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Author Topic: Worst bouquet toss idea ever!!  (Read 11139 times)

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kherbert05

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Re: Worst bouquet toss idea ever!!
« Reply #15 on: June 06, 2016, 05:11:54 PM »
I would have walked out and never spoken to this person again - regardless of my marital status. Actually since I doubt this is a one off, I probably would have cut this person from my life long ago.
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mime

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Re: Worst bouquet toss idea ever!!
« Reply #16 on: June 06, 2016, 05:34:18 PM »
It's less the prayer aspect of it than pulling each woman up individually to announce that you think something is wrong with her so you're praying for God to fix it.

I didn't read that as the Bride saying there was anything wrong with the young women. She prayed with them.

Definitely a "know your audience" thing.

Yeah, that's how I read it, too.

Count me in as another person who thinks the whole "let's single out the unmarried people" idea should just die, whether it is for prayer or to catch a bouquet.

Well it is awfully presumptuous of the bride to assume that a) none of them were seeing someone; b) were straight; and c) were all looking for a guy at all. Or that her prayers work better than theirs.

Yes, it can absolutely be presumptuous if she doesn't know her audience. Just like it would be presumptuous to think they'd all enjoy being part of the bouquet-tossing.

At 100 people, my wedding was small enough that I knew 14 of my 15 single female guests (not counting the 2 widows) well enough. Seven of them would have very much liked the idea of praying together, while the other seven or probably eight would have kindly gone along with it, but maybe with an eyeroll. On the other hand, only three of them would have enjoyed being involved in a bouquet toss, but, again, they all would have gone along with it despite the fact that four of them in particular would have been very embarassed. I didn't do either.

I guess I'm saying that we don't have enough info to know if the bride really is being more presumptuous than any other bride who wants to toss her bouquet.



KenveeB

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Re: Worst bouquet toss idea ever!!
« Reply #17 on: June 06, 2016, 05:54:08 PM »
It's less the prayer aspect of it than pulling each woman up individually to announce that you think something is wrong with her so you're praying for God to fix it.

I didn't read that as the Bride saying there was anything wrong with the young women. She prayed with them.

Definitely a "know your audience" thing.

But she prayed with them in hopes that they would no longer be single. They are single now, she wants to pray to help change that situation, so she's saying that there's something wrong with them that needs to be fixed. You don't pray to change a situation that you're happy with.

If you're really going to go this route, shouldn't you also call out your friends in bad marriages, or with husbands you don't approve of, so you can pray that they find the man God really intended for them? If that sounds too judgmental, then so is calling out your single friends to say they need to fix that.

LadyL

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Re: Worst bouquet toss idea ever!!
« Reply #18 on: June 06, 2016, 06:22:04 PM »

If you're really going to go this route, shouldn't you also call out your friends in bad marriages, or with husbands you don't approve of, so you can pray that they find the man God really intended for them? If that sounds too judgmental, then so is calling out your single friends to say they need to fix that.

I attended a wedding ceremony where the officiant had everyone pray for the HC, that they would not ever get divorced and bring themselves shame and suffering by doing so. It was...not the kind of sentiment I'm accustomed to in a religious ceremony. I may have left nail prints in LordL's hand when I heard that one, in fact. But apparently this denomination is a bit more "fire and brimstone" as the congregation didn't seem to react to that prayer the same way I did.

I think I posted about that wedding here actually and people said (and I agreed) that expressing their genuine religious beliefs is not rude, even if it may make some guests uncomfortable.

KenveeB

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Re: Worst bouquet toss idea ever!!
« Reply #19 on: June 06, 2016, 06:44:57 PM »

If you're really going to go this route, shouldn't you also call out your friends in bad marriages, or with husbands you don't approve of, so you can pray that they find the man God really intended for them? If that sounds too judgmental, then so is calling out your single friends to say they need to fix that.

