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Author Topic: How can DD18 tell her houseguest "That won't work for me"? Good update #112  (Read 25278 times)

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Hmmmmm

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Re: How can DD18 tell her houseguest "That won't work for me"?
« Reply #30 on: November 02, 2016, 01:43:26 PM »
It sounds like Cammie jumped ship, stole a life raft, and is trying to get your DD to jump in with her. I think we all had friends like this at that age. I know I did and saw it with my DD. Cammie has sort of an idea of what she wants to do but doesn't want to do it on her own or take the necessary steps to do it.

In your shoes I'd just keep re-iterating to your DD that
1)Cammie has no real plans and has flaked on quit a few people in the last year and there is no guarantee that she won't do the same to your dD
2)If Cammie really wants to go to NC, there's buses and planes. Your DD isn't the one standing in way of her "dream", it's her lack of planning
3)The time and effort it would take to do a move to NC for 4 months (Nov-March) isn't really worth the effort and will be expensive
4) From a cultural experience perspective (assuming your DD is interested in that since she wants to visit Japan), Oregon will be a bigger change over Arkansas that NC would be. (Don't get me wrong, I love NC, but I don't think of it vastly different than Little Rock)
5) She'll have a support network in Oregon. If she get's there and doesn't like it, that's fine. She can make another choice. If she gets to NC and doesn't like it, it will be much harder to change courses if she has an apartment lease. Also, NC universities are getting pretty competitive and she might have a hard time getting into her choice.

As far as interacting with Cammie, I'd just say things like "I know you'd like to have DD with you because moving can be scary on it's on. But DD really has her plans set. I'd hate for her to give up on Japan, wouldn't you?" or "well, if NC is what you really want I hope it works out for you. I'm happy to help you research jobs and places to live." I would not get more involved in parenting her or giving advice. I personally think the more engaged you are in Cammie's life the more vested your DD will feel. I'd make sure to keep her living with very much a "temporary feel".

Kaypeep

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Re: How can DD18 tell her houseguest "That won't work for me"?
« Reply #31 on: November 02, 2016, 02:06:20 PM »
I agree with keeping up the temporary feel of Cammie's stay.

Perhaps a family meeting or at least you, DD and Cammie.  Sort of a "State of the Union" meeting to affirm where things stand right now, and what the plans/goals are for the next few months.
Say that in light of the recent suggestion of DD moving to NC with Cammie, it's been discussed among the family and it's simply not possible.  No explanation - just let Cammie know it was discussed among the parents and their daughter and the decision is made so it's now off the table.

Reiterate again how your family is happy to help Cammie with a temporary place to stay until January (or whatever the cutoff date was - now is the time to remind her this is TEMPORARY) but Cammie's stay and future plans are just that - CAMMIE'S PLANS.  It's great she reconnected with DD but DD has her own future plans and they don't involve relocating to NC.

And speaking of NC, the immediate plan for DD to drive there with Cammie and stay is not possible either.  Don't even get into the reasons if you don't want to but if it helps (because DD hasn't developed a spine enough yet to handle Cammie being pushy) just say DH and I have discussed it and we don't want DD making that drive in our car (I assume you pay for the car, not DD.)  Also, DD has work responsibilities and the cost is prohibitive as she needs her money for other obligations in the immediate future.

HOWEVER, you can help Cammie with arranging bus/train tix and a ride to/from the station for her trip to NC if she still plans on going.  Then make it clear that upon return from the trip, Cammie needs to find a new job after Halloween store closes if she wants to stay in yiour home.  Or whatever conditions you put on her stay. (if job market is tough, then she contributes with chores around the house while she makes plans for next steps and moving out in January.  She must be contributing to the household with chores, and focusing on what she needs for her departure in a couple of months.   Offer to help with social services if she needs to arrange housing or school or whatever, but politely make it clear in this meeting what the deadlines are, and that they are CAMMIE'S to make.

guihong

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Re: How can DD18 tell her houseguest "That won't work for me"?
« Reply #32 on: November 02, 2016, 03:28:58 PM »
Such great advice and support here :).

I'm grabbing my popcorn and a Big Gulp for tonight.  Cammie told DD she wanted to talk to me, and by the tone reported by DD, it's about how I meddled and screwed up the road trip that DD originally said yes to.  Fine, I said the three of us (Cammie, myself and DD) are going out to dinner to talk in a neutral space. 

DD came to me yesterday and today, admitting that she isn't of titanium spine material yet and needed my help in getting out of the road trip and the move.  I am glad she feels free to come to me when in a pickle; some teenagers (most?) don't do that and get into trouble.

