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Author Topic: How can DD18 tell her houseguest "That won't work for me"? Good update #112  (Read 25449 times)

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guihong

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Hi, all:

If this is in the wrong folder, delete or move with my apologies.

DD18 is in sort of a pickle, and I wanted to get Ehellion's advice:

B/G:  DD's friend "Cammie" (can't remember the exact name I gave her) came to stay with us a few weeks ago.  She is supposed to leave after New Year's for North Carolina for college.  We still don't have a firm plan of when she is going, or where she is supposed to stay.  I found out it's a mostly online art program but we don't know when it starts.  I'm not looking for legal advice on how to get her out of our house.  So far, she's been working at a Halloween store (so that job is obviously ending) and is generally a good guest, but just having an extra person has been a strain and sort of feels "off", if that makes sense.

DD has what I call the "gherkin pickle" and the Big Pickle.  Bear with me :(.

The "gherkin":  Cammie wants to take a road trip to North Carolina to visit a friend of hers.  DD offered to drive (Cammie doesn't have her license), but now is reconsidering the entire thing. For one, neither have a lot of money, and I pointed out that both of them have to find new jobs -Cammie for moving out, and DD for Japan.  I told DD that it seemed not a good use of either money or time.   I pointed out to Cammie that DD doesn't have a lot of driving experience, let alone long drives, and Cammie can't help with the driving even if she did get her license.  Cammie seemed to think they could stay in her friend's dorm room to save money  :o but even if that were so, DD is not comfortable with that (Friend is a guy).  That means a motel, which is more $$$. 

DD is a careful planner before making any move, while Cammie is sort of "We'll figure it out later". 

The main reason DD is hesitating (and why Cammie couldn't just go by herself) is the Big Pickle:  Cammie wants the two of them to move to North Carolina.  This road trip is supposed to be an apartment-hunting trip. I pointed out to DD several facts against this:

1. They don't have jobs or money to even get started there
2. Doubtful anyone will rent to them without a co-signer (which we won't do)
3. Cammie's college plans are so fuzzy
4. DD knows no one in N.C.
5. DD couldn't go to college there without big $$$
6.  She's supposed to leave for Japan in late March; every penny has to go to that

The other option that DD has is a standing invitation to move out to Oregon to stay with her uncle (my brother).  He has a large main house, a secondary river house, and an apartment above his garage (all furnished). That would save a lot of $$, and she could help my brother with tasks he's unable to do.  She could also attend the U of Oregon at a significant discount (Uncle is a professor), and she could establish residency.  The U of O also has a program DD wants.  I could go up there and get her situated.  She could leave for Japan from the West Coast at a significant cut in cost.   It's a win-win, right?

Cammie at this point doesn't want to go to Oregon :(.  Her dream was North Carolina, and I suspect Friend Who Is A Guy has something to do with that.  They're at a standoff, with Cammie telling DD that she can't go to North Carolina without her help, laying it on.  DD doesn't know what to do; she sees the only viable choices as staying at home until after Japan, then moving.  Even if she moves to NC, that leaves Cammie in the lurch for three months or so.  The other choice is to move to Oregon and get a job until she leaves for Japan (Uncle lives in a small town and is well-known and liked, so an employer might be inclined to work with her for the gap).

 I've told her that she has to do what she thinks is best for herself, and Cammie is responsible for Cammie; DD is not.  She doesn't want to "make anyone mad" :(.  I told her, better to make someone else mad than to make herself miserable out of some sense of guilt.  I also pointed out that if DD hadn't been in the picture, Cammie would have had to make her life work by herself anyway.

DD is tempted to go on the road trip if it gives Cammie a wake-up call.  I pointed out she would still be paying for much of it, and it's going to be hard on her physically with all the driving.  Expensive wake-up call!

So, my questions:

1. Any ideas for a script that DD can tell Cammie to get out of the road trip?

2. And related, how to discuss a major choice like moving cross-country (we live in Arkansas)?  I printed out budget worksheets; Cammie may not understand the expenses involved.  I don't think DD grasped it all either.

3. Do I and DH butt out, or can we confront Cammie to her ideas if we don't get straight answers from DD?



« Last Edit: December 24, 2016, 01:29:43 AM by guihong »



camlan

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Re: How can DD18 tell her houseguest "That won't work for me"?
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2016, 04:24:39 PM »
Why would DD even want to move to NC? If she wants to go to Japan, that's all the reason she needs to explain to Cammie why NC isn't happening for DD.

