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Author Topic: Problem page letter - child free wedding drama  (Read 17866 times)

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TootsNYC

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Re: Problem page letter - child free wedding drama
« Reply #60 on: September 03, 2016, 09:17:42 PM »

Your very long post on the prior page used the term "insulting" multiple times. And while it started being about family members, it went on to talk about people who have both family and other relationships with your children. So that's where I was coming from. If you are truly only talking about close family members' weddings, that's a different story.

I understand why people would easily feel insulted on behalf of their children. I was trying to explain that, (in response to someone who said the only objection was because people were too lazy?cautious?whatever to get child care).

That doesn't mean that *I* would be insulted. Or even that I think it's particularly reasonable to get insulted. But I can understand it.

Our initial story is about close family relationships.

The other stories I told were about non-close family relationships, where leaving the children off the invitation was totally sensible, and not in the least hurtful.

   But I can see that someone might find it insulting ("your children aren't really part of my/your family" might be how they see it).

And *any* wedding is very different from a night out at the symphony. They're just not comparable.

HannahGrace

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Re: Problem page letter - child free wedding drama
« Reply #61 on: September 03, 2016, 09:22:04 PM »

Your very long post on the prior page used the term "insulting" multiple times. And while it started being about family members, it went on to talk about people who have both family and other relationships with your children. So that's where I was coming from. If you are truly only talking about close family members' weddings, that's a different story.

I understand why people would easily feel insulted on behalf of their children. I was trying to explain that, (in response to someone who said the only objection was because people were too lazy?cautious?whatever to get child care).

That doesn't mean that *I* would be insulted. Or even that I think it's particularly reasonable to get insulted. But I can understand it.

Our initial story is about close family relationships.

The other stories I told were about non-close family relationships, where leaving the children off the invitation was totally sensible, and not in the least hurtful.

   But I can see that someone might find it insulting ("your children aren't really part of my/your family" might be how they see it).

And *any* wedding is very different from a night out at the symphony. They're just not comparable.

In terms of legitimate reasons why children might not be invited, they are very comparable, actually.

Bales

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Re: Problem page letter - child free wedding drama
« Reply #62 on: September 03, 2016, 09:25:50 PM »
The thing about "inviting people important to us" is that not every single person that is important to you may get an invitation, whether because of space or budget limitations, age, logistics, and so on.  In other words, I would think that anyone invited to a wedding is absolutely important to the couple, but on the other hand, I would never think that someone not invited is automatically not important to them. 

Kids are not part of the social unit that must be included for all invitations, though they are part of the family unit.  There is a difference.  However, if inviting one, you should invite all (within the family unit.)

This is exactly how I feel, except expressed more artfully than I've ever managed to do. Thank you!

Thank you!  And in re-reading it, I feel I have to clarify one point due to my clumsy use of pronouns.  When I said "if inviting one, you should invite all," I was specifically referencing the kids.  I absolutely feel that children do not get an automatic invitation just because they are part of the family unit, but if you invite any of the children within the family unit, you should invite them all.  Though now that I think about it, even with that rule, there are exceptions I can think of, like if there is an age cut-off that is applied across the board.

VorFemme

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Re: Problem page letter - child free wedding drama
« Reply #63 on: September 03, 2016, 10:29:00 PM »
I know a family where both parents are music teachers and their children all grew up to teach music as well...the kids started music lessons before they were ten...

I think that they *might* have gotten upset if invited to a symphony and had been told that the children were specifically excluded from the event.  Possibly even very upset...

Although that would not be the case with other families in the social and family circle. 
Let sleeping dragons be.......morning breath......need I explain?

iridaceae

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Re: Problem page letter - child free wedding drama
« Reply #64 on: September 04, 2016, 02:54:59 AM »
What it boils down to for me is exactly what the groom said: I want you there celebrating my marriage. Focussing on us. Mom's letter conveys no interest in doing just that.
Nothing to see here.

turnip

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Re: Problem page letter - child free wedding drama
« Reply #65 on: September 04, 2016, 12:43:00 PM »

snipped

For all we know, the bride seriously dislikes her sister-in-law to be, and thinks the children are the worst-behaved monsters on the planet (not saying they are, but the bride could have reasons to dislike them). Should she be forced to have people she barely knows, or doesn't like, in her wedding party, or, in the case of the kids, as guests?

snipped


The bride is half of this equation.   The groom should invite his nieces and nephews if any other nieces and nephews are invited.   If not then he is going to create hard feelings with his family, including probably his parents who don't like seeing their grandchildren left out of a family event. 