I attended a wedding ceremony where the officiant had everyone pray for the HC, that they would not ever get divorced and bring themselves shame and suffering by doing so. It was...not the kind of sentiment I'm accustomed to in a religious ceremony. I may have left nail prints in LordL's hand when I heard that one, in fact. But apparently this denomination is a bit more "fire and brimstone" as the congregation didn't seem to react to that prayer the same way I did.

I think I posted about that wedding here actually and people said (and I agreed) that expressing their genuine religious beliefs is not rude, even if it may make some guests uncomfortable.

But isn't directing it at someone else different than just expressing your own beliefs? In your example, that prayer was directed towards the HC personally. They presumably chose it, or at least the officiant, so while I might feel uncomfortable about the message, I'd sit quietly and respectfully like in any other prayer. If they brought me into the prayer and started praying about how I need to change my life, then that would be very offensive and would permanently affect my relationship with the couple. (I still wouldn't disrupt the service, but you'd better believe I'd walk out as soon as it was over.)

If the wedding was very small and the only guests were members of your same church whom you were positive would be happy about the message, then I suppose it would work. But that would be a very, very rare situation. Once you start bringing in any other family who aren't part of that group, then you're going to start offending people.

TootsNYC

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Re: Worst bouquet toss idea ever!!
« Reply #20 on: June 06, 2016, 06:59:03 PM »
It's less the prayer aspect of it than pulling each woman up individually to announce that you think something is wrong with her so you're praying for God to fix it.

It's not so much that there's something wrong with you. The key word is "wait"--i.e., to not have sex until you're married.

And the problem w/ comparing this to saying grace at the table is that it's so very personal; you can't just sit there quietly while other people worship. Each woman is asked to directly and personally participate.

I'd stay in my seat, and I'd be avoiding those relatives pretty much. (and I did pretty  much wait!)

EllenS

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Re: Worst bouquet toss idea ever!!
« Reply #21 on: June 06, 2016, 08:24:13 PM »
I have a different perspective on this, because in the religious communities I've been involved with as an adult, the concept of "waiting on God's choice" translates to "don't be in such a hurry to seek marriage. There is a purpose for your life, and marriage may or may not be a part of it. So don't settle or compromise who you are."

That's actually quite a prevalent attitude in certain contemporary groups. So, since the traditional bouquet toss is all about who's next to marry, and participation implies that you are trying to grab that "lucky" talisman, this struck me as a reversal of the trope.

But without knowing what religious subculture the bride was in, it's impossible to tell which set of assumptions being projected here is correct.

If nobody was badgered to participate, I can't see how it was rude, regardless. If the bride was able to address each participant by name, that says to me that they had some context and prior knowledge of each other's lives.

These were her wedding guests, not strangers on the street.

NFPwife

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Re: Worst bouquet toss idea ever!!
« Reply #22 on: June 06, 2016, 08:38:06 PM »
I have a different perspective on this, because in the religious communities I've been involved with as an adult, the concept of "waiting on God's choice" translates to "don't be in such a hurry to seek marriage. There is a purpose for your life, and marriage may or may not be a part of it. So don't settle or compromise who you are."

That's actually quite a prevalent attitude in certain contemporary groups. So, since the traditional bouquet toss is all about who's next to marry, and participation implies that you are trying to grab that "lucky" talisman, this struck me as a reversal of the trope.

But without knowing what religious subculture the bride was in, it's impossible to tell which set of assumptions being projected here is correct.

If nobody was badgered to participate, I can't see how it was rude, regardless. If the bride was able to address each participant by name, that says to me that they had some context and prior knowledge of each other's lives.

These were her wedding guests, not strangers on the street.

Good point about the "lucky talisman" -- that could be offensive in some religious cultures. My friend's "waiting on God" would include both the "don't be in a hurry for marriage" as well as remaining chaste.

rose red

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Re: Worst bouquet toss idea ever!!
« Reply #23 on: June 06, 2016, 09:11:18 PM »
I have a different perspective on this, because in the religious communities I've been involved with as an adult, the concept of "waiting on God's choice" translates to "don't be in such a hurry to seek marriage. There is a purpose for your life, and marriage may or may not be a part of it. So don't settle or compromise who you are."

