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Author Topic: How can DD18 tell her houseguest "That won't work for me"? Good update #112  (Read 25395 times)

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FauxFoodist

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Re: How can DD18 tell her houseguest "That won't work for me"?
« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2016, 08:07:28 PM »
I can see being 18 and not yet being strong enough to stand up against a stronger personality so I see no problem with you and DH stepping in and doing something like telling DD that she could tell Cammie her parents aren't going to pay for anything and not allow her to take her car so it wouldn't be possible for her to do.

I'm surprised you're letting a girl you haven't seen since DD was in elementary school stay with you for so long.  That's very kind, but it's clear she's already making waves so, perhaps, it's time for her to move on...alone.

sammycat

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Re: How can DD18 tell her houseguest "That won't work for me"?
« Reply #16 on: November 01, 2016, 09:26:34 PM »
I'm confused as to where Cammie's parents are (or aren't) in all of this.  Also, how someone neither you nor your DD have seen in years and years is suddenly living with you. 

DD doesn't owe Cammie anything, other than, "that won't work for me".

NFPwife

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Re: How can DD18 tell her houseguest "That won't work for me"?
« Reply #17 on: November 01, 2016, 09:52:31 PM »
I know your DD is 18. I tend to think of 18 yos as emerging adults rather than adults. That gives you a little more room to guide and steer your DD and, in this case, flat out put your foot down. I think what's occurring here is that you've been trying to reason with an unreasonable person. Cammie wants to go to her guy friend. Logic and ration are not going to impact her; they are not her friends. She's exerting some influence over your DD as I think your DD is the means to get her there.

I'd put your foot down and say, "No, DD is not driving to NC." You've said that she doesn't have experience on long drives and that alone makes this enough of a safety concern that I think you are within your authority to say, "Sorry. Not happening." Also, Cammie seems to problem solve in a very short term and impulsive way. If they have any kind of trouble on the road, I could see Cammie encouraging some poor choices. ("We'll just hop in this stranger's car and he'll drive us to get a tire, that way we won't have to wait for AAA and will be quicker to get to my guy friend.") If Cammie and your DD want your rationale for the no, you can give it. I suspect that, deep down, your DD will be grateful for you to do this. If you want to work on her spine, you can rehearse with her on how to tell Cammie "No," with some of the scripts here. Then, if she isn't successful you step in with "No." That gives your DD a chance to firm up her spine and you still get a good outcome.

I agree that it's time to get Cammie out of your house. She might be a good house guest in the "she cleans up after herself and doesn't drink from the milk container" sense, but she's pulling your daughter in ways that are not helpful. I'd give her notice ASAP. She might just move one to another nursery school friend.

guihong

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Re: How can DD18 tell her houseguest "That won't work for me"?
« Reply #18 on: November 01, 2016, 11:16:24 PM »
Yeah, we (me and DH) never did get a whole story of Cammie's situation.  DH himself doesn't like confrontations and messy situations so he leaves the muck work to me...another forum altogether.

Her father seems to be completely out of the picture.  She left her mother's house at 18 over smothering behavior (she says) and possibly some vicious fights.  Then she moved in with a family she knew from church, but suddenly had to leave, conveniently (I think) just after she ran into DD again.  It was DD, not Cammie, who asked us if she could stay here.  We should have contacted her mother and that church family before taking her in, to find out what happened, or another side of what happened.

As for the road trip, I think I have the perfect out if DD feels cowed-there are several hiring fairs for seasonal work this week, so they can't be shooting off to NC; they have to get jobs.  Do you think I can make it a condition for staying here-she has to get a job, or go on to NC herself?  One time, when Cammie and I were in the car alone, I spelled out several reasons not to take the road trip, so she knows my thoughts on it.

DD told me she would rather get another job than spend all her money (I think she rather likes earning a check  ;)).

Cammie always has the option of Section 8 and other relief programs, even temporarily.  I once stayed in a shelter room smaller than my closet today. 