Cammie does have a strong, pushy personality and I think she seizes on DD's waffling and tries to make her JADE, with arguments at every turn.  DD and I had a talk this morning about how this is a teachable moment, and that while I'm not perfect (and neither is anyone on this board), that I hoped she remembers it's OK to stand up for herself, even if her reasons don't seem justified.  I'm going to have to watch out tonight so that I, a grownup, don't find myself JADEing with an 18 year old.  DD says I've improved my assertiveness, even when unfavorable to herself :D.

Bottom line; road trip and move not happening.  DH has said we would, if we had to, help Cammie with a bus ticket and the ride to the bus.  Am I so wrong to secretly hope she just decides to go on to NC, since Halloween is over?

I'll report back tonight :).



wolfie

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Re: How can DD18 tell her houseguest "That won't work for me"?
« Reply #33 on: November 02, 2016, 04:07:12 PM »
remember "because I don't want to" is a valid argument. And a final one too.

Kaypeep

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Re: How can DD18 tell her houseguest "That won't work for me"?
« Reply #34 on: November 02, 2016, 04:12:43 PM »
Good luck! 

Cammie sounds pushy/assertive.  I never could understand how some people push back when given an answer they don't like, that they can't just accept it.  DD should practice giving some standard replies "You know Cammie, I know I changed my mind but my reasons are my own.  I'm sticking with my decision and I don't need to really explain it to anyone.  They are my reasons and not up for debate with anyone else so I'm not going to discuss them."

Or maybe "The plan was  your idea and it sounds great - FOR YOU.  But I realized I got caught up in your enthusiasm and excitement, and after a while I realized that the plan doesn't actually suit MY GOALS.  So before I waste your time or my own, I'm letting you know I'm out.  I'm going to stick to my original plan instead after all because that's what I really want.  NC is your plan, and your goal.  It's not mine and I need to stick to my original plan."

Kaypeep

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Re: How can DD18 tell her houseguest "That won't work for me"?
« Reply #35 on: November 02, 2016, 04:20:43 PM »
PS - Stay strong and play the adult.  My house, my rules.
If Cammie tries to challenge you because YOU ruined their plans, then just revert to "My house, my rules.  I don't have to justify my decisions to anyone when it concerns my family and my property - ie: my car.  We understand the change inconvenienced you and  that's why we've offered to help with train/bus travel plans instead."  Remind her what you offered when she first came to stay.  A place to live until January, help with social services, etc.     Her plans now involve requests for favors above and beyond the scope you offered or were prepared to offer, so I'm afraid it's not possible to help with these plans.

Mustard

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Re: How can DD18 tell her houseguest "That won't work for me"?
« Reply #36 on: November 02, 2016, 04:21:52 PM »
Sometimes it's a mom's job to play the baddie..

Dazi

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Re: How can DD18 tell her houseguest "That won't work for me"?
« Reply #37 on: November 02, 2016, 06:21:38 PM »
I agree it's beyond time to play "the mom card." If I had to, I'd buy her a ticket to NC myself...just to get rid of her.
Meditate. Live purely. Quiet the mind. Do your work with mastery. Like the moon, come out from behind the clouds! Shine. ---Gautama Buddah





Hmmmmm

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Re: How can DD18 tell her houseguest "That won't work for me"?
« Reply #38 on: November 02, 2016, 06:26:55 PM »
Good luck... 

Hillia

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Re: How can DD18 tell her houseguest "That won't work for me"?
« Reply #39 on: November 02, 2016, 06:45:53 PM »
Such great advice and support here :).

I'm grabbing my popcorn and a Big Gulp for tonight.  Cammie told DD she wanted to talk to me, and by the tone reported by DD, it's about how I meddled and screwed up the road trip that DD originally said yes to.  Fine, I said the three of us (Cammie, myself and DD) are going out to dinner to talk in a neutral space. 

DD came to me yesterday and today, admitting that she isn't of titanium spine material yet and needed my help in getting out of the road trip and the move.  I am glad she feels free to come to me when in a pickle; some teenagers (most?) don't do that and get into trouble.

Cammie does have a strong, pushy personality and I think she seizes on DD's waffling and tries to make her JADE, with arguments at every turn.  DD and I had a talk this morning about how this is a teachable moment, and that while I'm not perfect (and neither is anyone on this board), that I hoped she remembers it's OK to stand up for herself, even if her reasons don't seem justified.  I'm going to have to watch out tonight so that I, a grownup, don't find myself JADEing with an 18 year old.  DD says I've improved my assertiveness, even when unfavorable to herself :D.

Bottom line; road trip and move not happening.  DH has said we would, if we had to, help Cammie with a bus ticket and the ride to the bus.  Am I so wrong to secretly hope she just decides to go on to NC, since Halloween is over?

I'll report back tonight :).

