News: IT'S THE 2ND ANNUAL GUATEMALA LIBRARY PROJECT BOOK DRIVE!    LOOKING FOR DONATIONS OF SCIENCE BOOKS THIS YEAR.    Check it out in the "Extending the Hand of Kindness" folder or here: http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=139832.msg3372084#msg3372084   

  • November 20, 2017, 07:03:36 PM

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: Fancy a Beer?  (Read 6090 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

blarg314

  • Member
  • Posts: 9227
Re: Fancy a Beer?
« Reply #15 on: August 16, 2016, 07:03:21 PM »

Ok I snipped the Quote tree, because I can't get my brain around this. They literally showered in less than 2 minutes?  I don't see how you can get your entire body wet, soaped, and rinsed in that time. Not including hair washing? How is this possible?

Out of curiosity, I just timed my morning shower. 45 seconds under the water, including washing hair and soap on the parts that need soap.  I have very short hair (no conditioner needed), and we have good water pressure and a hand-held shower head, which makes rinsing fast. In summer, I usually take a 15 second shower after getting home, to cool of and rinse off the sweat.

But on the main topic, it sounds like you've just got a boor for a boarder. So I wouldn't hesitate to be very clear with him about things like where to leave the water glass. In the future, a quick list of basic rules/procedures would be fine - you might say that alcohol is not part of the room and board, but that the boarder is welcome to bring their own.



greencat

  • Member
  • Posts: 3899
  • Trap...Neuter...What was that third thing again?
Re: Fancy a Beer?
« Reply #16 on: August 16, 2016, 07:49:55 PM »
"Cleaning up after yourself is not optional.  Wash any dish you use, including your ashtrays, and do not leave your things on the floor.  If you want beer to be in the fridge, you need to buy yourself beer - stop asking for it.  It isn't included in your board."

Maude

  • Member
  • Posts: 217
Re: Fancy a Beer?
« Reply #17 on: August 17, 2016, 04:58:49 AM »
Just as well you don't smoke, or he would be reaching for those
on his way out the door.

Margo

  • Member
  • Posts: 2153
Re: Fancy a Beer?
« Reply #18 on: August 17, 2016, 05:17:28 AM »


So our latest student arrived a few days ago - a 36-year-old cartographer from the other side of Turkey, around a 15-hour drive away
[...]
I don't think trying to have a conversation with him about it is the answer as we have language barriers on both sides, and I would be worried about leaving him with the impression that he wasn't welcome, or that we weren't being hospitable, or that I was telling him bluntly to stop drinking the beer! But I also think he must know how much it costs and that drinking several bottles every evening soon mounts up....

Do you know the cost of beer on the other side of Turkey, where he's from? If not, then why assume he knows the cost of your beer if he hasn't bought any yet? If beer in general or the brand he buys in particular is significantly cheaper in his home region, then he may think he knows how much it costs and be severely underestimating (and once he visits the store, he may be horrified that he's been taking advantage of your generosity to that degree). Or perhaps he has a decent estimate of the cost, but it's not a prohibitive cost for him and your generous offer to help himself has led him to believe it's not for you, either. He might even intend to pick up the next supply of beer or contribute to the cost knowing it's an "extra" you're sharing out of your own generosity, but since he's only been here a few days and you have had (apparently) ample beer, it wouldn't have come up yet.

not that it makes his beahviour any more polite, but another factor may be that he ses it as cheap *for you*
In my experience, local beer is pretty cheap in Turkey, compared to prices in much of Europe, and he may assume that as non-Turks you are better off than him/his mates.

I think you would be absolutely fine for future lodgers to have a brief set of wioteen riles / guidance - and to limit what they can help themselves to - for instnace, you could make it clear that they are free to help themselves to water, fruit juice, fruit, bread and snacks (maybe even have a separate shelf or cupboard where you keep those types of things), and that they are required to clear up after themselves and to pay for any breakages.

If you want them to be able to have beer then you could consider an honesty box system - as kthem to put 3 YTL (or whatever is appropriate) into the box if they take a beer. That way, the choice s theirs and if they do drink all your beer you should be left with enough cash to replace it!