I have a sinking feeling that we're going to have to at the very least pin down Cammie as to her moving plans and ask to see her school acceptance paperwork.



lakey

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Re: How can DD18 tell her houseguest "That won't work for me"?
« Reply #19 on: November 02, 2016, 12:30:12 AM »
Quote
We should have contacted her mother and that church family before taking her in, to find out what happened, or another side of what happened.

You should still do that. It's her mother's role to take responsibility for her. Unless there is something abusive about the mother, Camy should be sent home. It sounds like she doesn't have any serious, realistic plans for the future and as long as she has you providing for her, she doesn't have to. And staying in a friend's dorm room is not a plan. Getting an apartment in another state when you have no job, isn't a realistic plan. Camy is clueless about how things work in the real world. No wonder she had problems with her mother. She wants to live on her own like an adult, but she can't even handle getting herself to another state without getting a friend of a few weeks to drive her there.

There are people who can be adults at 18 and support themselves. If Camy wants to do that, she needs to face reality. Otherwise she needs to go home to Mom and do some maturing.

JoieGirl7

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Re: How can DD18 tell her houseguest "That won't work for me"?
« Reply #20 on: November 02, 2016, 01:43:31 AM »
There's a really great word for situations like this.  "No."

"Let's go to NC!"
"No"

"Aw, c'mon, it'll be great!
"No"

"Why are you being such a party pooper?"
"I'm not going to NC."

Also, Cammie is not DD's houseguest, she is your houseguest.

Start acting parental, giving advice, good advice-- after all you have a lot more experience to do so... Maybe she'll find it "smothering" and move along.

It's not rude to be who you are in your own house.  She is not a houseguest in the sense that she's there for a few days.  She's a houseguest in the sense that she is not a paying tenant so that the social dynamic is different.  As a paying tenant, she would have an equal social standing in some ways.  As a teenager, albeit an adult, living in your home at your pleasure, you can infringe on that boundary just a bit.  If she doesn't like it, she can leave.

And, in the absence of a concrete plan, it may be best for her to move.  I don't think it would be inappropriate to give her an ultimatum.  Either she gets a plan together or she needs to be out in a week.  The plan should includ her being out of the house by the first of the year.

Not being able to be completely clear gives her tremendous power that she should not have.

And I know what you mean about having that extra person feeling "off."  I was in a similar situation but not with a young adult.

I live in NC-- honestly can't figure out why someone would want to come here given all the other fascinating places in the country!


Alicia

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Re: How can DD18 tell her houseguest "That won't work for me"?
« Reply #21 on: November 02, 2016, 01:59:36 AM »
I think Cammie has lived there long enough I would let her know that she has to be out by November 15 due to your holiday plans. She is notr a close friend and you shouldn't have let her move in she is taking advantage of you and DD.
DD doesn't want to do this. Yes she is an adult but you are the parent. Be the bad guy tell DD that  you will back her up and then you tell  Cammie DD is not allowed to do this road trip.
Cammie is not your responsibilty DD is.

maksi

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Re: How can DD18 tell her houseguest "That won't work for me"?
« Reply #22 on: November 02, 2016, 03:33:15 AM »
I don't think you need to worry about what Cammie is going to do, just your daughter, since for an outsider there seems to be no pickle at all (okay, maybe the gherkin, but that's just learning to say no), possibly only a spine to grow - understandable for an 18-yo :) For some reason she's tempted to take the option with a lot to lose and a little to win, or so it sounds like. Maybe the transfer to adulthood is scary? Going to the uni and to Japan are taking steps forward, living in the moment and in an adventure in NC is staying in-between?

I think the main issue here is to find out which one is the real problem here: is it just hard for her to say no to Cammie and she just needs to grow a stronger spine? Because after Cammie she will meet other people that want her to do something she maybe isn't so keen on doing and learning to say no is pretty useful. And of course parents can help with that.

 Or does she actually want to skip the earlier plans and go with her? In which case she might need a few good talks about what she could win and what she could lose. Some opportunities might not come again, some risks are just not worth taking, if indeed going to NC is as crazy choice as it seems to me from what you wrote.

At 18 it's so tempting to go for an adventure, especially with a friend, when the future seems both so scary with big things but also just full of exciting possibilities.

camlan

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Re: How can DD18 tell her houseguest "That won't work for me"?
« Reply #23 on: November 02, 2016, 07:39:11 AM »
Quote
It was DD, not Cammie, who asked us if she could stay here.