This is the core of what I'm saying and I think the core of what other posters are saying.  Whatever the background of the relationship may be, the couple is signalling clear disapproval and that is going to have repercussions.  Reacting to that doesn't made someone a brat or a drama queen. 

gellchom

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Re: Problem page letter - child free wedding drama
« Reply #66 on: September 04, 2016, 01:55:59 PM »

snipped

For all we know, the bride seriously dislikes her sister-in-law to be, and thinks the children are the worst-behaved monsters on the planet (not saying they are, but the bride could have reasons to dislike them). Should she be forced to have people she barely knows, or doesn't like, in her wedding party, or, in the case of the kids, as guests?

snipped


The bride is half of this equation.   The groom should invite his nieces and nephews if any other nieces and nephews are invited.   If not then he is going to create hard feelings with his family, including probably his parents who don't like seeing their grandchildren left out of a family event. 

This is the core of what I'm saying and I think the core of what other posters are saying.  Whatever the background of the relationship may be, the couple is signalling clear disapproval and that is going to have repercussions.  Reacting to that doesn't made someone a brat or a drama queen.

POD.

I agree that not inviting your own niece and nephew, when you are including others, sends a very major message, and it's not about "wanting a child-free wedding."  People are coming down very hard on the sister for "making this all about her and her kids."  But her brother sending this message really is kind of about them.  How could they not take that personally?  It would take a saint not to feel hurt and rejected. 

As for including Sister if the bride dislikes or barely knows her -- well, the groom is half of that equation, too.  If it's customary in this family/community always to include siblings as attendants -- which it is in many, including mine -- then not having Sister in the wedding is going to feel like a slap and be humiliating, too.  That may or may not be the case for these people, or the bride and groom may only be having one attendant each or something.  But if they're having, like, six, and siblings are customarily included?  Ouch.

That said, the groom's parents and sister may well have overreacted.  I think they'd be foolish not to attend, certainly.  But that's a separate issue.

Winterlight

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Re: Problem page letter - child free wedding drama
« Reply #67 on: September 04, 2016, 06:31:06 PM »
What it boils down to for me is exactly what the groom said: I want you there celebrating my marriage. Focussing on us. Mom's letter conveys no interest in doing just that.

This. It seems like Mom's vision of the wedding has Daughter and Kids as the stars, and he's saying, "No, this is our day and we want our wedding this way," to which her response and that of the family is to stomp their feet and threaten a boycott.
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To whom you speak,
Of whom you speak,
And how, and when, and where.
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katiekat2009

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Re: Problem page letter - child free wedding drama
« Reply #68 on: September 04, 2016, 07:48:16 PM »
I understand both sides, to a certain extent. As a grandmother, there are few opportunities where the entire family clan is gathered and you want to show off your children/grandchildren. The groom wants a wedding unspoiled by irresponsible parents (he knows these kids, we don't). My solution for my daughter's wedding was to have a nursery for the ceremony (all kids under age 10 were required to go into the nursery). The children were allowed to attend the reception, however, and most had a great time. I think this might be a good solution for this guy's wedding with the caveat that grandma and grandpa attend the reception/greeting line before running off to chase kids.
My brother had kids from Hades. As soon as he and his wife walked in the door, the kids were let loose with no supervision. The sister may be like this.

iridaceae

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Re: Problem page letter - child free wedding drama
« Reply #69 on: September 04, 2016, 08:16:58 PM »
Quote

As for including Sister if the bride dislikes or barely knows her -- well, the groom is half of that equation, too.  If it's customary in this family/community always to include siblings as attendants -- which it is in many, including mine -- then not having Sister in the wedding is going to feel like a slap and be humiliating, too.  That may or may not be the case for these people, or the bride and groom may only be having one attendant each or something.  But if they're having, like, six, and siblings are customarily included?  Ouch.

This isn't about the sister. Or her kids. This is a man s saying "this I s how our wedding is going to be". The sister is all "but what about *****my***** plans for your wedding?" That alone tells me neither the parents nor the sister care about the groom.
Nothing to see here.

camlan

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Re: Problem page letter - child free wedding drama
« Reply #70 on: September 04, 2016, 11:59:09 PM »
Quote

As for including Sister if the bride dislikes or barely knows her -- well, the groom is half of that equation, too.  If it's customary in this family/community always to include siblings as attendants -- which it is in many, including mine -- then not having Sister in the wedding is going to feel like a slap and be humiliating, too.  That may or may not be the case for these people, or the bride and groom may only be having one attendant each or something.  But if they're having, like, six, and siblings are customarily included?  Ouch.

This isn't about the sister. Or her kids. This is a man s saying "this I s how our wedding is going to be". The sister is all "but what about *****my***** plans for your wedding?" That alone tells me neither the parents nor the sister care about the groom.

And let's say that the kids not being invited is mostly from the bride. She has probably explained her reasons to the groom, and he agrees with her. Or at least he is backing up what she wants for her wedding day. Which is what I'd expect a groom to do.