Mayadoz

  • Member
  • Posts: 218
  • Nobody is in charge of my happiness except me.
Re: Fancy a Beer?
« Reply #19 on: August 17, 2016, 05:37:35 AM »
Ooh, I like the idea of writing out some 'house rules' - thank you guys, that's a great plan.
We did have to fill out some details for the academy to give students in advance - about ourselves, our home, domestic situation etc - and that did include some guidelines, but of course you don't know whether the student bothers to read it.

Also, if it's written in simple English, working out what it says in the student's own language could help with his/her studies.
(I could probably translate into basic Turkish, but so far we've also had people whose native tongues include Arabic, Dutch, German, Georgian and Russian.)

Margo, you may be right about him thinking it is 'cheap for us'. Alcohol is generally agreed to be expensive in Turkey (for local people) no matter where you are; in areas where it is cheaper, average wages there are generally lower so proportionately it is still costly. We live in between a 'working' Turkish town and a fairly popular holiday resort, so prices vary wildly depending on where you go.

But yes, as westerners, we are perceived to be well-off, so that's probably it.

As far as the broken glasses go, it wasn't him that broke them, it was us. He puts them right on the edge of the sink, where we're not expecting them to be....and glass is transparent....too easy to knock as you turn. After another near-miss this morning I will be bringing this subject up again tonight.

Life is short. Buy the shoes. Drink the wine. Order the dessert.

Carotte

  • Member
  • Posts: 1744
Re: Fancy a Beer?
« Reply #20 on: August 17, 2016, 08:45:17 AM »
What a boor!
Before the post scarcity update I was entertaining the idea that maybe he'd go and buy a case for the house or at least a couple bottles of his own, but he's going so far as not bringing them and instead going to a bar (making sure OP and husband would never get to drink his beers)!


A page of written rules would be a good idea to leave in the guest room for the next times, you can add some local information too, make it a welcome booklet with info on transport, local shops, restaurants and bars,...
Laying out was is provided or not is a good idea like a PP said, and I like the idea of a designated place to put the food/stuff you're ok with being used so that you don't end up with empty cupboard without notice.

Mayadoz

  • Member
  • Posts: 218
  • Nobody is in charge of my happiness except me.
Re: Fancy a Beer?
« Reply #21 on: August 18, 2016, 05:54:41 AM »
It gets better!

Last night, a couple of friends went into the same bar he was in. They had very kindly invited us all to a barbecue last weekend, including Student.
They recognised each other so had a couple of drinks together.

They all decided to leave at the same time. Student apparently paid their bill as well as his own as a thank you for including him in the event, which is undoubtedly a very nice thing to do and shows he is not insensitive to people's hospitality. One of the couple messaged me on Facebook this morning to say they'd seen him, and what he'd done, and how lovely it was of him. (Incidentally he also ate out last night but didn't bother to let us know his plans so I made dinner for all four of us....had I known there would be just me, DH and DD, I would have catered differently.)

I can't help feeling a litle miffed, especially as a few evenings ago, after a particularly busy and stressful day, we decided to eat at a place in the village rather than me struggling to find time to cook a meal that evening. As our agreement with the academy is to provide breakfast and dinner, naturally we felt we should pay. Student happily let us pick up the whole bill - yes, including his drinks.

I'm at the stage where I just want him to leave. Eight more nights to go, or possibly nine; his course finishes a week tomorrow, but he hasn't decided yet whether he will set off home straight away or stay with us another night and leave on the Saturday. (Unfortunately, we previously indicated we were happy to have him stay until then so I can't do anything about that.)
Life is short. Buy the shoes. Drink the wine. Order the dessert.

blarg314

  • Member
  • Posts: 9227
Re: Fancy a Beer?
« Reply #22 on: August 18, 2016, 07:24:00 PM »

I have the feeling that your boarder sees you as employees, rather than friends or colleagues or temporary family. So you're there to clean up after him and feed him, but there's no concept of helping out, or reciprocating any extra hospitality, because you're just doing your job.

If you go out for dinner again, you can leave him food in the fridge, and a note.

Mayadoz

  • Member
  • Posts: 218
  • Nobody is in charge of my happiness except me.
Re: Fancy a Beer?
« Reply #23 on: August 19, 2016, 06:58:15 AM »
I think DH hit the nail on the head this morning. We'd noticed that Student is leaving for the academy later and later in the mornings - sometimes not until he's actually supposed to be there. DH said he thought Student was getting bored with the course but was quite enjoying being on holiday.

