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Author Topic: "Etiquette says you will...." Update # 26  (Read 9003 times)

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Syfygeek

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"Etiquette says you will...." Update # 26
« on: August 22, 2016, 11:51:30 AM »
Had a visit this weekend with some relatives whose son is getting married. And they are going broke paying for things because the bride, and her family keep adding expenses to the groom's family and when questioned, they invoke "etiquette says.."

The MOG was telling me she received a bill for $500 for 1/2 the flowers for the luncheon centerpieces, plus a separate bill of $400 for the brides bouquet. When I asked why she was paying that, she said the bride said the groom's family always pays for half the flowers, and the brides bouquet according to etiquette. I said I couldn't wait to see the centerpieces she paid half for. And then she told me if I hadn't RSVP'd already, I couldn't attend the luncheon/reception since it's already full. RSVP deadline is 2 weeks away and I was going to respond this week since I finally had my time off request approved.

And there's dress codes for the bridal showers- the lingerie shower- the guests were to wear red; the bridal shower the guests need to wear black; AND- the bachelorette is western themed and all guests are to "cowboy it up".

Has anyone heard of the grooms family paying for flowers? It's not anything I've run across before.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2016, 10:50:41 AM by Syfygeek »
That's my purse! I don't know you!

Hillia

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Re: "Etiquette says you will...."
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2016, 12:23:12 PM »
Yeah, no.  Your friend is being taken for a ride and used as an ATM. The luncheon is 'full' two weeks before the RSVP date?  Full of the bride's family and friends, I'm sure.  And those dress vices are ridiculous.  If the bride is behind this, she's certainly behaving like a Priscilla.

FWIW, here's an article on the traditional breakdown of  http://www.brides.com/blogs/aisle-say/2014/11/what-your-family-pays-for-wedding-planning.html .  According to this, the only flowers the groom's family is responsible for are corsages and boutonnieres

Hillia

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Re: "Etiquette says you will...."
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2016, 12:25:37 PM »
Yeah, no.  Your friend is being taken for a ride and used as an ATM. The luncheon is 'full' two weeks before the RSVP date?  Full of the bride's family and friends, I'm sure.  And those dress vices are ridiculous.  If the bride is behind this, she's certainly behaving like a Priscilla.

FWIW, here's an article on the traditional breakdown of  http://www.brides.com/blogs/aisle-say/2014/11/what-your-family-pays-for-wedding-planning.html .  According to this, the only flowers the groom's family is responsible for are corsages and boutonnieres

Eta:  I wouldn't pay a single one of those bills.  If they squawk, present them with a copy of Miss Manners or another bridal etiquette book marked at the appropriate spot.  But no way would I let myself be bullied into paying for a party for the bride's family.

Alicia

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Re: "Etiquette says you will...."
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2016, 12:26:40 PM »
Well yes they traditional  wedding flowers are paid for my the groom (or his family) but as they are paying they get the selection and thus get to pick the budget as well. Your friend needs to say no to any expense she has not been part of determining.

Thipu1

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Re: "Etiquette says you will...."
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2016, 12:30:12 PM »
There are some traditions in which the family of the groom pays for the Wedding flowers, the rehearsal dinner and any alcohol served during the festivities.  However, $400 for a bouquet and $500 for half the flowers at a luncheon seems insane. 

As to dress requirements for showers, this is a new one on me.  Guests often have to put up with enough expenditures as it is.  Getting a red outfit, a black outfit and western gear for one Wedding and assorted ancillary events is asking a bit too much. 

camlan

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Re: "Etiquette says you will...."
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2016, 12:59:14 PM »
Just how far back does the bride's family wish to go in following traditional etiquette?

Here's what my 1950 copy of Emily Post's Etiquette says on the matter:

"The first fact to remember is that all the expense of a wedding belongs to the bride's parents."

In fact, it was a major faux pas for the groom or his family to pay for anything, as this carried the presumption that the bride was a "kept woman." It would also "bring criticism upon [the bride's] family's inability to assume the wedding obligations that properly belong to them."