As for inviting some kids and not all--I might be alone in this, but I see a difference in inviting two children to be members of the wedding party and not inviting any other children. These two children have a role to play in the wedding.

If, instead, these two children were invited to be guests and the groom's niece and nephew were not invited, that would seem like a slap in the face, sure. But that's not what's going on.

Nothing is impossible, the word itself says, “I’m possible!” –Audrey Hepburn


LifeOnPluto

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Re: Problem page letter - child free wedding drama
« Reply #71 on: September 05, 2016, 06:04:30 AM »
What it boils down to for me is exactly what the groom said: I want you there celebrating my marriage. Focussing on us. Mom's letter conveys no interest in doing just that.

This. It seems like Mom's vision of the wedding has Daughter and Kids as the stars, and he's saying, "No, this is our day and we want our wedding this way," to which her response and that of the family is to stomp their feet and threaten a boycott.

I also agree. I don't think the behaviour of the niece and nephew is the issue here. Rather, I suspect the behaviour of the grandparents is the issue. It's a shame the kids have to miss out (although it sounds like they are too young to remember this event anyway) but if their absence means the LW and her husband will actually pay attention to their son on his wedding day, rather than cooing all over their grandkids, I can't blame the Groom for not inviting the kids.


As for inviting some kids and not all--I might be alone in this, but I see a difference in inviting two children to be members of the wedding party and not inviting any other children. These two children have a role to play in the wedding.

If, instead, these two children were invited to be guests and the groom's niece and nephew were not invited, that would seem like a slap in the face, sure. But that's not what's going on.



I agree with this too. It's not a case where the HC are inviting lots of other children and babies as guests, but only excluding the niece and nephew. Instead, it sounds like they're having a child-free wedding, with the exception of two children who will play the role of flower girl and ring bearer. And there could be a myriad of reasons why they chose those kids instead of the niece and nephew. The other kids could be older, and better able to handle the requirements of the job. Or the Bride could be super-close to these kids - that is, closer than the Groom is to his own niece and nephew. We just don't know.

turnip

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Re: Problem page letter - child free wedding drama
« Reply #72 on: September 05, 2016, 12:30:10 PM »
I don't think we're going to come to a consensus on the matter of the nieces and nephews.  I think it is unreasonable, others don't.  But as for the parents


Quote
We’ve attempted to reach compromises including paying for an entertainer and giving an assurance that if they made any noise they’d be removed, but my son has said that he doesn’t want to look around on his wedding day and see me holding a baby or his father being clambered on.

The message the groom is sending: we don't want niece and nephew there, and it's your fault because we don't trust you to behave appropriately when they are around. 

A brief side-story.  I have friends with an in law who loved to make inappropriate and offensive remarks and then complain that any objectors lack a sense of humor.  When my friends got married they deliberately didn't invite him and made clear to everyone involved that it wasn't an accident or something getting lost in the mail - he was not welcome.

The in law didn't attend and the relationship with that part of the family has cooled to the point of being non-existant.  My friends consider this a fair trade off - even if there are occasional feelings of sadness.  But overall they drew the line and they don't regret it.

So I'm sympathetic to this bride and groom if they really feel that this set of in-laws are just not going to be able to behave appropriately and are making decisions based on that.  But by doing so they have to acknowledge internally that they've hurt the relationship and they are prepared to deal with the fall out.     This isn't something I'd expect the groom's parents or sister to just get over. 
« Last Edit: September 05, 2016, 12:32:34 PM by turnip »

Bales

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Re: Problem page letter - child free wedding drama
« Reply #73 on: September 05, 2016, 01:02:30 PM »
I don't know if that's the message the groom is sending, but it's certainly what his mother is hearing since that is her point of view based on her letter.  It isn't about behaving appropriately in my view of the situation - (since when is holding a baby not behaving appropriately?)- it's simply that they prefer an adult-based wedding, which is their choice.

Kimberami

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Re: Problem page letter - child free wedding drama
« Reply #74 on: September 06, 2016, 10:47:19 AM »
I think if you read just the first few paragraphs of the letter you will see, "My daughter won’t stop crying and refuses to go. She imagined she’d be a bridesmaid, that her little boy would be a page and her husband at least an usher."

In other words, she planned her brother's wedding with her and her family as stars. Now she's peeved and making trouble because nobody is meeting her expectations. Not only are they not involved directly in the wedding, but their children are banned as well. Sadly, nobody has sat her down and explained to her that her expectations were entirely unreasonable and her fantasies weren't any one else's responsibility. She had her wedding. She got to be the star. She doesn't get a 2nd bite at that apple.
POD
She got to have her special day, and now she gets to have her brother's special day, too.
Goodbye Yellow Brick Road.