DD needs to decide what she wants to do. Then do it. All she has to say to Cammie is, "Cams, dear, I've been planning to go to Japan/out to live with Uncle for a long time. NC sounds nice, but it isn't part of my plan. I hope you go and have a good time at college."

The only thing Cammie needs to get to NC is a bus ticket. She does not need DD to drive her.

I'm also a little confused. Why is Oregon even an option for Cammie? Why do these two women have to do everything together? They are 18; that's a normal time for high school friends to part ways and go to college or other post-secondary school options.

Sounds like Cammie doesn't want DD to go off and have a life of her own. That might be the real issue you are dealing with--Cammie trying to hold DD back, and DD not wanting to disappoint/upset her friend.
Nothing is impossible, the word itself says, “I’m possible!” –Audrey Hepburn


guihong

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Re: How can DD18 tell her houseguest "That won't work for me"?
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2016, 04:32:51 PM »
Camlan, that's what was bugging me also.  North Carolina may not be a good fit for DD, and Oregon not a fit for Cammie.  I am afraid, deep down, of DD suddenly giving up Japan (she has vehemently said no way she's not going, and we've paid it off already). 

Indeed, the Uncle Bruce move and Japan have been talked about for the past two years.

I like your script.  Going to NC would be all about Cammie and no immediate gains for DD.  I've also pointed that out.

Thanks :).



greencat

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Re: How can DD18 tell her houseguest "That won't work for me"?
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2016, 04:41:10 PM »
For the road trip: "Cammie, I know we've been talking about this road trip, but I am not comfortable with the trip as you want to take it, and making the trip something I am comfortable with would be out of my budget."  Perhaps they can take a shorter road trip somewhere else that is more affordable.  That will probably wake your daughter up to the realities of dealing with what Cammie wants.

An 18-year-old who has never been responsible for all their own living expenses - which your DD hasn't - is going to have a hard time with a budget for a cross-country move.  Have your daughter help you out with your finances - not ask her for money, but let her see how much you spend on housing, food, and utilities and your income.  It will be a valuable life lesson that I dearly wish my own parents had given me instead of having to flounder through it on my own.


For the move, "Cammie, you want to move to NC.  I don't, and I'm not going to.  You have a dream, you figure out how to attain it."

Getting Cammie out of your house sooner rather than later would probably make it a lot easier for your daughter to tell her no - I can completely understand that she doesn't want to make Cammie mad when she's sharing space with her!

RainyDays

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Re: How can DD18 tell her houseguest "That won't work for me"?
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2016, 04:54:02 PM »
I'm confused as to why one girl's plans affect, or the way it's written, depend on the other?

DD18 has her post-graduation plans. Cammie has hers. IME, this is what happens after high school. People go their separate ways -- particularly when college is involved. DD shouldn't settle for North Carolina in the same way that Cammie shouldn't settle for Oregon. And truthfully, since Cammie is just a guest, it's not for you to say whether her reasons for wanting to move to North Carolina are good or not.

As for the road trip, "I'm sorry Cammie, I was looking over my expenses and it's just not a good idea for me to be spending when I really need to be saving right now." There are other ways to travel besides car if Cammie really wants to go to NC. If there's already a friend there, my immediate thought is by bus: DD can drop her off at a station or wherever the bus will be (I took one once with a pick up location at a Korean market), friend can pick her up. There are several bus services that connect cities around the country.

I think you need to speak to Cammie specifically about a move out date. Again, it shouldn't be dependant on DD. And speak to DD about her plans -- not dependant on Cammie. I would not urge them to stick together. Quite the opposite, I would urge them to think only of their individual goals and futures.

Bales

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Re: How can DD18 tell her houseguest "That won't work for me"?
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2016, 04:54:20 PM »
I would ask them if they've even calculated how much money they would need for gas, let alone food and an emergency fund in case the car breaks down. 

Regarding the bigger picture, normally I would say they are adults and can handle it, but they are both under your roof and your DD seems like she may need help pushing back when the boundaries are so blurred.  So I say butt in.  Ask, "Why would DD want to do that?"  Seems like Cammie needs to learn to stand on her own feet and DD needs to work on her spine and realize if a friend gets mad because you won't change your entire life simply to better theirs, then they are not much of a friend.