I strongly suspect DD was coached or prompted by Cammie to ask if Cammie could stay with you.
Nothing is impossible, the word itself says, “I’m possible!” –Audrey Hepburn


wolfie

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Re: How can DD18 tell her houseguest "That won't work for me"?
« Reply #24 on: November 02, 2016, 07:49:58 AM »
Do you think I can make it a condition for staying here-she has to get a job, or go on to NC herself? 

You can make a condition of living under you roof that she has to stand on her head for an hour every day.  It's your home -   You have Control. Take it and let her know what you need from her for her to stay.  Personally I would let her know when she has to leave cause it sounds like she is not a good influence. 

It auto corrected control to courage tool. :-) take that too!
« Last Edit: November 02, 2016, 07:51:32 AM by wolfie »

Chickadee

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Re: How can DD18 tell her houseguest "That won't work for me"?
« Reply #25 on: November 02, 2016, 08:55:25 AM »
Yeah, we (me and DH) never did get a whole story of Cammie's situation.  DH himself doesn't like confrontations and messy situations so he leaves the muck work to me...another forum altogether.

Her father seems to be completely out of the picture.  She left her mother's house at 18 over smothering behavior (she says) and possibly some vicious fights.  Then she moved in with a family she knew from church, but suddenly had to leave, conveniently (I think) just after she ran into DD again.  It was DD, not Cammie, who asked us if she could stay here.  We should have contacted her mother and that church family before taking her in, to find out what happened, or another side of what happened.

As for the road trip, I think I have the perfect out if DD feels cowed-there are several hiring fairs for seasonal work this week, so they can't be shooting off to NC; they have to get jobs.  Do you think I can make it a condition for staying here-she has to get a job, or go on to NC herself? One time, when Cammie and I were in the car alone, I spelled out several reasons not to take the road trip, so she knows my thoughts on it.

DD told me she would rather get another job than spend all her money (I think she rather likes earning a check  ;)).

Cammie always has the option of Section 8 and other relief programs, even temporarily.  I once stayed in a shelter room smaller than my closet today. 

I have a sinking feeling that we're going to have to at the very least pin down Cammie as to her moving plans and ask to see her school acceptance paperwork.

You can do whatever you want regarding your question I bolded. This is your home!

You've received some great advice here, and I second NFPwife's advice.

I'm going to be pretty blunt here. Do not butt out of this! Your daughter is legally an adult, but 18 is still very young. She needs you and your husband now just as much as she did when she was 8; just for different reasons. Also, (and this is harsh - so I apologize in advance) Cammie is using your daughter. Your daughter is simply a means for her to get to NC and her guy friend.

Please contact Cammie's Mom. I feel kind of sorry for Cammie as it sounds like life has been kind of rough for her, but you and your husband are not responsible for her. Neither is your daughter.

It might help your daughter to strengthen her spine by reminding her that the decisions she makes now will affect the rest of her life. (That was my mantra when my daughter was your daughter's age.) Your daughter has a wonderful life plan for the next few years, and I'm sure she will regret postponing it or allowing her friendship with Cammie to alter it.

Please, step in here and do what you know is right for your daughter.

Drunken Housewife

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Re: How can DD18 tell her houseguest "That won't work for me"?
« Reply #26 on: November 02, 2016, 09:01:03 AM »
Cammie needs to take the bus. I was a poor kid; I used to take Greyhound and Trailways. Maybe Amtrak is an option.

Driving from Arkansas to NC will take up a lot of gas, hotel stops along the way, etc... Your daughter needs to say, "I can't afford that trip."

