrongly, that under the circumstances she had no choice but to have an abortion.  Oh, and boyfriend didn't stick around after that anyway.

Please note:  I am not turning this into a discussion for or against abortion, simply relating the facts of a situation someone I know was in.

[behindbj]

Excuse me for a moment.

behindbj runs off to give her mother and father great big hugs and kisses

Ok, I'm back.  Holy cow - each and everyone out there who has been unfortunate enough to find themselves with someone who refused to hold up their end of the bargain (mother, father, husbadn, wife, boyfriend, girlfriend, whatever) gets my immediate and future respect (in addition to the esteem in which I hold members of this board...).  And several hugs.

Silly me.  I thought a man was someone who took responsibility for his actions and did things he didn't want to do because he had to (like make a left turn in life to deal with the kid he now has or - as this board has made clear - GET A JOB).  I have never understood the definition of "man" to include a tally of children. 

Then again, I also don't think the definitions of "mother" and "father" end with the procreation portion of the program, either.

But, that's me.

behindbj

[Venus193]

... but when it came right down to it he always "forgot" to hold up his end of the bargain. He had no problems giving me the five bucks for his share of my copay for the Pill, because I was the one going up to the counter and buying them, but the last straw for me was when he would not go to the pharmacy counter with a box of condoms - we're talking a 22-year-old male here.

Granted, I've been buying "feminine hygiene" supplies from the age of 13 and birth control since I was 18, so it takes a lot to faze me, but when he handed ME the box and the money to pay for said box, I asked what he was doing, and he said he was "too embarrassed" to buy that box of condoms.

We were in Indianapolis, in a gigantic Wal-Mart, in a place where we knew no one and no one knew us. It would have been a little different if we had been in his hometown, which is much smaller and much less anonymous than my bedroom-community exurb, but we were in the middle of a fairly large city where, again, NO ONE KNEW US. Or cared what we were buying.

Embarrassed, my Aunt Fanny!

It would be grossly unprofessional for any cashier or pharmacist to even give you a Dirty Look over condoms or any similar product.  The guy was either too bloody lazy or just plain selfish.

[Tabris]

I think there are two sides to the issue here.

No one wants to return to the days when single mothers were stigmatized as being of loose morals or unfit parents, and the children of single mothers were slighted and viewed as being defective.

In order to make those strides, where being a single mother or the child of a single mother is not a source of lifelong shame, American society has had to say that a mother alone can do **as good a job as a woman with a partner.**  And many women do--no doubt about it. It's harder, but it can definitely be done, as many stories in this thread have shown.

But if you're a man, and you're being given the message that a woman alone can raise children as well as a woman with a man, well then what contribution do you see yourself as making to the child's upbringing?

And if you're a man in a bad relationship and you see the grass might be greener elsewhere, and you aren't very mature or maybe never stuck with anything before, and you see all around you the media and scientific studies telling you that the children of single mothers are going to do just fine, and that your child's mother will do just fine without you...  Well, why stick around? They don't "need" you, so there's no sense of responsibility. Stay if you want, and go if you want. And if you go, take your money with you because you're immature and never stuck with anything before anyhow, and studies say the kid will be fine, and...

I don't think there's an easy solution here. No one wants to stigmatize single moms or their children, but on the other hand, the flip side of that is a message that the mother's partner is not an important factor, with the result that the only ones who stick around are going to be the ones who either want to or have a deep sense of responsibility for their children and are willing to make "unnecessary" sacrifices. 

[Cellardoor14]

Embarrassed, my Aunt Fanny!

It would be grossly unprofessional for any cashier or pharmacist to even give you a Dirty Look over condoms or any similar product.  The guy was either too bloody lazy or just plain selfish.

Actually it happened to Mr Cellardoor the FIRST time he had to buy them.

Granted it was in South Africa.  Apparently, the female cashier congratulated him on being responsible "unlike other young men", she then called out to the other cashier and told her.  Then the other cashier congratulated him as well. He says he was trying to duck behind the checkout at the point, and thanking god there was no one else in the store.

Mr Cellardoor believes if he can by a package of condoms after that
(and he did/does as he feels birth control should be the responsible of both partners) than ANYONE can.

[Brentwood]

Granted, I've been buying "feminine hygiene" supplies from the age of 13 and birth control since I was 18, so it takes a lot to faze me, but when he handed ME the box and the money to pay for said box, I asked what he was doing, and he said he was "too embarrassed" to buy that box of condoms.

I think any man who is "too embarrassed" to buy condoms is not mature enough to be in a sexual relationship.

[Sandi Papaya]

Granted, I've been buying "feminine hygiene" supplies from the age of 13 and birth control since I was 18, so it takes a lot to faze me, but when he handed ME the box and the money to pay for said box, I asked what he was doing, and he said he was "too embarrassed" to buy that box of condoms.

I think any man who is "too embarrassed" to buy condoms is not mature enough to be in a sexual relationship.

I second that. He's going to be 24 this year, but by my definition he's still not a "man." We broke up a year ago today, and I don't think I could be happier. I thought I was going to be miserable today, but I was wrong. I'm just miserably sick.

He got manipulated into marriage 7 months after we broke up and since his new, 20-year-old wife "can't use" birth control, apparently she's now pregnant (and they've never heard of any other methods besides the Pill). He's gotten mono from her, when he never got so much as a cold from me (granted, this was a fairly long-distance relationship, but still, there was a lot of potential there to get sick since we did see each other a few times).

I know she's using him because she ostensibly moved to where he is to get married, get a job and then start a family but she never bothered with the get a job part, and whined when he wouldn't buy her a car she wanted. I just pity the poor idiot. Saddled with responsibilities he claims he didn't want for "another few years" at 24, and divorce will never be an option because she will nag him to death if he even thinks it.

Poor little fool. He ended up marrying his mother after all. I'm way better off without him.

[Venus193]

I think any man who is "too embarrassed" to buy condoms is not mature enough to be in a sexual relationship.

I third that.

[Sandi Papaya]

Believe me, I saw that right off the bat, once we stopped talking and started acting on that level of commitment.

I'm just glad I'm not the one who will end up paying for his short-sightedness.