I also wonder - why is Cammie going to OR a possibility?  She's not a family member or DD's SO, so why would your brother be expected to host her?  I'd take that off the table, which again, helps establish that there are boundaries.

Sophia

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Re: How can DD18 tell her houseguest "That won't work for me"?
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2016, 04:56:36 PM »
Cammie is like a sales person that DD likes, trying to get your DD to buy something she doesn't really want.  When you aren't interested in buying, it is perfectly fair to say, "Why would I want to do that?"   It is obvious what Cammie gets out of N.C.   But, I see no advantage to your DD. 

Another idea, since your DD gave Cammie a verbal Yes.   Tell her she can use you as the Higher Authority excuse.   She can say, "My mom said No, and I don't have enough money to move out on my own.  I don't even have enough money to drive you to N.C."   

Also, it seems to me that if the boyfriend wants her in N.C., he could help Cammie get there.  If he can't, then there is always the bus. 

guihong

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Re: How can DD18 tell her houseguest "That won't work for me"?
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2016, 05:12:26 PM »
You are all right.  I'll clarify that if Cammie were to go to Oregon, she wouldn't live in Uncle's house or in one of his properties.  Uncle would be pleased to have his niece, less so, a stranger.  So, she would have to make her own way out there just as in NC.  There's no real incentive for Cammie to go to Oregon, just as none for DD to go to NC.

Cammie and DD went to nursery school and early elementary school together, then haven't seen one another until a few weeks ago  :o, so they're not high school friends.  I've tried to point out that while (luckily) things are going well so far, she has no real yardstick for Cammie's character or how she reacts to stressfull situations, such as moving out.  In fact, it seems just the opposite; Cammie isn't very forward-thinking or independent. 

DD has the idea of going to Oregon, going to college, and gaining some independence and then moving wherever (if she didn't fall head over heels with Oregon, where she's been many times :D).  That's another thing; Cammie has never been to NC but DD knows Eugene/Springfield and loves it. 

DH and I are trying to butt out since DD is 18, but we might have to pin down Cammie for a definite move-out date and make clear we aren't financing DD going to NC.



lakey

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Re: How can DD18 tell her houseguest "That won't work for me"?
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2016, 05:40:57 PM »
Do either of these two have any idea what it costs to get an apartment the first month with first month's rent and damage deposit? Do they understand what it means to sign a lease? Then of course there are all of the living expenses, utilities, insurance, gasoline, groceries, clothing, cleaning supplies, furnishings. I suspect that if your daughter moves anywhere with this child/woman, your daughter could end up subsidizing a financially immature person.

Carotte

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Re: How can DD18 tell her houseguest "That won't work for me"?
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2016, 05:59:51 PM »
You might not want to butt in since she's 18 but I think you should (if not already) be clear about what you think would be better for her. And lay it on thick  ;D.
Starting with what makes the most sense for DD and her future plans (going to Oregon) and then with why it doesn't sound great to go by or stay in NC.

Why this joined at the hips connundrum anyway? I don't see why it's either A or B for both.
Maybe ask DD why she thinks it's her responsability to help Cammie get to NC ( I find the
Quote
  They're at a standoff, with Cammie telling DD that she can't go to North Carolina without her help, laying it on.
quite concerning).
Sounds like Cammie both want the easy/security blanket of having someone she knows and thinks should do stuff for her and give the directives of what they'll do.
I can only see bad scenarios here, and I guess you do to.
What happens when Cammies wants to instead move in with her beau? What then happens if things don't work out with him?
What's the name in english, fair weather friend?
The roadtrip will never be a wake up call for Cammie, hopefully if it comes to this it would be one for DD but she should save herself the headache of that one.

Sometimes the shortest is the easiest.
"Cammie, I've been thinking about it and the roadtrip won't work for me. After consideration it's not in my budget. Maybe we can see what your options are by bus?"

DavidH

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Re: How can DD18 tell her houseguest "That won't work for me"?
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2016, 06:04:48 PM »
I feel like I'm seeing only half the story.  The first question is what does DD want to do.  Is it Japan or is it NC.  These are very different options.  How long does she intend to spend in Japan, is it weeks, months, years? 

You talk about a program at the University of Oregon, but how does that all fit into this.  If she moves to Oregon in November or December, how would she start classes and then head out 3 or 4 months later?  Has DD been accepted to school in either place?