Post lists the following as the required expenses of the groom:

-engagement ring
-a wedding present to the bride (always something for "her personal adornment" like jewelry.
-the bachelor dinner if he has one
-possibly the bride's bouquet (Post points out this depends on local custom.)
the marriage license
-gift to best man and ushers, as well as their hotel expenses
-wedding ties and boutonnieres and gloves for the men in the wedding party, as well as his own boutonniere
-the wedding ring
-the clergyman's fee
-and of course, the moment they are married and off on their honeymoon, he starts to pay for everything.

Post does not mention a rehearsal dinner, because her advice is for everyone to go home and get a good night's sleep the evening before the wedding. So at least in her circles, rehearsal dinners didn't always happen.

Now, for your relatives. The bride's family can ask for money, but your family doesn't have to pay. They can very easily say that they weren't consulted in the planning, so they aren't able to pay that much. Or that it is not "traditional" in their family to pay.

But what I'd probably do in their shoes is state clearly whatever amount of money they are willing to spend on the wedding. "Here's $500, that's all we are contributing. Spend it however you like, but there's no more coming. " Or if they have already contributed, "We spent $XXX. It was our understanding that was our contribution. Sorry, it is not possible for us to contribute anything more." Or if they can't contribute anything, "You should have consulted with us beforehand. We are not able to contribute to the wedding costs. We would have told you this before you ordered the flowers, if you had asked us."

It is possible for family wedding traditions to clash. My cousin was happily planning the rehearsal dinner for her son's wedding, planning on about 40 people attending--the wedding party and immediate family, as is the tradition around here. Then the bride's family told her that their tradition, as they are from another part of the country, was that the entire guest list was invited--250 people! There was no way my cousin could afford this. And they came to a compromise where the bride's family paid for part of the rehearsal dinner, as they were the ones who wanted what was basically a second reception.

And did the bride's family invite more guests than they have room for? I would so RSVP "yes," just to find out how they are going to handle that little debacle.
Nothing is impossible, the word itself says, “I’m possible!” –Audrey Hepburn


Hmmmmm

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Re: "Etiquette says you will...."
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2016, 01:13:53 PM »
Camlan's list was the tradition I've always known around what the groom's family funded for the wedding. My inlaws ordered and paid for my bridal bouquet and all of the boutonnieres (using the same florist who gave strong guidance on selection based on the bridesmaids and other flowers I had chosen)

If by bridal luncheon you mean an event that occurs for the bridesmaids, bride, and a few relatives (as opposed to a luncheon held as a wedding reception), that is usually hosted by close relatives of the brides like cousins or aunts, but not either of the parents so would be very surprised by the groom's family paying for that. But there's lots of "new" traditions where the groom's family does pay for half or part of the wedding reception.

rose red

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Re: "Etiquette says you will...."
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2016, 01:52:04 PM »
Never mind the flowers. I'm stuck on the fact they put down a RSVP date that didn't mean anything.

gellchom

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Re: "Etiquette says you will...."
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2016, 03:16:16 PM »
What I find just hilarious is that this family pretends to be so scrupulous about etiquette as to apply a long-outdated (and as a matter of fact incorrect, certainly as to the "one half") custom about "who pays for what" -- but then they dictate guests' clothing colors and evidently intend to withdraw their invitations to people who do respond by the requested date.  I'd sure love to see what etiquette book they are using!

That said, although they are absolutely wrong, wrong, wrong (and obnoxious and greedy and a lot of other things), I would caution against taking the bait and fighting an etiquette battle.  This isn't about etiquette at all, and engaging in that argument (by refusing to pay on the grounds of the correct etiquette rules) plays right into the nonsense. 

Much better to state what (if anything) you are willing to pay for, or how much total you are willing to contribute to whatever plans they are going to make, and leave it at that, without any etiquette JADE-ing.  The real issues are much more important, and no matter how right they are, a parent can make real trouble for their child if they get into a fight or insult the other family.  An airtight etiquette defense won't help a bit.