That's actually quite a prevalent attitude in certain contemporary groups. So, since the traditional bouquet toss is all about who's next to marry, and participation implies that you are trying to grab that "lucky" talisman, this struck me as a reversal of the trope.

But without knowing what religious subculture the bride was in, it's impossible to tell which set of assumptions being projected here is correct.

If nobody was badgered to participate, I can't see how it was rude, regardless. If the bride was able to address each participant by name, that says to me that they had some context and prior knowledge of each other's lives.

These were her wedding guests, not strangers on the street.

Good point about the "lucky talisman" -- that could be offensive in some religious cultures. My friend's "waiting on God" would include both the "don't be in a hurry for marriage" as well as remaining chaste.

It had also crossed my mind that "waiting" means don't settle; don't be desperate and get married just to marry.

TeamBhakta

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Re: Worst bouquet toss idea ever!!
« Reply #24 on: June 06, 2016, 09:19:28 PM »
Even though I'm a straight, monogamous, religious woman, I wouldn't have been able to refrain from adding "Yes, Deity, please do that for me. Just with one teeny, tiny correction, though: I'm not looking for a man. Well, I am, but I'm also looking for a woman who would be cool joining me & a man in holy matrimony, and open to the multiple romantic possibilities that living in a commune with 40 people may bring." This is why Evil Me has to sit on her hands & eat a piece of peppermint candy instead  >:D 

JadeAngel

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Re: Worst bouquet toss idea ever!!
« Reply #25 on: June 06, 2016, 10:44:19 PM »
A friend of mine wanted to distribute flowers to single female guests at the wedding with a small note attached wishing them something along the lines that 'they would one day be as happy as I am today'. I think her bridesmaids persuaded her to distribute the flowers but omit the notes.

I personally am not a fan of the bouquet toss - you're all dressed up nicely with heels, frock and hairdo and suddenly you're participating in a scrimmage on the dance floor which could see you hit by a flying elbow, knocked down or accidentally sat upon and I like the garter toss even less.

But I agree with all the other posters who said 'know your audience' after all you invited your guests here to celebrate with them, not to publicly humiliate them so hand out the flowers and let them sort out their own perfect man - or woman - or cheesecake - or none of the above  :)

Hmmmmm

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Re: Worst bouquet toss idea ever!!
« Reply #26 on: June 07, 2016, 08:51:04 AM »
I have a different perspective on this, because in the religious communities I've been involved with as an adult, the concept of "waiting on God's choice" translates to "don't be in such a hurry to seek marriage. There is a purpose for your life, and marriage may or may not be a part of it. So don't settle or compromise who you are."

That's actually quite a prevalent attitude in certain contemporary groups. So, since the traditional bouquet toss is all about who's next to marry, and participation implies that you are trying to grab that "lucky" talisman, this struck me as a reversal of the trope.

But without knowing what religious subculture the bride was in, it's impossible to tell which set of assumptions being projected here is correct.

If nobody was badgered to participate, I can't see how it was rude, regardless. If the bride was able to address each participant by name, that says to me that they had some context and prior knowledge of each other's lives.

These were her wedding guests, not strangers on the street.

Good point about the "lucky talisman" -- that could be offensive in some religious cultures. My friend's "waiting on God" would include both the "don't be in a hurry for marriage" as well as remaining chaste.

It had also crossed my mind that "waiting" means don't settle; don't be desperate and get married just to marry.

Yes, this.  I have a cousin who, along with her DH, leads an adults group within a more progressive church, though still a mainstream religion. A big tennant of their counseling is to not feel that you need to marry to be happy and to not feel pressured by society to marriage and make a bad choice. So I read the "waiting" comment to imply wait for the right one, not for anyone and the bride was saying "be happy with your life  but don't rush over here to catch a bouquet in the hopes you're the next bride."