That's how he sees it, in my view. He's on a sort of holiday. And therefore doesn't intend to lift a finger. This morning he spilled a cup of tea all over the outside table and left it for me to clear up, along with his breakfast things. (I didn't notice until after he'd left as I was outside hanging up washing.) I fee like the 24/7 hired help.  :(

We do get to feedback to the academy about how we found a student - it's useful in case the person comes back again, helps the academy refine their placement process and all kinds of other things. It also should help them help us - I know, for example, that as relatively new hosts we still tend to treat students more as guests than one of the family. (The student also gets to feed back about us.)

In the meantime, I have started my list of house rules for the future. In fact, I've done two - one that will be the version given to the student and the other that is most definitely not eHell-approved but which Evil Maya felt would be very therapeutic to write down....  >:D
« Last Edit: August 20, 2016, 07:19:46 AM by Mayadoz »
Life is short. Buy the shoes. Drink the wine. Order the dessert.

Morticia

  • Member
  • Posts: 1747
    • Stepmonster's Travels
Re: Fancy a Beer?
« Reply #24 on: August 19, 2016, 08:03:10 AM »
I think DH hit the nail on the head this morning. We'd noticed that Student is leaving for the academy later and later in the mornings - sometimes not until he's actually supposed to be there. DH said he thought Student was getting bored with the course but was quite enjoying being on holiday.

That's how he sees it, in my view. He's on a sort of holiday. And therefore doesn't intend to lift a finger. This morning he spilled a cup of tea all over the outside table and left it for me to clear up, along with his breakfast things. (I didn't notice until after he'd left as I was outside hanging up washing.) I fee like the 24/7 hired help.  :(

We do get to feedback to the academy about how we found a student - it's useful in case the person comes back again, helps the academy refine their placement process and all kinds of other things. It also should help them help us - I know, for example, that as relatively new hosts we still tend to treat students more as guests than one of the family. (The student also gets to feed back about us.)

In the meantime, I have started my list of house rules for the future. In fact, I've done two - one that will be the version given to the student and the other that is most definitely eHell-approved but which Evil Maya felt would be very therapeutic to write down....  >:D

... and share with us, of course.
Now our mom says she's changed her mind about the devil's brood, they may be evil so she thinks, but at least they're never rude...
                                        -- Big Rude Jake

My travel blog: http://www.stepmonster.ca

Sara Crewe

  • Member
  • Posts: 2928
Re: Fancy a Beer?
« Reply #25 on: August 20, 2016, 05:43:45 AM »
It sounds to me as though part of the problem is that you and he have different views of his position in the house.  If I stay at a bed and breakfast or hotel, I don't clear plates or clean or make my bed - that's the job of the owners/staff.  Equally, I don't buy food to replace what I eat or drink - that's included in the room rate.

It think it might be a good idea to check what the academy is telling people because for someone staying in a hotel or bed and breakfast, his behaviour sounds normal, including passing dirty ashtrays to you to clean.

It appears that isn't even close to what you think the agreement is and I think that's the first thing that needs to be clarified.  I think you feel like the 24/7 hired help because as far as he is concerned, that's exactly what the academy have hired you to be. 




Carotte

  • Member
  • Posts: 1744
Re: Fancy a Beer?
« Reply #26 on: August 20, 2016, 06:59:49 AM »
It appears that isn't even close to what you think the agreement is and I think that's the first thing that needs to be clarified.  I think you feel like the 24/7 hired help because as far as he is concerned, that's exactly what the academy have hired you to be.

I think that's wise, try and see where the faulty communication is.

We don't have the informations for this specific situation yet but usually this is not the deal with this kind of boarding, so I quite think it's this lodger either misguided undertsnading, whishfull thinking or entitlement.
I would never think this was a hotel setting with hired help, but a nice way to have cheaper room and in this case half board, stay with locals in a friendly setting and not a business one.

Mayadoz

  • Member
  • Posts: 218
  • Nobody is in charge of my happiness except me.
Re: Fancy a Beer?
« Reply #27 on: August 20, 2016, 07:14:13 AM »
I absolutely agree with you Sara, that's what I'd expect in a B&B or hotel too.

But the deal with host families is that students live in an English family environment, experiencing the home atmosphere and fitting into/being part of their routines. It's definitely not supposed to be some kind of guesthouse arrangement. As far as I'm aware, that's communicated by the academy, and we've had students who have been a delight and settled exactly as we'd expect them to...but in this case, clearly not!