It makes no sense to me that your daughter would be moving in Nov. and either getting an apt (if NC) or starting univ (if OR) when she plans to go to Japan in March. I feel like I'm not getting something. March is just around the corner. My husband and I have a once-in-a-lifetime trip planned for mid-Feb., and I'm highly aware it's coming up.
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SamiHami

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Re: How can DD18 tell her houseguest "That won't work for me"?
« Reply #27 on: November 02, 2016, 09:45:30 AM »
It sounds like Cammie pretty immature. She's making grand plans and seems to think they are all going to fall into place on their own, with little to no effort on her part. I may be off base, but I strongly suspect that the problems with her "smothering" mother and the church family that put her out was probably because she didn't want to follow the house rules. I would give her a definite date that she has to be out. Someone suggested 11/15; that sounds reasonable. It gives her time to find another situation and gives you time to plan your holidays without her being a thorn in your side.

Your daughter seems pretty together (based upon things you've posted). I think once they are under separate roofs-and your daughter no longer has something she wants (a place to crash, a ride to NC) their friendship will die a natural death.

I really do think you should call her mother and the family that she stayed with. I think it will be enlightening. And of course come back here and tell us what you learn. :)

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wonderfullyanonymous

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Re: How can DD18 tell her houseguest "That won't work for me"?
« Reply #28 on: November 02, 2016, 12:21:27 PM »
In my opinion, you should sit both girls down, and give them the what-for. Cammie, you want to go to NC, buy a bus ticket, DD is NOT driving you. The funds for a road trip of that caliber are not there. DD is NOT going to use the money for her trip to Japan to pay for your trip to NC. DD I think it's in your best interest to move to Oregon, (if anything to get away from Cammie.) Cammie, the free ride stops right now, and you will go out and get a job, even if it's at McDonald's. Save your money so you can buy the bus ticket. Here is a lease agreement that states that X is your last month here, sign it!

I know it sounds harsh, but sometimes harsh needs to be done.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2016, 12:25:29 PM by wonderfullyanonymous »

FauxFoodist

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Re: How can DD18 tell her houseguest "That won't work for me"?
« Reply #29 on: November 02, 2016, 12:53:36 PM »
It sounds like Cammie pretty immature. She's making grand plans and seems to think they are all going to fall into place on their own, with little to no effort on her part. I may be off base, but I strongly suspect that the problems with her "smothering" mother and the church family that put her out was probably because she didn't want to follow the house rules. I would give her a definite date that she has to be out. Someone suggested 11/15; that sounds reasonable. It gives her time to find another situation and gives you time to plan your holidays without her being a thorn in your side.

Your daughter seems pretty together (based upon things you've posted). I think once they are under separate roofs-and your daughter no longer has something she wants (a place to crash, a ride to NC) their friendship will die a natural death.

I really do think you should call her mother and the family that she stayed with. I think it will be enlightening. And of course come back here and tell us what you learn. :)

I don't think Cammie sounds so much immature as irresponsible and selfish (haven't a lot of us had rather grandiose plans when young and inexperienced?).  I had a houseguest a bit like this when I was a 25-year-old college student and sharing a house with three other college students who were 19 and 20.  The houseguest was 22, a fellow classmate with mutual friends and bouncing around couchsurfing because she had a fight with her stepmother (I think we were couch #2).  What was the fight about?  Well, mean ol' stepmom expected Houseguest to get a job if she weren't going to continue/progress in college as she was tired of her 22-year old stepDD being a big flake (Houseguest wasn't completing her classes and hadn't had a job as long as I'd known her, which had been around 2-3 years at that point).  Houseguest stayed with one mutual friend (he lived with his parents) until she wore out her welcome (around 4-6 weeks).  She planted herself in our house for a couple of weeks after coming over to hang out with one housemate then hurt her ankle.  None of us had opted to have her stay and didn't really want her around so long (who wants a permanent fixture on your living room couch that gives you begging eyes when you go to your own kitchen to get something to eat?).  We all lacked the spine to boot her.  When the utility bills came in showing a significant increase (for broke college students), I had the spine to tell her she had to go but that we'd give her a week to find somewhere else to go (my housemates called me into a house meeting while I sat in the living room with Houseguest that was obviously about her since she was excluded from it and we had it in one housemate's room).  She flew the coop the next day while we were all out (fled to another mutual friend's home where MF lived with her parents).  She never did even so much as thank us for letting her stay in our home for six weeks, now that I think about it!