Sigh.  And probably go buy a red and a black outfit, too, if you plan to attend those parties.  Totally rude and obnoxious to require, but it was their stupid mistake to make, so I'd comply; just think of it as a costume party.  Maybe you'll get lucky and not make the secret early time cutoff ....

(What jerks!  But I have to admit I hope we get updates ....)

lakey

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Re: "Etiquette says you will...."
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2016, 03:48:20 PM »
If I were told what color to wear to a shower, I wouldn't go. Brides and their families need to understand that there are limits to how much money people should have to spend because they are getting married.
Also, if I understand this correctly, are the same people are being invited to 2 showers?
Again, there are limits to what you should have to spend on someone's else's wedding.

kudeebee

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Re: "Etiquette says you will...."
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2016, 11:38:04 PM »
Wow!  The bride's family is invoking etiquette rules as it fits their needs.  If I was the groom's family, I would talk with my son and let him know how much money we were planning to spend on the wedding.  Then talk with the hc together and relay the same message.

As to the requirements for the showers, if I had clothing in those colors I might wear them. I would not be going out and buying clothes of a specific color to wear to a shower, clothes that I might only wear once. I would decline to attend.

How are the bride's family going to handle all of the rsvp's that still come in for the luncheon?  Call up the late responders and tell them sorry, you can't come?

Wonder what will happen when babies start coming and showers are planned? :o

Carotte

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Re: "Etiquette says you will...."
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2016, 07:15:26 AM »
And then she told me if I hadn't RSVP'd already, I couldn't attend the luncheon/reception since it's already full.

That's, that's even more flabergasting than having an A list and then a B or a C list and not being discreet with it!
That's making a first come- first served event! with the added benefit of still getting more gifts than guests (you can count on at least a few guests buying the gift before being told they can't come and sending it anyway).

OP's friend needs to put a stop to this quickly or they'll be steamrolled all their life by the inlaws come kids and kids' millestones.
They should have a sit down with the inlaws and both bride and groom and go over who pays for what, no jadeing, just the "that's not our budget"/"this won't be possible".

Syfygeek

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Re: "Etiquette says you will...."
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2016, 08:25:58 AM »
Never mind the flowers. I'm stuck on the fact they put down a RSVP date that didn't mean anything.

Thank you everyone for citing "real" etiquette practices. The MOG is just smiling sweetly and coming up with money. The Groom to Be is also ponying up cash to help out. The MOG told me the numbers have been filled up by the Bride's extended family. I was thinking that the bride is so sweet and easy going, this has to be her family that's doing this. Then I remembered http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=141142.msg3424750#msg3424750 Post # 10. The happy couple are the ones who crashed my vacation house and slept on the living room floor for 3 days. I got a thank you from the (now) groom to be, and a hug, but nothing from the (now) bride to be.

I don't know if I'm willing to drive 5 hours for this trainwreck happy event, but if I do, I will let Ehell know. And did I mention it's an early wedding, with a luncheon reception? Then everyone is expected to rest up for the bar crawl at 10 pm.
That's my purse! I don't know you!

gellchom

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Re: "Etiquette says you will...."
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2016, 08:43:21 AM »
What would they have done if everyone (or anyway more than the venue could hold) replied yes on the same day?  It's one thing to, say, take a risk of inviting 102 people to a venue that only holds 100.  But if they "filled up" with many responses still outstanding, they must have gone way over.  I am guessing that by the time the story got to us, at least third hand, it's not exactly what really happened -- it's just so bizarre.  But from all the other stories, if I had to believe anyone would do this, this family would spring to mind!

shortstuff

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Re: "Etiquette says you will...."
« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2016, 11:07:52 AM »
I'm pretty horrified by this, and feel bad for the poor groom's family!

I understand refusing might make waves, but my goodness, they should consider doing something, as they are more than a checkbook!