However, it's all academic now as Student left a couple of hours ago to go back to his home town, some 15 hours' drive away. He called the academy and told them, as he did us, that he'd had a call from work saying some crisis had arisen that meant he was needed back there on Monday.

Which may well be true, except that I had a word with him this morning after he didn't bother coming home at all last night. I was irritated when he didn't show for dinner, but that's happened before; we went to bed leaving our gate unlocked and outside lights all on as we assumed he'd be back after his evening out.

Got up to walk the dog this morning and it was clear he hadn't come back. We had no idea where he was or if he was ok, and no phone number to call him. DH took the dog out and we agreed to call the academy on his return if there was no sign of him.

Student returned at around 8.30am and I said he needed to let us know if he was going to be out all night so that we knew he was ok. I said that obviously he was an adult and could do as he pleased, but it would be polite to make us aware of his plans. He told me where he'd stayed and said there was no internet and he didn't have our number.... I pointed out that he could have telephoned the academy and they could have passed on a message.

He disappeared into his room for a few hours - probably to get some sleep - and then emerged to say he'd had a call from his employers and had to leave.

Incidentally, I wasn't angry or rude when I spoke to him; I was very calm. And things were otherwise fine, in spite of the other irritations. DH said he had the impression Student wasn't enjoying his course very much and we also know he was finding it a challenge living with our dog; Student was also a little scared of him because he's quite big (a German Shepherd) even though he's a total softie. Our dog lives outside but comes onto the terrace for cuddles and food and general hanging out. Most Turks don't "do" pets and don't understand the relationship we westerners generally have with our animals, and although anyone who comes to us knows in advance that we have animals, they sometimes find it hard to cope with. So maybe Student just decided he'd had enough and wanted to go home.

I don't know the true story, and I've made the academy aware of what happened this morning to cover our own backs. To be honest I'm just glad he's gone, it wasn't a good experience. I'm looking forward to an unexpected break with just me, DH and DD now - it feels like a long time since we could enjoy our own space.
Life is short. Buy the shoes. Drink the wine. Order the dessert.

camlan

  • Member
  • Posts: 9273
Re: Fancy a Beer?
« Reply #28 on: August 20, 2016, 07:21:37 AM »
I am wondering if there aren't some cultural differences coming into play here, as well. Full disclosure--one of my sisters-in-law is Turkish, and she and my brother live in Turkey.

According to what I've seen, and what DSIL tells me, and what other Turkish women have said, many Turkish men (not all, but many) feel that anything to do with the kitchen and cleaning is women's work. My SIL's brother had never cooked a meal for himself, until he was in his late 20s, still living at home, and his parents left him at home for a week to go and visit with my brother and DSIL. He ended up eating a lot of meals out, because he simply does not know how to cook. And the kitchen was a mess when his parents got back, because he saw no need to clean up, even though they have a dishwasher.

The American husband of a Turkish friend nearly caused a divorce the first time the couple ate at my friend's sister's house. He picked up his plates and utensils after the meal was over, and carried them into the kitchen. The sister was astounded--this big, tough, US Army guy was doing housework! Well, if he could, so could her own husband! The husband was not thrilled with this idea.

I'm not saying all Turkish men refuse to enter the kitchen--my SIL's father makes his own rose petal jelly from his own rose bushes--but I wouldn't be surprised if this boarder simply hasn't thought that maybe he should be picking up after himself.

I see it is a moot point--the guy has gone home. But it is a thought for the future--spell out expectations clearly, so that the cultural differences can be addressed.
Nothing is impossible, the word itself says, “I’m possible!” –Audrey Hepburn


rose red

  • Member
  • Posts: 9545
Re: Fancy a Beer?
« Reply #29 on: August 20, 2016, 09:30:08 AM »
^ Thank you for your post. I was wondering the same thing but didn't know how to put my thoughts to paper (or internet).

I'm also wondering how old the students usually are. If they are usually young, they still have the mindset that adults are authority figures and think nothing of following rules and cleaning up, asking permission, etc. This guy is an adult and think differently. Yes, adults should treat their hosts with courtesy and respect, but this is also a paying situation which may be why he's treating this like a hotel, like others said.

Well whatever the reason, he's gone and you don't have to bother about him anymore....except for survey ;)