This kind of gets my back up, although I admit I could be overreacting.  The general tone sounds to me like a principal summoning a naughty student to the office for a lecture.  She's not in any position to dictate to you what she wants; she's relying entirely on your generosity and essentially, you get to tell her how things work in your home and with your family.

LadyL

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Re: How can DD18 tell her houseguest "That won't work for me"?
« Reply #40 on: November 02, 2016, 06:58:01 PM »
I strongly suspect that the problems with her "smothering" mother and the church family that put her out was probably because she didn't want to follow the house rules. I would give her a definite date that she has to be out. Someone suggested 11/15; that sounds reasonable. It gives her time to find another situation and gives you time to plan your holidays without her being a thorn in your side.

I really do think you should call her mother and the family that she stayed with. I think it will be enlightening. And of course come back here and tell us what you learn. :)

I will offer the other side of the coin - maybe Cammie actually does come from a dysfunctional family/church situation and that is part of why she is acting so inappropriately in this case. This is a chance for Cammie to see how a reasonable adult sets boundaries - it's not a lesson she is likely to enjoy but it sounds like one she needs.




SamiHami

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Re: How can DD18 tell her houseguest "That won't work for me"?
« Reply #41 on: November 02, 2016, 06:58:42 PM »
Oh, this is rich. She is summoning you to a meeting to discuss how you screwed up her plans?

I think this may turn out to be a valuable lesson for Cammie. So far it appears she has bulldozed her way through life because no one would stand up to her. But, at 18, there is still hope for her. She can still mature into a reasonable person. She might just be one of those people who have to learn the hard way that you can't always get what you want.

You are setting a wonderful example for your daughter. Keep strong and don't let Cammie run over you!

What have you got? Is it food? Is it for me? I want it whatever it is!

SamiHami

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Re: How can DD18 tell her houseguest "That won't work for me"?
« Reply #42 on: November 02, 2016, 07:00:46 PM »
I strongly suspect that the problems with her "smothering" mother and the church family that put her out was probably because she didn't want to follow the house rules. I would give her a definite date that she has to be out. Someone suggested 11/15; that sounds reasonable. It gives her time to find another situation and gives you time to plan your holidays without her being a thorn in your side.

I really do think you should call her mother and the family that she stayed with. I think it will be enlightening. And of course come back here and tell us what you learn. :)

I will offer the other side of the coin - maybe Cammie actually does come from a dysfunctional family/church situation and that is part of why she is acting so inappropriately in this case. This is a chance for Cammie to see how a reasonable adult sets boundaries - it's not a lesson she is likely to enjoy but it sounds like one she needs.

You may well be right. Whatever the cause, her behavior is inappropriate and this will likely be a good lesson for her.

What have you got? Is it food? Is it for me? I want it whatever it is!

guihong

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Re: How can DD18 tell her houseguest "That won't work for me"?
« Reply #43 on: November 02, 2016, 07:33:56 PM »
Hi, all:

Well, as I said, DD, Cammie and I all went out for a bite.  I actually did feel something like a naughty child summoned to the principal, but I stiffened the spine well :).

I told Cammie that #1: Road trip not happening.  #2: Move to NC not happening-unless after Japan, if even then.   Full stop, that's it. 

Cammie asked for reasons why not, and before I started to JADE, I said, "I have told both DD and you why not, several times.  This is not a decision I have to justify.  The answer is no."

Then Cammie said she wished I was more supportive of DD, instead of always asking questions or throwing out the negatives for any idea, that I should encourage her plans  :o  >:(.  I told her, "Playing Devil's Advocate is my job as a parent".  I must have been starting to bristle up, because DD interjected "Momma, take a drink of Coke"  ;D.

I asked Cammie what her plans had been for housing if DD hadn't been in the picture, and of course she said "I would have figured it out by then".

Cammie rode home in silence, then went straight to bed-in DD's bed.  DD is sleeping on the couch, in her own home?  Cammie's pretty angry at me, and at DD for not fighting back. 

DD and I went for a walk where she thanked me, reassured me she wasn't angry but relieved (even if she wanted to go on an adventure-to which I pointed out there's a "right" way to have an adventure).  She did say I was kind of blunt, but it's OK because "you're still learning this assertiveness stuff"  ;D.

I don't really care if Cammie is angry with me-maybe it will spur her to get going.  Turns out she has a relative in the city where her college is, so she wouldn't be homeless.  I wish I'd known that before.

So, I think all went well :).  Thank you!



« Last Edit: November 02, 2016, 07:35:47 PM by guihong »



SamiHami

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That's great! It sounds like you handled that really well. Did you mention finding a job and a move out date?

What have you got? Is it food? Is it for me? I want it whatever it is!