But I do now understand why others are having such a different reaction to reading one line about a wedding and a bride's activity. It's pretty obvious that the woman who was there and reported the incident wasn't offended by what happened. So I was surprised about the vehement dislike voiced by so many.

gellchom

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Re: Worst bouquet toss idea ever!!
« Reply #27 on: June 07, 2016, 10:24:02 AM »
I agree with EllenS and the others who say that it depends on the beliefs and customs of the HC, their families, and their community.

And absolutely there should be no requirement or pressure to participate, even for members of that community.

I myself would find it distasteful, maybe even outright repellent.  But I also find other things that other people's traditions hold dear off-putting too, including sex-segregated seating, giving away the bride, and reading passages about how the wife is to submit to the husband.  And to a lesser extent bouquet tosses and throwing rice.  But it's not rude or wrong of them to do things at their own wedding that their culture dictates just because it clashes with my sensibilities.  In other words, while the practice itself may reflect values I find offensive, their doing it just because I am there too isn't offensive. 

So I disagree with the posters that say that if there are any guests there who disagree with or even are offended by a practice, then it shouldn't be done (what would that mean about atheist guests at a religious wedding?), even if they need not participate.  A wedding is not a democracy or a lowest common denominator event.  If something like this suits the HC and their families, well, we are guests who are entitled to our opinions, but that doesn't mean they need to choose between changing their customs (or having them judged) and inviting their "outsider" friends. 

Chickadee

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Re: Worst bouquet toss idea ever!!
« Reply #28 on: June 07, 2016, 11:23:39 AM »
It's less the prayer aspect of it than pulling each woman up individually to announce that you think something is wrong with her so you're praying for God to fix it.

I didn't read that as the Bride saying there was anything wrong with the young women. She prayed with them.

Definitely a "know your audience" thing.

But she prayed with them in hopes that they would no longer be single. They are single now, she wants to pray to help change that situation, so she's saying that there's something wrong with them that needs to be fixed. You don't pray to change a situation that you're happy with.

If you're really going to go this route, shouldn't you also call out your friends in bad marriages, or with husbands you don't approve of, so you can pray that they find the man God really intended for them? If that sounds too judgmental, then so is calling out your single friends to say they need to fix that.

I didn't interpret her prayer as hoping the single women will not be single much longer. Like many other posters here, I took it as her praying with each woman for God  to help her be patient and wait for the right man to enter her life instead of being in a hurry to marry.

gellchom

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Re: Worst bouquet toss idea ever!!
« Reply #29 on: June 07, 2016, 12:12:26 PM »
It's less the prayer aspect of it than pulling each woman up individually to announce that you think something is wrong with her so you're praying for God to fix it.

I didn't read that as the Bride saying there was anything wrong with the young women. She prayed with them.

Definitely a "know your audience" thing.

But she prayed with them in hopes that they would no longer be single. They are single now, she wants to pray to help change that situation, so she's saying that there's something wrong with them that needs to be fixed. You don't pray to change a situation that you're happy with.

If you're really going to go this route, shouldn't you also call out your friends in bad marriages, or with husbands you don't approve of, so you can pray that they find the man God really intended for them? If that sounds too judgmental, then so is calling out your single friends to say they need to fix that.

I didn't interpret her prayer as hoping the single women will not be single much longer. Like many other posters here, I took it as her praying with each woman for God  to help her be patient and wait for the right man to enter her life instead of being in a hurry to marry.

And even if the basis for the custom is the assumption that each young woman is hoping for a husband, although many of us find that not only inaccurate but insulting, perhaps in their community they do not.  Some forbid intermarriage, some have multiple marriage, some don't recognize divorce, some insist on male supremacy, and so on. If a culture or religion holds such a view, and you simply cannot stand to be around it, then politely decline invitations to their rituals and life cycle events (without saying that that is the reason).  But if you do choose to attend, be polite and keep your opinions to yourself; they aren't being rude to do it their way, nor are they required to justify it to our satisfaction or to be consistent in our eyes (by, e.g., also calling out those in bad marriages)


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