When others had asked Houseguest about moving back home, she would simply say it was not an option.  She much preferred putting out others than dealing with her "problems" at home (I use quotes because I don't think Stepmom was being unreasonable with a 22-year-old deadweight).  My housemates actually suggested contacting her parents and informing them of the situation.  I said absolutely not because 1) it wasn't our place to contact her parents and 2) if we wanted to stay on good terms with Houseguest, we shouldn't cross that line (we still liked her, just didn't want to financially support her and have her camping out on our couch).  I said I had no problem being the bad guy and telling her she had to go (my housemates were all cowards; they thought the easiest way out would be to contact her parents).  I don't know what path she eventually took and don't remember how long she took advantage of our mutual friend's parents' kindness (I think MF did tell me Houseguest ended up returning home at some point).  However, Houseguest is one of my FB friends, and she's clearly gotten her act together since 20 years ago and is a happily married mother of two.

I don't really have a good suggestion for what to do with Cammie on 11/15 if she doesn't leave on her own by then.  My immediate thought was to take her and her things to the bus station and leave her there.  Not the nicest thing to do, but it gets her out of your house and away from your DD.  When I've had to boot houseguests who'd stayed too long, I really never had a great solution (and this all took place when I was 16 -- just accept my parents stepping in was not an option and these individuals staying in the first place hadn't been my choice).  They were all teens, also, who were homeless by their own fault as far as I was concerned (either kicked out for drug use or runaways but also on drugs -- meth heads all of them).  Your 18-year-old DD should not be having to deal with the issues dreams of another 18-year-old who is troubled and latches onto your DD to make those "dreams" happen, not caring that she'll be dragging down your DD with her.  I'm thinking that given Cammie and DD haven't been in touch since elementary school (not hard to stay in touch/get back in touch given FB these days), Cammie had no one else left to use.  I think wonderfullyanonymous has a good suggestion:

In my opinion, you should sit both girls down, and give them the what-for. Cammie, you want to go to NC, buy a bus ticket, DD is NOT driving you. The funds for a road trip of that caliber are not there. DD is NOT going to use the money for her trip to Japan to pay for your trip to NC. DD I think it's in your best interest to move to Oregon, (if anything to get away from Cammie.) Cammie, the free ride stops right now, and you will go out and get a job, even if it's at McDonald's. Save your money so you can buy the bus ticket. Here is a lease agreement that states that X is your last month here, sign it!

Sit them both down now and tell them, point blank, that DD going to NC is not an option, period.

This reminds me of an incident a few years ago involving the DD of a CW.  DD and her BF live together.  BF lost his job so DD started supporting him financially but didn't tell her parents, who were actually providing a lot of financial support to DD so that DD could go to school and not have to worry about paying her rent, auto insurance, tuition, etc.  When CW learned that BF had lost his job a few months earlier and wasn't doing anything concrete to find another one, she had no problem telling her 20-something DD to tell her same-age BF to start pounding the pavement and find a job, any job, ASAP, because CW and DH were not about to continue letting DD support BF financially when they (CW and DH) were sacrificing in order for DD to complete her education.  To his credit, BF went out and got applications the next day, got another job fairly quickly and got himself together.

Cammie's not going to get off her butt and help herself when she keeps being able to leech off others.  It's clear she can see she can probably be successful in pushing DD to do what she wants, especially if you don't step in.  We're going into the holiday season; there's no reason neither of them shouldn't be able to get applications right now at retail locations who'd be hiring for seasonal help.  Since they're not working and not going to school at the moment, then they should be able to go out today and bring back job applications.  I'd step in and step in ASAP.  If your DD is afraid of making anyone mad, she should be afraid of making you and your DH mad, very mad, that she'd be throwing away her hard-earned/-saved money to go on a trip in which she has zero interest.  Also, if she still wants to help Cammie out, she could buy Cammie a one-way bus ticket to NC (or you could buy Cammie a one-way bus ticket to NC then drop Cammie off at the bus station yourself to ensure she goes and you're there to keep her from further pressing on your DD).  Cammie gets to NC likes she wants, DD has a way out by getting Cammie to NC but not going herself and you get Cammie out of your house.