For your questions:

1. Any ideas for a script that DD can tell Cammie to get out of the road trip? 
Cammie, I can't afford to drive to NC right now and even if I could find the money, what would I do when I got there?  I don't have a place to live or a job and I can't live in your friend's dorm room.  As you know, I'm going to Japan in March, so it doesn't make sense for me to move and get settled in a new place right now.

2. And related, how to discuss a major choice like moving cross-country (we live in Arkansas)?  I printed out budget worksheets; Cammie may not understand the expenses involved.  I don't think DD grasped it all either.
Ask DD what she wants and how she intends to achieve it.  On one hand, if she can afford it, a road trip to NC and back could be a fun adventure, but it costs money.  If DD decides this is what she is determined to do, make it clear she's on her own, for better or worse and that you won't bail her out of a mistake.  if she doesn't do that, what will she do between now and March.  Does she have any plans?

3. Do I and DH butt out, or can we confront Cammie to her ideas if we don't get straight answers from DD?
I'm not sure what confronting Cammie means.  Cammies life is hers to live, your only concern should be DD.   

flamingo

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Re: How can DD18 tell her houseguest "That won't work for me"?
« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2016, 06:23:38 PM »
I also think that the friend who is a boy situation in NC could be trouble.  Cammie and her friend will have each other....that certainly could become a problem for your daughter.  I am thinking of the whole "third wheel" deal.  Just a thought...
« Last Edit: November 01, 2016, 06:26:47 PM by flamingo »

SamiHami

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Re: How can DD18 tell her houseguest "That won't work for me"?
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2016, 06:30:01 PM »
I think it's time to tell Cammie to move out. She's being a disruptive influence on your family life. Yes, your daughter is 18 and technically an adult, but your life is being affected as well. You are hosting her, not your daughter, and you get to decide who stays. This guest has worn out her welcome.

This will possibly be your daughters last Thanksgiving and Christmas as a member of your household. She's going off to Japan and another state to college. After that she'll probably establish her own household. This is a special time in the life of your family and Cammie is bringing undue stress into your home. That's not cool. You don't have to be mean about it, but you can firmly-and kindly-tell Cammie that it's time to go live elsewhere. You've done her a kindness by allowing her to stay with you. That doesn't mean it has to go on forever.

I suspect that once Cammie is out of the house (by the way, doesn't she have her own parents to support her while she figures her life out?), her influence over your daughter will diminish greatly.

What have you got? Is it food? Is it for me? I want it whatever it is!

Hillia

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Re: How can DD18 tell her houseguest "That won't work for me"?
« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2016, 06:31:06 PM »
I find the reappearance of Cammie just when she wants a) a place to stay for awhile and b) someone to "share" the expenses of traveling and/or moving to North Carolina to be very suspicious, but that's just me.  Where are Cammie's parents in all this?  If anyone would be helping her financially, I would think that they would be the first place to turn for help or advice.  I think you definitely need to butt in to help DD strengthen her spine.  She's already told you what she wants to do; I think the stakes are a little too high to allow this to be a learning experience.  If she becomes dead set on going, she'll have to take her lumps, but your role in this is to support her (strongly).  And I agree that it's time to have a sit down with Cammie about her plans for the future, especially now that her job will be sending very soon.  How does she intend to buy her shampoo, hamburgers, movie tickets once her last paycheck is gone?  How does she intend to put her vague school plans into effect?  You don't have a say in her future plans, except in the matter of where she's living when she carries them out.  The sooner the better, before she gets to comfortable.

crella

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Re: How can DD18 tell her houseguest "That won't work for me"?
« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2016, 07:12:07 PM »
You are all right.  I'll clarify that if Cammie were to go to Oregon


Cammie and DD went to nursery school and early elementary school together, then haven't seen one another until a few weeks ago  :o, so they're not high school friends. 


Frankly, considering the second part if this quote, I don't get the first. It's possible I've missed a thread along the way, and am not fully understanding the situation, I had a really busy month last month. However, just considering what I'm reading here,  if they haven't seen each other in years I don't see that your daughter owes her anything, and I don't understand why Cammie thinks she is entitled to have your DD take her to NC. I especially don't see her going to Oregon for any reason at all!  I would take Oregon **completely** off the table for Cammie. She has no right to glom onto (as my mother used to say) DD and co-opt her opportunities and plans. Your DD has a good head on her shoulders and has plans. Cammie can't spoil that. She needs a bus ticket to NC.